Tamiya 1:48 Spit Mk 1

[Welsh Bloke]

Hi gents,

 

I'm after a bit of advice, especially from anyone who's made Tamiya's fantastic new 1:48 Spit Mk 1.

 

Step 1 of the instructions requires you to drill two holes through the right hand engine cowling but for the life of me I can't find anywhere in the instructions where these holes are used. I've recently returned to modelling after 30 odd years so obviously not an experienced modeller and this may well be a stupid question. Does anyone have any idea what these holes are for? I don't really want to drill holes if there's no need to.

 

Thanks,

 

WB

[Seawinder]

One of the holes - the rear one - was simply a hole, and if you check the decal placement drawing on the last page of the instructions, you'll see there's a stencil that goes just underneath it. I don't know/remember what that hole was for; I'm sure others will know. As for the forward hole, that's a bit puzzling to me. The Airfix Mk. I kit doesn't have it at all, and I don't see it in the few photos I have of Mk. I's from the starboard side. Again, hopefully someone with more expertise than I will have more to offer.

[Welsh Bloke]

Thanks mate. Now I just have to worry about using PE parts. Never experienced them before.

 

Cheers

[Rolls-Royce]

IIRC, the rear hole was a hand-cranking point for when there was no electrical cart available for engine start, and the forward hole had a small-diameter drain tube. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Rolls-Royce

[Crimea River]

Correct. Here's a reference pic:

 

 

Note also that the ground starter plug cover moulded into the port wing fairing should not be there. The ground starter is actually located near the wing leading junction with the fuselage, the black opening that you see in the above pic.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Crimea River

[gingerbob]

Are you sure about the wing root one?  It isn't to start the engine, but to provide power to other systems, for maintenance etc.  I have NOT checked whether it was not yet there on Mk Is- I just assumed that it was always there on Spits.

 

EDIT: Hmm, I wonder if this is it:

     Mod 154 "To provide for ground connection to general electrical system to facilitate ground testing of TR.1133".  The ledger says Mk I & II, first discussed 10 Nov 39, leaflet action (can't read the details) Jul-Sep '40,  "Cleared" [whatever that means] 11 Nov 40.

Edited September 21, 2020 by gingerbob

[Ray_W]

Hi Bob,

 

Interesting point you have raised.

 

I removed the port wing root grounding socket on my latest Eduard 1/48 Mk I after reading the oft quoted modeller's view that it should be so. I did not just leave it to this. I started searching for an image of a Mk. I with the grounding socket and having reviewed many of the available net images and I still have not found one. 

 

For example:

 

 

Note there is no grounding socket which should be in the wing root fairing below the forward part of the "V". If it is there, then it is not obvious. I like this image as the panel line demarcation does show clearly suggesting if there was a well used grounding socket then it should also be seen.

 

It is the HF radio installation, as evident by the triangle on the mast and the aerial wire to the fin, so it is not a VHF TR1133 installation. Also note no fuselage insulator in the roundel as used with the later IFF installation. In this case a simple pip/squeak being used through the HF set.

 

I did find an image of the Australian War Memorial Mk IIa survivor with socket and also VHF radio installation. P7973 is relatively early production so my guess is a modification based on your findings to suit the TR. 1133 set. I cannot see the IFF wire but the insulator location is visible in the roundel red. The colour scheme is post December 1940 so it would fit well with any grounding mods per your information coming into effect November 1940.

 

 

 

I am still confident of no grounding socket for my representation of an August 1940 HF equipped Mk Ia, but will continue searching for the elusive photos. 

 

So for the OP @Welsh Bloke,  maybe no need to worry. It all can get a little bewildering building Spitfires with so many variations and nuances. All that can come later. You can pick no better start than building an out of the box new tool Tamiya Spitfire. Drill the couple of holes they request and finish. It is a delight and looks gorgeous.  

 

Ray

Edited September 21, 2020 by Ray_W
Typo

[Crimea River]

5 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Are you sure about the wing root one?  It isn't to start the engine, but to provide power to other systems, for maintenance etc.  I have NOT checked whether it was not yet there on Mk Is- I just assumed that it was always there on Spits.

 

EDIT: Hmm, I wonder if this is it:

     Mod 154 "To provide for ground connection to general electrical system to facilitate ground testing of TR.1133".  The ledger says Mk I & II, first discussed 10 Nov 39, leaflet action (can't read the details) Jul-Sep '40,  "Cleared" [whatever that means] 11 Nov 40.

No, I'm not sure Bob but am only passing on what I've been told by some who know much more than me. Here are some pics with ground power connected:

 

 

Restored N3200:

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Crimea River

[gingerbob]

Thanks Ray, and "Crimea".  Just to be clear, I wasn't "arguing", it's just that I'd seen such a comment quite recently, and put it on the mental list of things to check out.  Note that the mod says "to provide for", which doesn't necessarily mean that it is ready to "plug and play".  The mod is "Class 2", by the way, if that means anything to anyone.

