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So, I'm undergoing a bit of a modelling renaissance recently. I have been out of the game for a few years with my output being maybe one kit a year? But I've had my interest reawakened after seeing some stuff on YouTube about JASDF, this led to a further investigation and in my usual flurry of impulse kit purchases!  (impulse? there's a pun in there somewhere?) Half of the fun for me is the research and gathering of information and supplies to build the kit I'm currently obsessing over! Japanese subjects Japanese kits so in a departure from my mostly 'nostalgic' use of Humbrol enamels I considered using the kit recommended colours from Mr Color, but, with no local model stores near my home,

(five years ago there was one or two, ten years quite a few over twenty years ago there was over a dozen within half an hour drive! )

I found an online supplier near Stoke on Trent (a few hours away from me) and picked my way through the online goodies, gathered a little over twenty quids worth of stuff in my 'basket', which was mostly paint and proceeded to checkout, opened an account and added payment details and was requested to choose a delivery option, there were just two, one was £9.50 the other £9.95 !! Whhaaaaaa???? is it me or is that just crazy?? I paid about that much to get a kit from the Netherlands! Maybe I'm a little distorted in view with an Amazon Prime membership where delivery is mostly free and next day, but, nearly a tenner postage is just too much!! They make Hannants seem reasonable! Ha!! 

 

So, who's your fave online modelling supplies store, preferably one that carries Mr Color paint!

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2 minutes ago, Kes said:

So, who's your fave online modelling supplies store, preferably one that carries Mr Color paint!

Mines BNA Model World in Australia.

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Depends on the size/weight of your purchase and who they are using and whether or not, like Amazon, they are able to absorb and subsidise postage costs.

 

I usually find shipping a 1/48 boxed kit in a fairly large box, weighing under 1kg door to door to someone in the UK, using Hermes, costs me around £5.  At least it did last time I posted anything, back around the start of the year.   I've got a listing on eBay at the moment for a 1/72 Mig-23UB kit, if that ever sells it'll get shipped door to door via Hermes, when I checked the postage on Hermes' site about 2 months ago, that came to £4.70 to the address in the UK that I used to get a "guestimate".

 

No idea what Royal Mail charge at the moment but I do know that their services they provide like "Signed for" are getting steep in price, I paid around £7 in the last 12 months for an item to be posted "Signed for", and if I recall correctly that was only a letter in an envelope going less than 20 miles down the road from me.

 

Good luck on Gunze paints.  I've been looking recently because I want H72 and H74, most places in the UK that I've looked at online seem to be out of stock of those two from the looks of it.  I know of one online retailer who apparently still has stock, but we have an ideology conflict so I won't give them the time of day, let alone £10 or so for 2 paints.

Edited by RobL
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1 hour ago, RobL said:

 

No idea what Royal Mail charge at the moment but I do know that their services they provide like "Signed for" are getting steep in price, I paid around £7 in the last 12 months for an item to be posted "Signed for", and if I recall correctly that was only a letter in an envelope going less than 20 miles down the road from me.

 

 

I sell regularly on eBay and use Small Parcel Royal Mail 2nd Class Signed for. I've tried Hermes but it was a bit sketchy to more rural locations - 12 days (pre-Covid) to the Isle of Man for example.

 

Cost is £4.10 and the limits are 45 times 35 times 16cm. Max weight 2kg.

 

Great for kits usually BUT you have to be careful with the dimensions.

 

Airfix use a box for some kits that's just too big for this at 46cm long so you're into Medium Parcel territory (why did they do that? The pieces would have fitted into a slightly smaller box!) I got caught out with this recently selling a TSR.2 and had to absorb the excess cost myself.

 

SD

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If your order included any paints, they must be delivered by courier - they CANNOT be sent by normal mail!

They are classified as dangerous items and therefore must not be sent through the post.

There was a change in the postal regulations a few years ago, which reclassified ALL hobby paints (enamel, acrylic & lacquer) and subsequently this has increased delivery charges on orders where paint is included.

 

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies would be able to explain this a lot better than I can as he has to deal with this on a regular basis.

 

John B

 

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Another thing to take into account is that many paints (including Mr Color) are classed as Dangerous Goods and as such legally have to be dispatched with the correct paperwork, packaging and by a surface carrier such as Parcelforce. This is a costly exercise and the cheapest tariff for Parcelforce is around £9.50 before you add the DG costs. I suspect the OP's postage quote was to cover with this.

