Is Mr Hobby aqueous rlm74 an rlm75 accurate?

[Walter]

For those that have been around this topic far longer than I have, how accurate are this brands 74 and 75?

[Ray_W]

There are many discussions on this subject on Britmodeller alone like this.

 

And many other threads that discuss Gunze as "accurate" such as this:

 

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/201267-which-rlm74/

 

I have never found any that say Gunze is way off in terms of accuracy.

 

You can find comparison of paint samples and colour swatches like this as pinned in the Paint section.

 

 

Anyway, the comparison of colour swatches depending on which Luftwaffe camouflage reference your are using can get very confusing. For example look at the "expert" comparison here. Even allowing for the vagaries of viewing on your PC it does show the different interpretations.  

 

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/luftwaffe/colors.html

 

Often other brands will be suggested based on the "it looks right to me" or "this manufacturer does good research", but if you have already invested in Gunze, then use with confidence. Many do. 

 

Bottom line is all I use are the Mr Hobby Aqueous RLM 74 and 75 and have never seen any compelling reason to change. I would make one recommendation, stir the pots well particularly that first time to ensure good colour mixing.

 

Ray

[Walter]

Thanks Ray much appreciated. I came across those references earlier today. Mr Hobby is the brand I use. My reason for asking was the little difference in color and shade between these two colours. It's interesting that most literature portrays rlm74 as a green. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Walter

[Graham Boak]

"most"?  Certainly some do, perhaps influenced by the description of it as Graugrun.  However, Ken Merrick described the green tinge as only visible in new paint, and then only if you looked very closely.

 

The worst references in this respect were (to me) the Sq. Signal In Action series on the Bf109 and Fw190, which illustrated these fighters in what appeared to be the RAF Day Fighter scheme.  I'm quite sure that this would have been mentioned somewhere in reports/histories from the British side!

[Ray_W]

 

 

12 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Certainly some do, perhaps influenced by the description of it as Graugrun.  However, Ken Merrick described the green tinge as only visible in new paint, and then only if you looked very closely.

This is an interesting point from Graham. I note in some light the Mr Hobby Aqueous has the slightest of green tinges but it usually just looks grey. If I was with my collection I could take some nice photos to illustrate my point. Hunting through my records here this is all I have with me.

 

 

Ray

 

 

[Duncan B]

I like Mr Hobby's RLM74, 75 and 76. I'm not so keen on their RLM8x, 70, 71, 65 and RLM78 though.

 

Duncan B

[Vlad]

5 hours ago, Walter said:

Thanks Ray much appreciated. I came across those references earlier today. Mr Hobby is the brand I use. My reason for asking was the little difference in color and shade between these two colours. It's interesting that most literature portrays rlm74 as a green. 

The 74/75 scheme is supposed to be low contrast. The extent to which 74 appears green is, as Graham said, related to the freshness of the paint and proximity of the observer. Presumably any attempt at RLM 74 model paint that tries to capture this very subtle green-ness can end up looking too green on a model, due to a sort of "scale effect" that we are usually observing the freshly painted item in artificial light at close range. I have grappled with this conflict of perception with my own chosen brand for these colours (Xtracrylix).

[Walter]

21 hours ago, Vlad said:

The 74/75 scheme is supposed to be low contrast. The extent to which 74 appears green is, as Graham said, related to the freshness of the paint and proximity of the observer. Presumably any attempt at RLM 74 model paint that tries to capture this very subtle green-ness can end up looking too green on a model, due to a sort of "scale effect" that we are usually observing the freshly painted item in artificial light at close range. I have grappled with this conflict of perception with my own chosen brand for these colours (Xtracrylix).

Yes I have to agree with you. I was using the lady bit of 74 and had to stop because it wasn't spraying well at all. I'm sure a fresh pot will make all the difference. 

[Holzhamer]

I also use Gunze acrylics for the day fighter scheme for ages. I noticed a slight change in the 74 hue when I purchased my batch of that colour, early 2019 I believe. It now has a slight greenish hue, similar (but not that much greener) to the same color made by MRP. My old jars painted a much more dark grey.

