Spitfire Mk.X - which 1/48 kit to start from?

[mark.au]

Hi all;

 

I tried the search and found a very informative thread about the aircraft, but I couldn’t find anywhere a recommendation for which kit to start from?  Can I get there from a Mk.IX or is there a better route?

 

Thanks.

[Boman]

Spitfire X? That's a rare one for sure with only 16 being buildt 

From Wiki: 
"When development started on new Merlin 60 powered Spitfires, both the Mk VII and VIII were to have photo-reconnaissance (PR) variants. On 21 April 1942, an order was placed for 70 aircraft, provisionally designated PR Mk VIII. Based on the revised MK VIII airframe these aircraft were to be powered by Merlin 61s and were assigned serial numbers LV643–681 and LV726-756. The Spitfires bearing these serials were eventually built as Merlin 66 LF Mk VIIIs.[45]

A policy change resulted in the pressurised PR variant of the Mk VII being renamed PR Mk X (type 387). This version followed the PR Mk XI into production and was based on the Mk VII airframe with PR Mk XI wings and camera installation. It had the pressurised Mk VII cockpit, with the Lobelle sliding canopy, and retained the fighter style windscreen with the bullet-proof glass panel. The long thin air intake to the cockpit pressurisation system was fitted under the exhaust stacks on the starboard cowling. The performance was similar to that of the PR XI although the pressurised cockpit meant that this version could stay at altitudes of over 40,000 ft for longer without the exhausting physiological effects experienced by the pilots of unpressurised cockpits.[46] Sixteen Mk Xs were built during April and May 1944, with the first mission being flown on 11 May. All saw limited service in 541 Squadron and 542 Squadron for high altitude reconnaissance. Experience with this version led to the development and production of the pressurised version of the PR Mk XIX.[47]"

 

ICM's Spitfire Mk VII should be a good starting point for a X, alternatively you can use the IX for an XI 

 

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, mark.au said:

Can I get there from a Mk.IX or is there a better route?

you specifically want a PR X?  as stated above, they are a rare version.

it is basically a Spitfire VII pressurised fighter fuselage married to the "D" or PR bowser wing

2 hours ago, Boman said:

ICM's Spitfire Mk VII should be a good starting point for a X

not really. ICM kits are all basically the same,  as such the VII lacks the specific VII features,  as in pressurised cockpit and Lobelle canopy.

3 hours ago, Boman said:

alternatively you can use the IX for an XI

again, much discussed. 

depends on how much work you want to do,  and what kits you have. 

You could start with a IX, and add the PR parts, or start with a PX XIX, and the Merlin parts....

 

@mark.au  

The question is a bit vague.  I'll work on giving some  answers. 

The only 1/48th kit that is specifically a PR variant is the Airfix XIX.

 

This is a good basis for a PR X as it has the pressurised cockpit and the boswer PR wing, with fuselage camera ports.   This is the only kit with these parts.

 

OK, here's a PR X

you would need to add a Merlin 60 nose and underwing radiators, a fighter windscreen, and cut back the fin leading edge and the rudder horn. (other will suggest a full tail transplant,  but then you need to match up a tail) and rear part of the XIX rudder is the same as shown above.

 

How you get these bits depends on what is available and your budget.   The best Merlin 60 kits are the Eduard.

But if you have spare or can find them, the Eduard kit has alternate upper and lower cowling parts,  the ICM kit has spare cowling sides.  Various kits have alternate windscreens, eg the Airfix V has fighter windscreens with both external and internal armour glass, you need a internal armour glass.

The radiators can probably be cut down.  You need 5 spoke hubs, but the Eduard kit has 3 types in all boxings, so easy to source new hubs.

 

You need a deeper cowling, as this had a bigger oil tank, and this can be got from a Quickboost set.  They do conversion parts for a PR XI

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/QB48192

they also do camera parts

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/QB48146

 

If you went the bitsa cowl route, you need a 4 blade prop, Ultracast do a very good one. 

 

Again,  some this will depend on what you want to spend and what you can get, and what you might want to do with leftover parts.

 

 

If you mean a PR XI,  most of the above applies,  though they do not have a pressurised cockpit

 

see here for more, and note the links

 

Ask for clarification if the above does not make sense, or you want more 'recipe' ideas from what kits you can get.

 

HTH

[mark.au]

20 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

...you specifically want a PR X?  as stated above, they are a rare version.

 

 ...if the above does not make sense, or you want more 'recipe' ideas from what kits you can get.

 

HTH

The Mk.X is the go, its rarity being the attraction.  Nonetheless, @Troy Smith just wow, thanks for taking the time to put that all together.  It makes sense right now, I’ll take some time to digest and review everything and if any other questions come to mind I’ll shout out.

 

@Boman thanks also.

 

 

[At Sea]

I built my 1/48 VII using and Eduard VIII kit & a scratch built compressor intake made from the un used clipped wing tip cover.  

I see no reason why this couldn't make a X with the wing from an Eduard Spitfire I as a basis for a D wing.