 

With regards to Amazon, from my point of view as an online retailer they have a lot to answer for (I say this with a degree of tongue firmly in cheek as I am a regular Amazon Prime customer too as well as an online retailer but...). Some people who buy online now have the expectation that every online retailer, regardless of size, should be dispatching for "free" (Amazon Prime is a subscription service and not exactly cheap either) and the goods should be arriving the next day. Clearly comparing a Multinational Corporation's marketing strategy with Joe Bloggs who has a one man operation operating from his garage or back bedroom is ridiculous but it happens all the time.

While Jeff Bozos may be one of the richest people on the planet most online retailers in the modelling hobby that I know well are not running around in Rolls Royces or Bentleys and living the Jet Set lifestyle (that Jamie@Sovereign Hobbies is clearly the exception as he's loaded 🤣) so their Businesses are not in a position to compete with Multinationals. I know from my own experience that after stock purchases my next biggest outlay by a country mile is Postage costs. If I was to offer free postage on every order and include 24 hour shipping on top of that I'd be out of business in less than a month. I don't believe "free" ever means without cost to the customer as every business of whatever size has to be able to recover costs one way or another or it will not be able to survive so it's a clever marketing ploy and the costs will be getting recovered from other sources (in AP's case by charging a subscription to the customers and by adding to the price of the items). 

 

Duncan B

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Unfortunately this is a reality we have to live with. Under international law it is illegal (with severe penalties) to endanger an aircraft by loading it with anything classed as dangerous goods outwith the rules, processes and procedures laid down by IATA. The paperwork and licenses one must hold to fulfil these are extensive therefore pretty much all mail/postal companies have strict prohibitions of airmail of dangerous goods because the sender has to provide a whole bunch of stuff such as Material Safety Data Sheets etc to allow the time-consuming forms and IATA-licensed packaging to take place. For general mail this is a total non-starter because most mail companies fly the mail from city-hub to city-hub or as a minimum retain the option to do so. The fines when caught sending stuff undisclosed can be brutal, and rightly so. Business owners doing it can get custodial sentences - again rightly so.

 

So, all that given, the only option is road transport i.e. couriers. The courier business must be licensed, the driver must be trained in ADR carriage of dangerous goods and the vehicle must be equipped with fire extinguishers etc etc.

 

Essentially if it's on this list, the Health & Safety Executive, the Police, Civil Aviation Authority, Marine Transport Authority etc etc etc are all fully aligned in wanting any illegal senders reported and prosecuted.

 

Quote

 


The classes of dangerous goods according to ADR are the following:

Class 1 Explosive substances and articles

Class 2 Gases, including compressed, liquified, and dissolved under pressure gases and vapors

Flammable gases (e.g. butane, propane, acetylene)

Non-flammable and non-toxic, likely to cause asphyxiation (e.g. nitrogen, CO2) or oxidisers (e.g. oxygen)

Toxic (e.g. chlorine, phosgene)

Class 3 Flammable liquids

Class 4.1 Flammable solids, self-reactive substances, and solid desensitized explosives

Class 4.2 Substances liable to spontaneous combustion

Class 4.3 Substances which, in contact with water, emit flammable gases

Class 5.1 Oxidizing substances

Class 5.2 Organic peroxides

Class 6.1 Toxic substances

Class 6.2 Infectious substances

Class 7 Radioactive material

Class 8 Corrosive substances

Class 9 Miscellaneous dangerous substances and articles

Each entry in the different classes has been assigned a 4 digit UN number. It is not usually possible to deduce the hazard class of a substance from its UN number: they have to be looked up in a table. An exception to this are Class 1 substances whose UN number will always begin with a 0. See List of UN numbers.
 

 

 

It's one of these subjects where frankly there isn't really much scope or tolerance of people trying to apply their unqualified "common sense". One badly packaged lithium ion battery hidden undisclosed in a package next to a box of badly packaged undisclosed flammable liquids could bring the cargo plane flying the overnight mail from London to Manchester down into a housing estate. This is more a case of people just doing as they are instructed. My tolerance of competing businesses sending flammable liquids through regular post undisclosed is wearing very thin, and it's high time they grew up and took responsibility.

 

 

Just to pick up again on Amazon, they were repeat offenders here and made the news. The fine they got would sink small businesses but merely would offset the tax they don't pay in the UK anyway. Still, it's a real thing:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/23/amazon-uk-found-guilty-of-airmailing-dangerous-goods#:~:text=Amazon UK has been found,failed to take reasonable care.



Amazon UK has been found guilty and fined £65,000 for breaking aviation safety laws after repeatedly trying to send dangerous goods by airmail.

A judge at Southwark crown court in London said on Friday that Amazon knew the rules, had been warned repeatedly, but had failed to take reasonable care. Although the risks from the goods sent for shipment by air were low, Judge Michael Grieve QC blamed the breaches on “systemic failure” at the online retailer.

As well as the fine, Amazon was ordered to pay £60,000 towards prosecution costs.

