lesthegringo Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Guys, I'm looking at pictures of an interesting Iranian Su-17 scheme and I'm trying to work out if it is two greens, brown and black, or three greens and brown. It looks to me like three greens but I know pictures can deceive. Can anyone clarify? Cheers Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 maybe it would help if you showed which scheme exactly.. , and most likey painted to Iranian standards... Iran only has Su-22s that originally came from Iraq in 1991. They were refurbished and finally put into some service in the later 2000s.... so actually not really Cold War either https://ifpnews.com/irgc-to-equip-su-22-fighter-jets-with-long-range-cruise-missiles https://www.planespotters.net/photo/920866/15-2476-iran-air-force-sukhoi-su-22 https://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran-Revolutionary-Guard-Air-Force/Sukhoi-Su-22UM3K/5309259/L https://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran-Air-Force/Sukhoi-Su-22UM4K/1875204/L https://www.pinterest.com/pin/352336370832256608/ https://www.airteamimages.com/sukhoi-su-17_3-6903_iran---revolutionary-guard-air-force_332542.html https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8180748 I am also quite sure there is a splinter version out there... Modelmaker decals have this one: http://www.modelmaker.com.pl/D48122-Asian-Fitters-Part-I/1559/ will try to find out the respective colors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesthegringo Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 It's the second picture and I claim ignorance due to the fact that I did a Google (other misleading search engines are available) search for 'Iranian Su-17'! It's a nice looking scheme, and the fact it isn't a cold war one explains why they look so pristine Cheers Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Iranian jets are maintained in pristine condition mostly, some great airshow photos here: https://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=82757 no luck so far regarding the colors.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcB Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Les, Perhaps these two pictures will be of some interest.. _MG_9682 _MG_9687 HTH MB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT7567 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 The photos in @exdraken's second and third links look like very similar colors to the US "Asia Minor" scheme worn by Iranian Phantoms, Tomcats, and F-5s (also informally called "spinach and sand"). Those colors are: FS 30140 Brown Special FS 20400 Tan Special FS 34079 Green FS 36622 Light Gray The photos @MarcB posted don't appear to be the same colors, particularly the tan - although the drop tanks seem to be a lighter color, closer to FS 20400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 6 hours ago, CT7567 said: The photos in @exdraken's second and third links look like very similar colors to the US "Asia Minor" scheme worn by Iranian Phantoms, Tomcats, and F-5s (also informally called "spinach and sand"). Those colors are: FS 30140 Brown Special FS 20400 Tan Special FS 34079 Green FS 36622 Light Gray The photos @MarcB posted don't appear to be the same colors, particularly the tan - although the drop tanks seem to be a lighter color, closer to FS 20400. The only linked picture that looks like the Asia Minor scheme is the one at this link: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran-Air-Force/Sukhoi-Su-22UM4K/1875204/L The undersides though are NOT 36622 but looks more like 35622. Later, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesthegringo Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 Thanks guys - now those two pictures have me back thinking it's two tone green, brown and black with a light grey underside. Les 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT7567 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 6 hours ago, e8n2 said: The only linked picture that looks like the Asia Minor scheme is the one at this link: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran-Air-Force/Sukhoi-Su-22UM4K/1875204/L The undersides though are NOT 36622 but looks more like 35622. Later, Dave The photo you linked isn't one of those I referred to, and while I would agree the underside colors in that shot do appear closer to 35622, it isn't the comparison I was making as both the colors and pattern bear little resemblance to Asia Minor. It is clearly a different scheme from these: Planespotters Link #2 ABOVE Airliners Link Photo #3 Above The colors in these two images are, as I stated *similar* to the Asia Minor scheme (I did not say exact matches). Note in particular that the undersides are clearly gray, not a blue/green-gray per your photo above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcB Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 To complete the "walk around" 🙂 _MG_9291 _MG_9295 MB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty84 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Well, looking at this picture I'd say it is not black but a very dark green: https://www.planespotters.net/photo/960769/15-2462-iran-air-force-sukhoi-su-22um3k Quite interesting too, while all the single seaters have the Al-21 engine the double seaters feature the R-29 engine. Cheers Markus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvy5 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 4 hours ago, Shorty84 said: Well, looking at this picture I'd say it is not black but a very dark green: https://www.planespotters.net/photo/960769/15-2462-iran-air-force-sukhoi-su-22um3k Quite interesting too, while all the single seaters have the Al-21 engine the double seaters feature the R-29 engine. Cheers Markus Where did you get the information about the Iranian twin-seater are a powered R-29 engine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, harvy5 said: Where did you get the information about the Iranian twin-seater are a powered R-29 engine? This can be easily seen on the photos, the habe a fatter rear fuselage, and a different u painted rear section. All Iraqi M3 and UM3s were R29 powered, as were Lybuan, Syrian, Peruian and Hungarian Su-22s. Iraq got Su-22M4s also, those are the dingle seaters you know well in the photos above! Not sure if Iraq got Su-22UM3Ks wilth the Al-21 engine at all and if some then made it to Iran! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 17 hours ago, CT7567 said: The photo you linked isn't one of those I referred to, and while I would agree the underside colors in that shot do appear closer to 35622, it isn't the comparison I was making as both the colors and pattern bear little resemblance to Asia Minor. It is clearly a different scheme from these: Planespotters Link #2 ABOVE Airliners Link Photo #3 Above The colors in these two images are, as I stated *similar* to the Asia Minor scheme (I did not say exact matches). Note in particular that the undersides are clearly gray, not a blue/green-gray per your photo above. I would imagine that a number of the newbies that come here know the different colors for the Asia Minor scheme and some may not be all to familiar with the Federal Standard system of colors. Wasn't trying to put you down at all. Later, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesthegringo Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 Great pictures, it really is a different scheme. Frankly, I think the confusion over whether it is black or dark green means I can please myself! Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcB Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 7 hours ago, exdraken said: This can be easily seen on the photos, the habe a fatter rear fuselage, and a different u painted rear section. All Iraqi M3 and UM3s were R29 powered, as were Lybuan, Syrian, Peruian and Hungarian Su-22s. Iraq got Su-22M4s also, those are the dingle seaters you know well in the photos above! Not sure if Iraq got Su-22UM3Ks wilth the Al-21 engine at all and if some then made it to Iran! this photo shows more clearly the different rear fuselages between the single- and two-seaters SU22_2 MB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 They do look classy in that scheme and, no, it bears no relation to any US doctrine scheme/colours in my view). Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotthldr Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 11 hours ago, lesthegringo said: Great pictures, it really is a different scheme. Frankly, I think the confusion over whether it is black or dark green means I can please myself! Les There’s no confusion, it’s Dark Green in that scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 The upper surface has 4 colors: Light green (main color) dark green, brown and a very dark grey/green color. Depends s bit on the light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvy5 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) On 9/21/2020 at 6:25 AM, exdraken said: This can be easily seen on the photos, the habe a fatter rear fuselage, and a different u painted rear section. All Iraqi M3 and UM3s were R29 powered, as were Lybuan, Syrian, Peruian and Hungarian Su-22s. Iraq got Su-22M4s also, those are the dingle seaters you know well in the photos above! Not sure if Iraq got Su-22UM3Ks wilth the Al-21 engine at all and if some then made it to Iran! SRY but it is a mistake! Iraq had a Su-20/22 only with an AL-21 engine. But THX,Su-22UM-3K with R-29 in Iran is new INFO for me. These planes are possible from Syria. Only 60,62 and 67 have R-29 others are with engines AL-21 Edited September 22, 2020 by harvy5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, harvy5 said: SRY but it is a mistake! Iraq had a Su-20/22 only with an AL-21 engine. But THX,Su-22UM-3K with R-29 in Iran is new INFO for me. These planes are possible from Syria. Only 60,62 and 67 have R-29 others are with engines AL-21 Hi Harvy! great to have you here as well! the Fitter Saga continues! it seems! that seem to be Su-22M3s with the R29 engine in Iraq Airforce schemes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iraqi_Su-22_with_Kh-58.jpg https://nara.getarchive.net/media/a-view-of-the-remains-of-an-iraqi-su-22-aircraft-in-a-hangar-destroyed-by-coalition-57ca78 https://www.makettinfo.hu/forum/image.php?img_url=upload%2F201710%2F1564032_82432_IraqSU22M3.jpg https://www.makettinfo.hu/forum/image.php?img_url=upload%2F201710%2F1564032_82410_Iraq_SU22M3.jpg https://www.facebook.com/Armyofiraq/photos/a.629809587086945/1608853575849203/ https://www.makettinfo.hu/forum/image.php?img_url=upload%2F201710%2F1564032_82425_IraqiAFSu22M31.jpg#image_642695 https://www.makettinfo.hu/forum/image.php?img_url=upload%2F201710%2F1564032_82418_Iraq_SU22UM3.jpg#image_642694 https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1891068_620763821324855_2131529895_n.png?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=94anXl6tYF0AX_jwnEZ&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1.xx&oh=f6228aa18121fcfa6abb7195ec510e01&oe=5F90C840 and another great site: http://iraqimilitary.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=76&start=30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvy5 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 Hi Werner! It's a little more complicated.Su-22M-3 with R-29 engine was only for the lack of AL-21 engines in the 70s. More airframes were made for the R-29, but some of them were completed with AL-21 engines.On some have even used the tail section of the fuselage from Su-20!Typical Soviet improvisation. It was these that were delivered to Iraq.It was for better logistics. I have this info from a friend who worked at Komsomolsk-on-Amur,where the Su-17 produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 Hi Harvy, I appeciate your comment on Al-21 engines in R-29 frames! But don't you think there is more to it than just the outer shape? Mounting points, airflow, cooling etc? The Al-21 is also longer and would protrude from the R-29 frame rear section, no? Very strange! Iraq had Su-22M2s as well according to some sources... and regarding logistics, as Iraq operated R29 powered MiG-23s as well, I assume that is not too much of a factor... http://iraqimilitary.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=76&start=15#p1655 apart from that, ! we NEED a R29 powered Su-22 model in 1/48!! and a M2 model with chin pods as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 The size, location (and number..?) of intake scoops around the back end differ between the R29 and AL21 versions. Cheers, Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvy5 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 Hi Werner. But you're only 50% right. The Al-21F-1 engine had the same dimensions and location of the units as the R-29. It had better performance than the R-29, so it was also used on the MiG-23. But because it was the Soviet Union, there were not enough engines. It was decided to use the Al-21 only in Su-17 and Su-24 aircraft. Exports have also been banned. Versions of F-2 for Su-24 and F-3 for Su-17M were longer, had one compressor stage more. The position of the aggregates is also different. I have more details in my archive on Slovakia. I mustto write to my sister to search my archive and send me some things ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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