[antonio argudo]

here is a comparison of Gunze over some relics I have, RLM 74 from a bf109 flap 

 

 

 

 

[antonio argudo]

fw190 A6  relic, Gunze RLM 75, also found that H331 Dark sea grey is a perfect match, cheers

 

[Rolls-Royce]

It's just my opinion, but color matching to the surface of a 75-80 year old relic is somewhat fraught with uncertainty. One never quite knows how much weathering and color shifting has taken place over the decades.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Rolls-Royce

[Werdna]

52 minutes ago, Rolls-Royce said:

It's just my opinion, but color matching to the surface of a 75-80 year old relic is somewhat fraught with uncertainty. One never quite knows how much weathering and color shifting has taken place over the decades.

 

Not to mention various pictures of other 'relics' all seemingly painted with apparently different shades of RLM75...  

[antonio argudo]

2 hours ago, Rolls-Royce said:

It's just my opinion, but color matching to the surface of a 75-80 year old relic is somewhat fraught with uncertainty. One never quite knows how much weathering and color shifting has taken place over the decades.

 

1 hour ago, Werdna said:

 

Not to mention various pictures of other 'relics' all seemingly painted with apparently different shades of RLM75...  

 

 

so you tell me how you know the color was? do you image it? do you trust a paint brand blindly is correct?  studying relics is the best way to get the color because it is "the real thing", obviously some relics are  better preserved than others,  I have collected various relics from different aircrafts and in all of them the color shade is exactly the same  and the preservation state is quite good, also they matched the Monogram book quite well if you want extra support  to confirm, cheers

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by antonio argudo

[antonio argudo]

some matches with the monogram book  RLM 02,  100% match

 

[antonio argudo]

RLM 76 

[antonio argudo]

RLM 70 from a He111 relic I have

Edited May 9, 2021 by antonio argudo

[tank152]

2 hours ago, Rolls-Royce said:

It's just my opinion, but color matching to the surface of a 75-80 year old relic is somewhat fraught with uncertainty. One never quite knows how much weathering and color shifting has taken place over the decades.

Which is only what Jerry Crandall would do who you had earlier recommended to ask until you'd edited your post!

1 hour ago, Werdna said:

 

Not to mention various pictures of other 'relics' all seemingly painted with apparently different shades of RLM75...  

Have you got prove of that? I don't mean photos I mean actual parts, to back yourself up. If not then you don't bring anything of use to the table.

RLM 75 never varied that much along with RLM74. 

RLM76 is of course a different matter.

[Rolls-Royce]

7 minutes ago, tank152 said:

Which is only what Jerry Crandall would do who you had earlier recommended to ask until you'd edited your post!

 

Actually, I never mentioned him in this thread at all, only in another when someone asked when the "not a bomb" label was first applied to German drop tanks...

[Rolls-Royce]

See here: 

 

[Werdna]

57 minutes ago, tank152 said:

Have you got prove of that? I don't mean photos I mean actual parts, to back yourself up. If not then you don't bring anything of use to the table.

 

I don't own any 'relics', no.  But so what?  I only meant that there are other photos on the internet (some are probably on here as well) which claim to carry RLM75 - none of the shades seem consistent with each other as far as I can tell.  It's a very big 'table' here, Mr Tank - I hope there's room enough for everyone.

 

57 minutes ago, tank152 said:

RLM 75 never varied that much along with RLM74. 

 

You seem to have misunderstood my post.  I never claimed that it did.  But looking at pics of various 'relics', you could be forgiven for thinking that it did.

[Werdna]

2 hours ago, antonio argudo said:

studying relics is the best way to get the color because it is "the real thing",

 

It's certainly likely to give you a good 'approximation' of the original colour, as a starting point perhaps.  But with the caveats that @Rolls-Royce mentioned earlier.  But if you are claiming that the paint you have on your relics is exactly the same now as it was applied some 70+ years ago, then that is going to be more difficult to verify.

[janneman36]

1 hour ago, antonio argudo said:

RLM 70 from a He111 relic I have

 

Nice comparison pictures and thank you for posting since I do have the Monogram book and do use it often!

 

cheers, Jan

[tank152]

1 hour ago, Rolls-Royce said:

Actually, I never mentioned him in this thread at all, only in another when someone asked when the "not a bomb" label was first applied to German drop tanks...

 

1 hour ago, Rolls-Royce said:

See here: 

 

Ah so you did, I knew you'd mentioned him somewhere!

My apologies.

[IanC]

21 minutes ago, janneman36 said:

Nice comparison pictures and thank you for posting since I do have the Monogram book and do use it often!

 

cheers, Jan

 

Yes I have that book too and refer to it fairly often. Good to see the colour chips bear some scrutiny. I'd always assumed it had been superseded by more recent works.