 

The resulting C wing and MkI fuselage would be  a good jumping off point for a Vc if you were so inclined. 

 

[Bruce Archer]

On 9/20/2020 at 4:10 AM, mark.au said:

Hi all;

 

I tried the search and found a very informative thread about the aircraft, but I couldn’t find anywhere a recommendation for which kit to start from?  Can I get there from a Mk.IX or is there a better route?

 

Thanks.

Hi!

   There was an Airwaves conversion set for the Mk.X. But if you cannot find one here is what you will need to do to a 2-Stage Merlin Spitfire:

You will need the front and rear pressure bulkhead

Modify the canopy opening and rails to fit a LoBelle hood ( Falcon has a vacufomed one)

Remove the cockpit door opening, the Mk.X did not have one

Add the pressurization intake on the starboard side

Add the Mk.XII rudder, enlarged elevators, shorter ailerons

Add the Mk.XII style carb intake or the AeroVee intake

"Bowser" wing

Underside camera ports, check to see if the a/c had an obique camera

Add deepened lower cowl

Retractable tail wheel

 

I think that is it. I did one 5+ years ago from an ICM kit

 

Bruce

[Troy Smith]

7 hours ago, At Sea said:

I see no reason why this couldn't make a X with the wing from an Eduard Spitfire I as a basis for a D wing.

I'd be interested to know the logic of converting an A wing over a C/E wing to the bowser wing.  

The A wing lacks the correct radiator set up, and the UC doors and UC leg rake are different.  You still have a load of panel lines to fill and some to rescribe.

Problem with using the Eduard kits,  is you will destroy a load of the rivet detail,  and then you either eliminate it all, or reinstate it.

While making a Mk.VII out of an Mk.VIII is easy enough,  the BIG difference is the bowser wing.

Making a bowser wing is not that hard, but is a fair amount of work,  as i lined, there are Quickboost conversion parts,  but there are the costs of these various parts soon add up. 

 

2 hours ago, Bruce Archer said:

There was an Airwaves conversion set for the Mk.X. But if you cannot find one here is what you will need to do to a 2-Stage Merlin Spitfire:

You will need the front and rear pressure bulkhead

Modify the canopy opening and rails to fit a LoBelle hood ( Falcon has a vacufomed one)

Remove the cockpit door opening, the Mk.X did not have one

Add the pressurization intake on the starboard side

Add the Mk.XII rudder, enlarged elevators, shorter ailerons

The Peter Cooke XIV/XIX planes show the bowser wing has full span ailerons, this PR.XI  has full span ailerons

2 hours ago, Bruce Archer said:

Add the Mk.XII style carb intake or the AeroVee intake

"Bowser" wing

Underside camera ports, check to see if the a/c had an obique camera

Add deepened lower cowl

Retractable tail wheel

 

Comparison with starting with a PR XIX, which has the bowser wing, camera ports, cameras and pressurised cockpit bulkheads and canopies and relevant PR parts.  

 

Add suitable Merlin 60 nose and prop, with a deeper chin,  reshape fin and rudder horn,  Merlin 60 series underwing radiators,  fighter windscreen, 5 spoke hubs.

 

I'd suggest that was less work than other options suggested.

 

I'm not saying the other options are 'wrong' or I am 'right' , just suggesting what AFAIK is the base kit with most relevant parts, which is the PR XIX,  and that makes for less work/expense.

 

@mark.au

I'd need to check the details, which what you'd be buying them for,  but a possible 'cheap' source in Australia of a Merlin 60 nose/prop/rads maybe the old Otaki/Arii Mk.VIII kit,  which AFAIK is still available from Japan pretty cheaply.  

Another would be the Hasegawa Mk.IX, which has a undersize rear fuselage. 

The hase spinner is bit too long.

The ICM kit was the best Merlin 60 kit overall until the Eduard kit came out, but  this has a too narrow upper cowling and undersized spinner and chunky prop blades,  no separate wheel hubs,  so it's not the best donor for parts to add to the XIX kit.

 

Aeroclub did do a complete Merlin 60 nose with prop,  and also a deep PR undercowl, which may turn up on the secondhand market.

 

HTH

[At Sea]

^^ Regarding the Mk1 bowser wing.

 

I meant using the wing tops only, fill the ejection holes and remove the cannon stub on the lower wing.  Writing is harder then thinking sometimes! 🙂

[mark.au]

14 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

@mark.au

I'd need to check the details, which what you'd be buying them for,  but a possible 'cheap' source in Australia of a Merlin 60 nose/prop/rads maybe the old Otaki/Arii Mk.VIII kit,  which AFAIK is still available from Japan pretty cheaply.  

Another would be the Hasegawa Mk.IX, which has a undersize rear fuselage. 

The hase spinner is bit too long.

The ICM kit was the best Merlin 60 kit overall until the Eduard kit came out, but  this has a too narrow upper cowling and undersized spinner and chunky prop blades,  no separate wheel hubs,  so it's not the best donor for parts to add to the XIX kit.

