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Farewell HMS Hermes.....


Whitewolf

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8 minutes ago, Whitewolf said:

It is unclear whether or not she has been beached already, or just moored? 

From what I can tell from the video I posted and from what I've read online, she has been moored rather than beached.

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3 hours ago, Viper78 said:

From what I can tell from the video I posted and from what I've read online, she has been moored rather than beached.

That's good, beaching her then dragging her off would not have done the Hull a lot of good. Lets hope the NOC comes through this week, I gather the next 7 days are critical, with plans to commence dismantling if it doesn't

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14 hours ago, VMA131Marine said:

It should be pointed out by those who say saving ships like this is too difficult that the US has preserved: 4 Essex-class carriers (Intrepid, Lexington, Hornet, and Yorktown), a Midway-class carrier (Midway), all 4 Iowas, 2 South Dakota’s (Alabama and Massachusetts), USS North Carolina, USS Texas, USS Olympia, a Cleveland-class cruiser (USS Little Rock), a medium-size fleet’s worth of destroyers and submarines, as well as two Liberty ships and two Victory ships. It’s still hoped to save the USS John F Kennedy (CV-67).

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museum_ships_of_the_United_States_military

 

It should be pointed out that not all those museums are doing well, or all those ships in good condition. Consider that, perhaps. 

Edited by Asmodai
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4 hours ago, Asmodai said:

It should be pointed out that not all those museums are doing well, or all those ships in good condition. Consider that, perhaps. 

So, because some aren’t doing well it means none can succeed? The US has 8 preserved battleships and 5 preserved aircraft carriers (plus one that could be preserved). Many of them have been in operation as museums for decades. That’s not an argument that preservation is not feasible.

In addition, it’s reasonable to think that none of these preserved ships will last forever.  Age and corrosion will likely get them all eventually, and that’s okay too. Nothing lasts forever, in the meantime people can enjoy them for the history they represent. 

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12 minutes ago, Whitewolf said:

It appears that no NOC has been forthcoming, and the scrap company plans to Beach her at high tide on the 15th. 

 

Yes I saw this last night, very sad especially when there in now a buyer willing to take the ship.

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7 minutes ago, Viper78 said:

 

Yes I saw this last night, very sad especially when there in now a buyer willing to take the ship.

Yes, its very sad. Someone at the centre doesn't want her preserved and has put pressure on to block the NOC. The question has to be asked though, why didn't the guy who wants her, buy her at auction instead of allowing the scrapman to get her in the first place?

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7 hours ago, Whitewolf said:

Yes, its very sad. Someone at the centre doesn't want her preserved and has put pressure on to block the NOC. The question has to be asked though, why didn't the guy who wants her, buy her at auction instead of allowing the scrapman to get her in the first place?

 

I think it's a consortium looking to buy her, it could be that either they were formed after the auction or that they didn't have enough money at the time of the auction. 

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On 10/11/2020 at 6:36 AM, VMA131Marine said:

It should be pointed out by those who say saving ships like this is too difficult that the US has preserved: 4 Essex-class carriers (Intrepid, Lexington, Hornet, and Yorktown), a Midway-class carrier (Midway), all 4 Iowas, 2 South Dakota’s (Alabama and Massachusetts), USS North Carolina, USS Texas, USS Olympia, a Cleveland-class cruiser (USS Little Rock), a medium-size fleet’s worth of destroyers and submarines, as well as two Liberty ships and two Victory ships. It’s still hoped to save the USS John F Kennedy (CV-67).

 

See my previous post there are half a dozen ex gash barges around the UK and doubtless some of those are touch and go ....so saving a little carrier like Hermes which by the way was sold in the early 80s to the IN is way out of the UK small pockets and how many Brits ard going to travel to india to see said rust bucket ...err

Edited by junglierating
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I would have been much happier to have seen HMS Invincible saved.

 

A small very distinct carrier. She was a very happy ship in the Falklands compared to Hermes which was grumpy.