Earlier in the week, the jury found Amazon guilty of breaching rules for shipping dangerous goods by airmail on four counts between November 2013 and May 2015.

 

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1 hour ago, SafetyDad said:

Airfix use a box for some kits that's just too big for this at 46cm long so you're into Medium Parcel territory (why did they do that? The pieces would have fitted into a slightly smaller box!) I got caught out with this recently selling a TSR.2 and had to absorb the excess cost myself.

 

SD

 


That's why I use Hermes.  They go by weight.  And I've never had a problem.  Guess I've been lucky or not had to send enough parcels yet.

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4 hours ago, Kes said:

... but, with no local model stores near my home,

(five years ago there was one or two, ten years quite a few over twenty years ago there was over a dozen within half an hour drive! )

 

Unfortunately it is predatory companies like Amazon who are no doubt behind many of these closures.

 

By offering kits at the same price as the hobby shop, but with 'free next day' delivery, they steal the market share, but make more profit by paying staff dirt wages and by writing off intentionally loss making delivery services against their tax bills to save millions a year.

 

The big push on "free postage" means that even online stores find it hard to compete, hence Amazon introducing Marketplace to try and get their cut of every order placed.

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1 hour ago, Tim R-T-C said:

Unfortunately it is predatory companies like Amazon who are no doubt behind many of these closures.

 

By offering kits at the same price as the hobby shop, but with 'free next day' delivery, they steal the market share, but make more profit by paying staff dirt wages and by writing off intentionally loss making delivery services against their tax bills to save millions a year. If they pay their Taxes at all?

 

The big push on "free postage" means that even online stores find it hard to compete, hence Amazon introducing Marketplace to try and get their cut of every order placed.

My comment in red

 

Duncan B

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I was kinda hoping suggestions for online model stores but seem to got into Amazon bashing and the laws regarding sending paint through the post? 

 

Maybe I shouldn't have titled it 'Postage rates'!!

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1 hour ago, Kes said:

I was kinda hoping suggestions for online model stores but seem to got into Amazon bashing and the laws regarding sending paint through the post? 

 

Maybe I shouldn't have titled it 'Postage rates'!!

 

That wasn't my intent. The quoted postage for your paints is £9odd because that's what it costs. Anyone, Amazon or model shop sending flammable liquids in the £3ish sort of range most folk not aware of the law and its practical implications have anchored in their minds as a "reasonable" sum is almost certainly doing it illegally.

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9 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

That wasn't my intent. The quoted postage for your paints is £9odd because that's what it costs. Anyone, Amazon or model shop sending flammable liquids in the £3ish sort of range most folk not aware of the law and its practical implications have anchored in their minds as a "reasonable" sum is almost certainly doing it illegally.

Not sure acrylics are flammable but I take your point

Just ordered two Tamiya acrylic paint aerosols, P+P was £6

 

Thanks for everyones help?!?!

Edited by Kes
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2 minutes ago, Kes said:

Not sure acrylics are flammable but I take your point

Just ordered two Tamiya acrylic paint aerosols, P+P was £6

 

The word "acrylic" is meaningless besides being infinitely marketable apparently.

 

If the packaging carries the internationally recognised flammable symbol then it's Class III packing group III flammable liquids

resized_1ec0d4b0-a534-4184-96ea-eb0ccd78

 

Aerosols are in a more onerous class than non-pressurised paints. They're even harder to post legally.

 

Legally aerosols must have this internationally recognised Limited Quantities diamond label on the outer postal packaging so that everyone handling it knows it contains something they shouldn't crush/overheat/shake etc etc

51IRg1EyKdL._AC_SL1000_.jpg

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Yes, some can be flammable, and as Jamie quite rightly says any one doing it on the cheap is not doing it right, or legally.

 

Also before any one says a pot of paint cant be all that bad, I work dangerous goods as part of my day job, and in most accidents/incidents/case studies involving packaged DG its not one thng that generally cases the issues, its a combination of actors and products. Its the load where person A has shipped paint, person B nail varnish remover, and person C a couple of cans of Lynx Africa. Put them all together and its a problem if something happens.

 

The law is there or a reason and proper retailers and suppliers follow them, unfortunately there are cost implications to all of this.

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Yeah, but, I got my postage reduced from nearly a tenner to six quid, which was the point of my original question. So I'm happy!! Yaayy!!

 

The whole acrylic thing in the post wasn't part of my original question, 'interesting' though it is, it's not something that concerns me but seems to be the focus of this thread

 

However, a list of suggestions for online suppliers who 'aren't' Amazon who can supply tricky to source paint (notwithstanding the laws regarding it's delivery!) might be a good idea for those who disapprove of Amazons retail practices

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28 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

The word "acrylic" is meaningless besides being infinitely marketable apparently.

