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Farewell HMS Hermes.....


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13 minutes ago, Viper78 said:

 

I can't find any news on her unfortunately, it's a shame as the dismantler was prepared to sell to a willing buyer.

Pity it would have sat nicely in some ones back garden. First class accommodation for visitors. Play area for kids when it rains

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38 minutes ago, Viper78 said:

 

I can't find any news on her unfortunately, it's a shame as the dismantler was prepared to sell to a willing buyer.

Yes, the silence appears to indicate that the NOC was not forthcoming and she has probably been beached with dismantling underway. 

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If you do look at Alang Road, slide the timeline back to 2004 and look to the west.  Could that be the Brazilian Minas Gerais, ex HMS Vengeance [1945] waiting to be broken up?

 

Mike

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15 hours ago, LaurieS said:

Pity it would have sat nicely in some ones back garden. 

A few years ago when my old Lynx came up for disposal, I did suggest to my wife that we should buy it to go on our front lawn.  Her response cannot be printed in a forum where juniors might be present!

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1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

A few years ago when my old Lynx came up for disposal, I did suggest to my wife that we should buy it to go on our front lawn.  Her response cannot be printed in a forum where juniors might be present!

Oh my dear Chewy that is so sad 😬 Unimaginable.

 

Should have told you wife you would sleep in the Lynx every night that would have swung the balance. What.

 

Laurie

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Personally I would love to see more ships preserved. HMNZS Archilles for example should never have been scrapped. However, as has been pointed out above the cost and practical obstacles are so great that it seems only a very select few will ever be saved. 
 

For us though there is an upside. It makes the importance of our hobby greater. It means that any skillfully made contemporary model will probably become (second only to construction blueprints) the best surviving representation of the vessel. 
 

I think this is especially the case if the model is made by someone with a close association with the ship, in which case the model gains a certain ‘provinence’.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Personally I would love to see more ships preserved. HMNZS Archilles for example should never have been scrapped. However, as has been pointed out above the cost and practical obstacles are so great that it seems only a very select few will ever be saved. 
 

For us though there is an upside. It makes the importance of our hobby greater. It means that any skillfully made contemporary model will probably become (second only to construction blueprints) the best surviving representation of the vessel. 
 

I think this is especially the case if the model is made by someone with a close association with the ship, in which case the model gains a certain ‘provinence’.

 

 

Agree Steve.

 

Live in Jersey & am on the go with a Jersey Airport Diorama of the 50/60s when I arrived in Jersey. 9 passenger planes of that era.

 

As you say you cannot preserve all but you can make sure it is not forgotten.

 

Laurie

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On 10/18/2020 at 11:14 AM, LaurieS said:

. Not realised alot that these ships ,in those days, were made of ordinary mild steel. Give a hint of water & it starts it's rusting.

 

All steel ships are made of mild steel.  The curve of the ductility graph, the tensile strength graph, the weight graph and the cost graph all intersect at fairly common or garden mild steel.

In high wear places on many ships they may use Hardox or stainless but never for structure.

 

As an aside there is a pattern for lifting gear ashore to be supplied as  Grade 10/100 or Grade 12 Master links; which may be marketed as having superior qualities to the established Grade 8/80 material in common use. Whilst is it true that for a given size of item, Grade 10/100 or harder material does have a higher tensile strength and correlating steel hardness, it also has lower ductility and is more prone to brittle fracture and failure under shock load than Grade 8/80 material.

 

Grade 10/100 or harder material is also more susceptible to the phenomenon of ‘Hydrogen embrittlement’ whereby over time, hydrogen is absorbed into the steel from the environment in which the material is used, causing the material to become more brittle and susceptible to failure. This condition can be exacerbated when Grade 10/100 or harder material is used in cold climatic conditions or where the material is subject to corrosion such as in the marine environment.

 

Opinion from a range of informed sources believes that whilst Grade 10/100 or harder material is satisfactory for use in controlled industrial environments, correctly produced, handled and maintained Grade 8/80 material provides a superior combination of ductility, tensile strength, and resistance to brittle fracture, more suited to maritime applications, than the higher grade materials now emerging from Lifting Gear manufacturers. 

 

So in short mild steel rusts but is good for all the other things ship's hulls have to do.

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16 hours ago, At Sea said:

All steel ships are made of mild steel.

Technically correct but slightly misleading in your response to a comment about "ordinary mild steel".

To a layman this could imply that ships are built from the same "ordinary mild steel" that is used to make the tin their baked beans came in, whereas in fact ships are built with a multitude of different grades of steel, many of them various grades of high tensile steel.

These specialist steels are required for modern ship design and manufacture to achieve the required structural strength for large vessels on reduced scantlings. 

Because the strength and integrity of the hull depends on using the correct grade of steel it is tightly controlled by classification societies during construction and repair

https://www.shipbuilding-steel.com/Products/

So yes, ships are built from mild steel, but no, it's anything but "ordinary"

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Thanks for clearing that up. My phrase ‘mild steel’ is based on the fact that it’s essentially just ‘steel’ as opposed to stainless etc.