 

The plug-in on the cowl is, as far as I can gather, strictly for engine starting (if it powered the electrical system, they wouldn't need another socket, would they?) and I don't think that the wing-root socket could be used to start the engine (remember that not all versions used electric start, the Mk II being the most relevant example).

 

bob

[Ray_W]

28 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

Thanks Ray, and "Crimea".  Just to be clear, I wasn't "arguing", it's just that I'd seen such a comment quite recently, and put it on the mental list of things to check out.  Note that the mod says "to provide for", which doesn't necessarily mean that it is ready to "plug and play".  The mod is "Class 2", by the way, if that means anything to anyone.

 

The plug-in on the cowl is, as far as I can gather, strictly for engine starting (if it powered the electrical system, they wouldn't need another socket, would they?) and I don't think that the wing-root socket could be used to start the engine (remember that not all versions used electric start, the Mk II being the most relevant example).

 

bob

Hi Bob,

 

I didn't think you were arguing. It is a worthwhile challenge and one I had already given myself and why I was hunting for pictures before I modified my kit, which I did. I did not think it was for engine starting as you have rightly pointed out. Your extra information though has aroused my interest.

 

My edit with a little more info, it's called the "Electrical & Radio Socket". 

 

Ray 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Ray_W
More info

[gingerbob]

And likewise more info- having found "The Spitfire V Manual" on the second attempt- in the bookshelf that I thought it was in to begin with!

 

Section 10 (Electrical) paragraph 2: ... "A 3-pin socket is mounted on the port side of the fuselage aft to frame 11, under the fillet, for testing the electrical services or radio installation.  A door cut in the fillet gives access to the socket."

 

Further in the chapter it mentions that the "A.R.I. 5000" (IFF, cheese-cutter style) is used with the TR9D in addition to subsequent radios.

 

Incidentally, in relation to the question that's come up a few times [not in this thread] about where the voltage regulator was, the original Mk I manual said that the generator had "full charge", "half charge", and... umm, must have been something like "off" settings, and that the pilot should switch to half charge when voltage reached [some particular voltage].  A later revision added the information about the voltage regulator.  I was trying to be lazy, but now I feel like I need to look that up again, to see if the original mention said anything about where the regulator was mounted.  I'll be back eventually- watch this space!

[Ray_W]

Thanks Bob, all my references are on the other side of the planet makes it difficult to go to where there will be the answers.

3 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

Further in the chapter it mentions that the "A.R.I. 5000" (IFF, cheese-cutter style) is used with the TR9D in addition to subsequent radios.

Also thanks for the clarification on this. 

 

Ray

 

[Crimea River]

I too didn't take it as arguing Bob - all part of discovery and learning I'd say!

 

FWIW, I have an early de Havilland drawing office manual that describes the mod classification system. If these mod designators are the same as for Spitfires, then a Class 2 mod is defined as an "Important Operational Requirement" and the service is to be done "As soon as mod sets can be made available" if done in the field and "Compulsory as soon as parts are available. Existing parts to be modified or replaced" if caught at the factory.

 

Andy

Edited September 21, 2020 by Crimea River

[gingerbob]

I'd love to see the full class list, if convenient.  I think that they changed a time or two, but frankly I haven't considered that "essential information".  Foolish of me, I know!  (What difference does it make?... until it makes a difference when trying to figure something out!)

[Crimea River]

3 hours ago, gingerbob said:

I'd love to see the full class list, if convenient.  I think that they changed a time or two, but frankly I haven't considered that "essential information".  Foolish of me, I know!  (What difference does it make?... until it makes a difference when trying to figure something out!)

It's on the 20th page of this pdf dcument: http://vhjet.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/DHA-Drawing-Office-Handbook-OCR.pdf

Edited September 21, 2020 by Crimea River

[Peter Roberts]

The rear most hole in the cowling is for "Hand Turning Gear For Maintenance Only" and has info on the little plaque beneath it about how to go about this - the 'erk' needs to be lashed to the u/c leg to stop him falling into the prop (! - love that OH&S  ) I believe the handle used for this maybe mounted in the cockpit behind the pilots seat (?).

 

Not really seeing that forward hole in photos - ?

Edited September 21, 2020 by Peter Roberts

[Rolls-Royce]

Pages 9 and 10 of the Wingleader Photo Archive Number 1 have period (4 May 1939) photos of the same early Mark I of 19 Squadron that showed the hole, mainly, I believe, because it's in an area of Dark Earth and therefore stands out somewhat against the background.