 

One RN ship I would have loved to have been saved was HMS Amethyst a Black Swan Sloop. The reason this boat with its crew went through hell & then extricated itself from the clutches of the Chinese Communists one night to rejoin the fleet.

 

It is an extraordinary story of bravery but most of all absolute determination. This is the story of the Royal Navy at its absolute best.

 

Ggreat Film Yangtse Incident: The Story of H.M.S. AmethystThe Yangste Incident. Very true to the real thing.

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9 hours ago, LaurieS said:

I would have been much happier to have seen HMS Invincible saved.

 

A small very distinct carrier. She was a very happy ship in the Falklands compared to Hermes which was grumpy.

 

One RN ship I would have loved to have been saved was HMS Amethyst a Black Swan Sloop. The reason this boat with its crew went through hell & then extricated itself from the clutches of the Chinese Communists one night to rejoin the fleet.

 

It is an extraordinary story of bravery but most of all absolute determination. This is the story of the Royal Navy at its absolute best.

 

Ggreat Film Yangtse Incident: The Story of H.M.S. AmethystThe Yangste Incident. Very true to the real thing.

 

While Amethyst’s escape down the Yangtze is Boys Own stuff, which was reflected in the movie, it unfortunately doesn’t answer the question of why Amethyst was sent upriver to Nanking at the time she was. That calls into question whether it shows the RN at its best.

 

“Yangtze Showdown. China and the Ordeal of HMS Amethyst” by Brian Izzard published back in 2015 casts light on what led up to it. It was the middle of a civil war, that British diplomats in Nanking acknowledged the Nationalists were losing. There were only formal diplomatic ties with the Nationalist side which occupied only the south side of the Yangtze. Any contacts with the Communists, who held the north side of the river, had to be by the back door. Consort’s replacement at Nanking was not as urgent as claimed at the time. A truce between the Communists and Nationalists was due to end. Intelligence available showed the Communists would try to cross the river immediately following the end of the truce and subsequent investigations as to who knew exactly what and when smack of cover up. Australia had already pulled Shoalhaven from making the trip. Amethyst was the replacement and it was “hoped” she could beat the Communists crossing of the river.

 

Izzard describes Kerans as “the wrong man in the right place” at the time he was needed. His career in the RN in 1949 was not promising and prior to being posted to Nanking had been court martialled and dismissed command of his ship. He was however the only available officer on the spot and managed to rise to the occasion, turning disaster into triumph, so earning himself a promotion much earlier than normal and saving more senior officers further embarrassment.

 

It is a more complicated tale than portrayed in the film. That is not to detract from bravery of those that had to endure those months of hardship stuck on board.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, EwenS said:

 

While Amethyst’s escape down the Yangtze is Boys Own stuff, which was reflected in the movie, it unfortunately doesn’t answer the question of why Amethyst was sent upriver to Nanking at the time she was. That calls into question whether it shows the RN at its best.

 

“Yangtze Showdown. China and the Ordeal of HMS Amethyst” by Brian Izzard published back in 2015 casts light on what led up to it. It was the middle of a civil war, that British diplomats in Nanking acknowledged the Nationalists were losing. There were only formal diplomatic ties with the Nationalist side which occupied only the south side of the Yangtze. Any contacts with the Communists, who held the north side of the river, had to be by the back door. Consort’s replacement at Nanking was not as urgent as claimed at the time. A truce between the Communists and Nationalists was due to end. Intelligence available showed the Communists would try to cross the river immediately following the end of the truce and subsequent investigations as to who knew exactly what and when smack of cover up. Australia had already pulled Shoalhaven from making the trip. Amethyst was the replacement and it was “hoped” she could beat the Communists crossing of the river.

 

Izzard describes Kerans as “the wrong man in the right place” at the time he was needed. His career in the RN in 1949 was not promising and prior to being posted to Nanking had been court martialled and dismissed command of his ship. He was however the only available officer on the spot and managed to rise to the occasion, turning disaster into triumph, so earning himself a promotion much earlier than normal and saving more senior officers further embarrassment.