 

Full disclosure:

I’m currently on a ship, as Master.

So not an engineer and certainly not a ship builder!  We do however do rather more than ‘just drive them’ regardless of what the oily chaps downstairs think. 
Interaction with surveyors and Class os a big part of it.

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22 minutes ago, At Sea said:

Thanks for clearing that up. My phrase ‘mild steel’ is based on the fact that it’s essentially just ‘steel’ as opposed to stainless etc.

 

Full disclosure:

I’m currently on a ship, as Master.

So not an engineer and certainly not a ship builder!  We do however do rather more than ‘just drive them’ regardless of what the oily chaps downstairs think. 
Interaction with surveyors and Class os a big part of it.

Do not think you would want stainless steel. Davits S/S on my boat sheared after the dingy filled with water. Steel would bend it's inherent strength.

 

Reinforced concrete steel good in tension concrete in compression. Another way, has been done, to build a boat concrete 7 steel.

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Stainless is only used as a facing. Never as structure.

 

Fairleads on tugs are stainless faced.

 

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36 minutes ago, At Sea said:

Full disclosure:

Retired Chief Engineer ,Container Ships, 38 years at sea, 3 newbuildings, double figures drydockings, numerous repairs. 

Chief Engineers office had a bookcase full of structural drawings including refs to steel spec for each individual plate and certificates for same, my point is there's no such thing as "ordinary" or "just" steel on a ship

Fully aware (and thankful, for the most part) that that the Masters I sailed with did more than "just drive them", though I have to say one or two of the repairs were because they also "bent them" :wicked: :fool:

 

 

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1 hour ago, At Sea said:

Stainless is only used as a facing. Never as structure.

 

Fairleads on tugs are stainless faced.

 

Yes agree having worked in architecture for 50 years & had 5 boats.

 

Your theory is good except when it comes to my davits. They had a major disagreement they tested to distruction broke in half. Both.

 

Which I suppose actually proves your theory but it was a rather expensive & time consuming experiment.

 

Tut I replaced the davits with----- stainless steel types. WAIT  for it. Turned the dinghy upside down before leaving the boat to stop water accumaltion.  Cute idea what :yahoo:

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18 hours ago, LaurieS said:

Do not think you would want stainless steel. Davits S/S on my boat sheared after the dingy filled with water. Steel would bend it's inherent strength.

 

Reinforced concrete steel good in tension concrete in compression. Another way, has been done, to build a boat concrete 7 steel.

Oooh feel a bit of youngs modulus coming on 😂

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As an aside.  Are there any pictures out there of her being beached ??? Or in the process of being reincarnated into razor blades ???
 

Dick

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49 minutes ago, junglierating said:

Oooh feel a bit of youngs modulus coming on 😂

Now Jungle

E = σ/ε

or perhaps you uses

E = 2 G ( 1 + ν ) = 3 K ( 1 − 2 ν )

 

Laurie

 

Actually there is an antidote : a glass of wine or in a worst case a double malt.

 

 

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1 hour ago, LaurieS said:

Now Jungle

E = σ/ε

or perhaps you uses

E = 2 G ( 1 + ν ) = 3 K ( 1 − 2 ν )

 

Laurie

 

Actually there is an antidote : a glass of wine or in a worst case a double malt.

 

 

Rum .

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Its not over yet......the battle to save Viraat has now reached the Bombay High Court with a hearing on November 3rd. A petition has been filed by Envitech Marine Consultants Pvt Ltd working in partnership with the Government of Goa to turn her into a museum ship. I take my hat off to the scrapman, who has not started breaking her up yet.

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I read that the white ensign was lowered for the last time on HMS Bristol on Wednesday just gone, another destined for the scrap yard.

 

Mike

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2 hours ago, Whitewolf said:

Its not over yet......the battle to save Viraat has now reached the Bombay High Court with a hearing on November 3rd. A petition has been filed by Envitech Marine Consultants Pvt Ltd working in partnership with the Government of Goa to turn her into a museum ship. I take my hat off to the scrapman, who has not started breaking her up yet.

 

That's great news, I don't blame the scrappies for holding off breaking her, they are due to more and double the money they paid for her.

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2 hours ago, mick b said:

I read that the white ensign was lowered for the last time on HMS Bristol on Wednesday just gone, another destined for the scrap yard.

 

Mike

It seems to me it's not long ago she underwent a refit to allow her to continue her training role.  I suppose there's no longer any need for an alongside training ship when most of the "frontline" fleet is alongside as well because the Navy can't afford to a. fix (Type 45s) or b. man them (everything).

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2 hours ago, Seahawk said:

It seems to me it's not long ago she underwent a refit to allow her to continue her training role.  I suppose there's no longer any need for an alongside training ship when most of the "frontline" fleet is alongside as well because the Navy can't afford to a. fix (Type 45s) or b. man them (everything).

Well an element of truth in that ...as for the Brizzle if the SCC wont use it then it must be due for the chop.....

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