 

If the packaging carries the internationally recognised flammable symbol then it's Class III packing group III flammable liquids

 

 

 

I keep meaning to get a small fire extinguisher for the house.  Mother insists we don't need one, I don't think she really understands what my stash of paints under the dining room table are...

 

As for UK paint suppliers -

 

Most model shops that have an online prescence.


There's a sub-forum here with retailers listed with their own sub-forums - called Shops, manufacturers & vendors, it's quite a big section when you scroll down.  Model Hobbies, eModels, Premium Hobbies (?), veteroanus (spelling?) on ebay are others that I know of.  Not sure if Model Hobbies do Gunze, but I know eModels, Premium Hobbies, and veteroanus do.  It's how I know there seems to be a shortage of H72 and H74.

Edited by RobL
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2 minutes ago, RobL said:

 

 

I keep meaning to get a small fire extinguisher for the house.  Mother insists we don't need one, I don't think she really understands what my stash of paints under the dining room table are...

So that's a no on the original question then? we've moved on to fire extinguishers?

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Just now, Kes said:

So that's a no on the original question then? we've moved on to fire extinguishers?

Refresh the page. 😉

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21 minutes ago, RobL said:

Refresh the page. 😉

Thank you,

eModels  was the place I found with the high postal rates, but they do stock what I need, so instead of going through the checkout process of all the other stores I thought I'd ask here, it's what forums are about right?

 

and here we are! Ha!

Edited by Kes
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26 minutes ago, RobL said:

 

 

I keep meaning to get a small fire extinguisher for the house.  Mother insists we don't need one, I don't think she really understands what my stash of paints under the dining room table are...

 

As for UK paint suppliers -

 

Most model shops that have an online prescence.


There's a sub-forum here with retailers listed with their own sub-forums - called Shops, manufacturers & vendors, it's quite a big section when you scroll down.  Model Hobbies, eModels, Premium Hobbies (?), veteroanus (spelling?) on ebay are others that I know of.  Not sure if Model Hobbies do Gunze, but I know eModels, Premium Hobbies, and veteroanus do.  It's how I know there seems to be a shortage of H72 and H74.

You try Air-Craft.net in Fort William, Scotland as they seem to have C74 Air Superiority in stock, but C72 Intermediate Blue is out of stock

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Thanks Mick, just ordered from ' Air-Craft.net ' identical order which would've cost £9.50 P+P from my original online order which inspired this post,

 

A similar order from Hannants was £6.00

 

but these guys, £3.49!! Royal Mail 48hr

 

dunno about all the stuff mentioned above, but good postal rates are available with good advice from helpful forum members

 

again, Thanks Mick4350

 

Note, Jeff Bezos was unharmed in the duration of this post! Ha!

Edited by Kes
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54 minutes ago, Kes said:

Thanks Mick, just ordered from ' Air-Craft.net ' identical order which would've cost £9.50 P+P from my original online order which inspired this post,

 

A similar order from Hannants was £6.00

 

but these guys, £3.49!! Royal Mail 48hr

 

dunno about all the stuff mentioned above, but good postal rates are available with good advice from helpful forum members

 

again, Thanks Mick4350

 

Note, Jeff Bezos was unharmed in the duration of this post! Ha!

I usually order my Gunze paint from Scalemodelshop, postage is the same I think.

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1 hour ago, Mick4350 said:

You try Air-Craft.net in Fort William, Scotland as they seem to have C74 Air Superiority in stock, but C72 Intermediate Blue is out of stock

 

Sadly I want H74 RAF Sky, and H72 RAF Dark Earth.  Thanks though.

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I try and buy from UK suppliers when I can but many of them have very low stock levels, with the price of postage ideally I would like to get all my needs from the same place however very few companies can meet this requirement.

 

Nothing irritates me more than doing search being directed to a web site to only then find they are out of stock, such shops do not get my custom, that is then compounded by leaving my email for notification of when in stock, I have done this a couple of times but gave up as months later these items are not in stock, If you don't have it don't advertise it!!! These are pre-covid experiences.

 

Paint I get from Sovereign as I am an enamels man, I have also started dabbling in lacquers and have found some uses for MRP and Gunze.

 

MRP I get from source as they have the full range available, also have started using HM hobbies who seem to be the best MRP stocked in the uk, I find Super Hobby in Slovakia very good for consumables. They also carry indigenous ranges at really good prices and my experience so far with glues, transfer fluids, and brushes quality has been very good.

 

Air-craft.net is my airbrush shop of choice and carry the Gunze lacquer range, they restock promptly so even if out of stock 'twill usually be due in.

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