 

It is a more complicated tale than portrayed in the film. That is not to detract from bravery of those that had to endure those months of hardship stuck on board.

 

 

 

Oh my dear Ewen. Not sure of your age as your profile is bleak. But facts please.

 

Boy's own stuff mmm. Cruel tell that to the families of the 10 dead & 23 wounded. Plus their stress in those families over 3 months to find the out come. Waiting to see what happened to the wounded & those crew still left on the ship.. Plus a RN event to rescue Amethyst resulted in 23 dead. Some boy's own stuff then !

 

The RN was instructed, by Office of the Admiralty and Marine Affairs, the government department,  to take Amethyst up the Yangste to Nanking to relieve HMS Consort which was needed as Consort required urgent maintenance work carried out on her. The RN was in Nanking to protect the Embassy. It was of course unknown how the Chinese Communists would react. But the Royal Navy is there to protect & that is what RN did as said & as required by the Government. The Royal Navy take orders from above.

 

Izzard 2015 come on most on Amethyst were passed on. Where did he get get 50 year old info from. All in the admiralty & officers of Amythest at that time were not with us. Plus as you have quoted his info is sadly incorrect in at least part. Pleased read 3 books published just after the incident. Plus this incident occurred when I was 16. I read all books articles papers about the RN RAF & Army from aged 14.  I read every paper listened to the radio reports about Amethyst. 2015 bit late was it not. I could have given Izzard the facts.

 

Wrong man at the wrong place ha ha.  He turned the ship around on the night of July 30, 1949 and navigated past shoals and sandbanks in darkness to reach safety and then the open sea, 140 miles away. There were Chinese Communists  all along the way with guns on the banks of the Yangste. The ship suffered shell hits, but no casualties. Some Lieutenant Commander some Royal Navy Officer by any standards.

 

Yes he was a bit of a naughty man getting himself in trouble. A number of high up RN officers have been known for that. However oh my he only returned the Amethyst & it's crew to Fleet Duty what more can you ask ? Oh yes awarded the DSO & became Commander in the RN. I would welcome him as my captain any day.

 

Read a bit https://navalinstitute.com.au/lucky-escape-for-amethyst-and-shoalhaven-1949/

 

Laurie

 

 

 

 

Edited by LaurieS
there & their tut
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Oh dear Laurie. The question is why, given the political situation that had been playing out in China for some time, it was felt necessary by those in power, whether in the Foreign Office, the Admiralty or with Admiral Madden in Hong Kong to send any HM warship to Nanking at that particular point in time in the first place.

 

Anyway, as I doubt we will ever see this from the same perspective, time to return to the subject of saving Hermes. That I’m afraid was a cause that was lost a long time ago.

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1 hour ago, bootneck said:

C'mon guys, this is becoming one of the biggest thread drifts/hijacks we've seen in a while.

Yes Mike I am feeling very awful about it. 😬 I will never ever do it again 😄

 

Laurie

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Never underestimate Indian government bureaucracy and their ability to create mountains of paper. Entirely on a different level, but I read about the efforts needed to get Hurricane R4112 out of India. Touch and go all the way.

 

Trevor

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20 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

Never underestimate Indian government bureaucracy and their ability to create mountains of paper. Entirely on a different level, but I read about the efforts needed to get Hurricane R4112 out of India. Touch and go all the way.

 

Trevor

I remember that! It was unbelievable! Viraat was supposed to be beached on the high tide today, but can't find any confirmation of whether or not that has actually occurred?

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12 minutes ago, Whitewolf said:

I remember that! It was unbelievable! Viraat was supposed to be beached on the high tide today, but can't find any confirmation of whether or not that has actually occurred?

 

Hopefully she hasn't yet been beached. If the current owners have a chance of making a hefty profit without doing any work then they might hang on a while longer.

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