 

Aeroclub did do a complete Merlin 60 nose with prop,  and also a deep PR undercowl, which may turn up on the secondhand market

Mate, thanks again.  Lots of options.  Here’s an ICM Mk.VII I built some years ago;

 

...so familiarity led me down that path.  I’m gathering a kit, some wheels, a canopy, lower cowl for the deep chin, references for the Bowser Wing, Quick Boost photo hatches and various wing bulges...  what else?  Oh yes, some modelling skills to try and wrangle all that together plus some re-scribing and scratch building for the various bits to create the bulkheads and canopy rails.  I may well look at a spinner and prop too, depending on the kit parts’ quality.

 

I also found this on Hyperscale, which should help with the fuselage edits (Bob Swaddling’s reputation was pretty solid on Spits back in the day).

Thanks again.

 

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, mark.au said:

I’m gathering a kit,

If you going down the "converting a Mk.VIII" route,  get an Eduard weekend or overtree Mk.VIII,  as this really is a significant improvement over the ICM kit.  I'll get in touch about the bowser wing.

 

[mark.au]

20 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

If you going down the "converting a Mk.VIII" route,  get an Eduard weekend or overtree Mk.VIII,  as this really is a significant improvement over the ICM kit.  I'll get in touch about the bowser wing.

 

Just noticed that you wrote ICM Mk.VIII. I thought the Mk.VII would be the better jump off point, though it might be moot re ICM kits anyway, as you've pointed out above.

 

Thanks for the email, reply sent.

 

Cheers;

Mark.

[Jim Kiker]

Hi all,

 

As ever this is a fascinating thread involving my own Spitfire faves.  For the conversion I did to make a Spit PR XI, I chose to start with an Airfix PR XIX  which in my view gives you about 75% of the work done, especially the cameras and the unique Bowser wing.  I added a Merlin nose, lower larger cowling panel (greater oil capacity), changed out the oil/coolant radiators, reshaped the vertical tail and added a resin rudder. Thus:

 

 

To show off the mods, here is a pre-paint view.

 

 

It should be noted that you can find pictures of PR XI's with the side oblique window in place but painted over (as seen here), others with the window unpainted, and some with a solid hatch.  This panel was swapped out based on operational requirements.  All of our precious photos represent moments in time and a/c configurations change over time.

 

Hope this helps and cheers, Jim

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Jim Kiker

[Troy Smith]

8 minutes ago, Jim Kiker said:

I added a Merlin nose,

what source did you use for the nose? (and i assume rads)

lovely bit of work as well

[Jim Kiker]

Thanks Troy,

 

I appreciate the kudo and I thought you'd like it.  The nose is actually one of John Adam's Spitfire Mk XVI sets.  The thick plastic gave me plenty of room for sanding to match the contours to the Airfix parts. For the radiators, I think they were spares from ICM.  I used the kit pieces to shape new flat flanges from .015" plastic sheet that go into the inset mounts in the wing.  Then, I cut the flanges off the ICM baths.  And the trick- I set the ICM baths on top of the kit radiator faces (which are a lot deeper than the Mk IX radiators).  I marked off the excess height, then cut the kit baths down, fitted them, then mounted the new pieces in place.

 

I had the great good luck to show John the finished model at Telford last year.  "Hhmm," he said.  "Looks like my Mk XVI set."  He was quite pleased with it and who could ask for more?

 

HTH, Jim

[mark.au]

On 9/25/2020 at 7:23 AM, Jim Kiker said:

Thanks Troy,

 

I appreciate the kudo and I thought you'd like it.  The nose is actually one of John Adam's Spitfire Mk XVI sets.  The thick plastic gave me plenty of room for sanding to match the contours to the Airfix parts. For the radiators, I think they were spares from ICM.  I used the kit pieces to shape new flat flanges from .015" plastic sheet that go into the inset mounts in the wing.  Then, I cut the flanges off the ICM baths.  And the trick- I set the ICM baths on top of the kit radiator faces (which are a lot deeper than the Mk IX radiators).  I marked off the excess height, then cut the kit baths down, fitted them, then mounted the new pieces in place.

 

I had the great good luck to show John the finished model at Telford last year.  "Hhmm," he said.  "Looks like my Mk XVI set."  He was quite pleased with it and who could ask for more?

 

HTH, Jim

Thanks for the input Jim, I only just noticed this reply, apologies for the delay in response.

[mark.au]

...And a question; the PR X did not have wing cameras, I believe.  Is this correct?

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, mark.au said:

...And a question; the PR X did not have wing cameras, I believe.  Is this correct?

I think the bowser wing had had provision for cameras.  but looking at the PR XIX plans, I can't any mention of them.

AFAIK, the wing cameras were for low level use, and both the PR .X and PR.XIX were for high altitude use,  so, I expect no wing cameras.

A quick look at Spitfire- the History, confirms the bowser wing could befitted with cameras, but these were 5 inch depth, as opposed to the much longer fuselage mounted ones.

[mark.au]

Thanks Troy. 

 

I'll trawl through the Record of Events and check if any sorties for my subject were at 5" focal length, otherwise no need for them on my model.