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Jeff G

Short Stirling Pathfinder

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I'm now the proud owner of the 1/72 Italeri Stirling kit! Though there are 6 decal options with it, I'm considering doing a different scheme. The aircraft I'm looking into is EF369 MG-Z, fitted with H2S and the newer turret. Does anybody have any reference material to this aircraft aside from a few artist renderings/paintings? Any info/pictures is much appreciated!

 

MYUbMYE.png

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large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.44465380.17547598

Stirling Mark I, R9254, fitted with H2S radar at the Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment, Boscombe Down, Wiltshire. This aircraft was passed to No. 214 Squadron RAF for operational service, and finally to No. 1653 Conversion Unit.

 

50349851752_951b9ef880_b.jpg

 

50348996418_a50cee55c6_b.jpg

 

50349851837_d505d198ec_b.jpg

 

The only H2S equipped Stirling I have ever seen were either from a testing unit or in training units.

 

These are the only ones I have ever seen with what appears to be squadron markings.

 

50348996473_790a5d0bc1_o.jpg

 

50348996493_4620356869_o.jpg

 

 

 

 

Chris

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Nice pictures @dogsbody - thanks

Has that last one (or last two?) had the canopy rear overpainted or is that an optical illusion?

 

SD

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29 minutes ago, SafetyDad said:

Nice pictures @dogsbody - thanks

Has that last one (or last two?) had the canopy rear overpainted or is that an optical illusion?

 

SD

 Don't know. These were quite small pictures that have been resized a bit already. Anything larger and the details get too fuzzy to see clearly, though I do think they were overpainted.

 

 

 

Chris

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The last two of Chris's pictures are the same aircraft.  I considered this Stirling for a build - It is TV-Y EF403/G and it was at 1660CU from 11/12/43 to 24/2/45. It is thought to have been used by 161(SD) Sqn before that. The rear canopy is indeed overpainted as are the fuselage windows. Note lack of guns in rear turret but they are probably off being serviced.

 

50349863373_0bd9a9b3ea_h.jpg[

 

50350582786_51313ab17a_h.jpg

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@dogsbody very interesting images, luckily Heavy Conversion Units make the markings a bit easier to create! Though it makes me wonder why the image of EF369 is included in so many books if it's an error.

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1 hour ago, Jeff G said:

why the image of EF369 is included in so many books if it's an error.

Because the error only needs to be made once - all of the subsequent images in books or websites are copies! I haven't researched EF369 - there may well be a picture somewhere.

 

1 hour ago, Jeff G said:

Heavy Conversion Units make the markings a bit easier to create

TV-Y above could be MSG for serials and codes as they seem a bit lighter than red in roundel but should be red in 1944. Probably available on generic sheets.

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Thanks for those larger photos, Ed. I shall add those to my collection, to replace the little ones I have now.

 

Wait! Look what I found while saving Ed's photos. A colourized version.

 

50352980116_271cedfb0d_b.jpg

 

 

I really do need to go through my saved pictures and re-label/re-organize them.

 

 

Chris

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18 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

Note lack of guns in rear turret but they are probably off being serviced.

The guns are in the turret, they are just elevated.

 

Dan

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4 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Wait! Look what I found while saving Ed's photos. A colourized version.

It's beautiful! Great find!

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5 hours ago, dogsbody said:

A colourized version

Note the difference in colourisation between the codes and national insignia - I think this means the software is really struggling and they could be any colour.

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11 minutes ago, Ed Russell said:

Note the difference in colourisation between the codes and national insignia - I think this means the software is really struggling and they could be any colour.

With the roundel being C.1 wouldn't that likely make it the same dark red, since we can assume it's either late or after 1942 with the roundel and H2S? I assumed grey was phased out by then.

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42 minutes ago, Jeff G said:

wouldn't that likely make it the same dark red,

Common sense and a knowledge of RAF colour history = yes, it is the same colour

Colourisation software = no it was a different shade of red

Who knows? It may be fresh red paint on codes and faded roundels but that is not the appearance of the original photo. The photos were  reputedly taken in late 1944. and the codes were reputedly painted on in late 1943. If I had built TV-Y I would have used standard red codes.

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Hi

    i would have thought a slight variation between codes and roundel etc would most likely 

 

   the roundel etc would most likely have been painted at an MU or similar 

 

   the codes painted at unit level

 

   so the same tin of paint would not have been used, maybe most likely not even the same batch number of the paint 

 

   cheers

     jerry 

 

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In my opinion it is a rather poor colorization - none of the colours look really right: the colours of the aircraft look wrong but also the entire environment (compared to some other colorized images that could convince you they were taken yesterday).

 

More importantly however, we don't know the process of the colorization of this particular image. I would not trust the difference in colour between the red of the roundel and the code letters at all in this image.

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I copied and edited that photo. 

I darkened it and straightened the landscape horizon.

Just to see what it would look like

 

stirling%2C%20colourized%2C%20333-XL.jpg

 

Notice that what Shorts calls the Coupe, the main canopy, that the rear part appears to be over painted in Dark Earth

Actually done, or colourisation done badly?

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Hi

   i think that is visible in the b/w photos earlier in the thread 

   cheers

      jerry

 

 

p.s. 

      unless this is the window curtain that is refered to in the AP manual 

Edited by brewerjerry
after thought

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It amazes me how these algorithms and neural networks can do such smart recoloring and upscaling these days. I was watching some of the tank battles in Cologne last night and there is something truly remarkable watching this footage at 60fps in color, it suddenly becomes a lot more 'real'
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhJGqL80cqA

 

 

Sorry for derailing the thread a little :) 
 

 


your plane in question - picture at link below.

Short Stirling III (EF369 MG-Z) på uppdrag till Hamburg den 1943-07-28

 

https://sv.backtonormandy.org/the-history/air-force-operations/airplanes-allies-and-axis-lost/stirling/27619-EF3691943-07-28.html

 

 

Article PDF Link -  https://docdro.id/rDtqldF


This looks to be the original article your initial photo comes from (but unfortunately no more pics of that particular airframe, the article may be of use if you dont have already)

 

 

Edited by Kushan_Farsight
changed links to hopefully work now.

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Kushan, your video looks great.

 

The Stirling picture is just a flickering grey rectangle. When I tried opening it in another tab, it just said Access Denied.

 

Your last link, when I clicked on it, said it contained Malicious Site Blocked!

 

 

 

 

Chris

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59 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

Kushan, your video looks great.

 

The Stirling picture is just a flickering grey rectangle. When I tried opening it in another tab, it just said Access Denied.

 

Your last link, when I clicked on it, said it contained Malicious Site Blocked!

 

 

 

 

Chris

Hmm very strange, i can see the image in the thread! i have changed the links to both pages so hopefully they work now.

 

The PDF page i can assure you is not malicious, ive used it a ton (its like Photobucket / Imgbox but for PDFs) its probably that the link i first put in tries to auto download the pdf for you, which is scaring your browser a bit :) 


 

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Your photo link is almost this photo. Probably taken moments apart.

 

50357029717_9f2ac792ab_b.jpg

 

 

 

That last link still comes up as malicious.

 

 

 

Chris

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22 minutes ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

The PDF page i can assure you is not malicious, ive used it a ton (its like Photobucket / Imgbox but for PDFs) its probably that the link i first put in tries to auto download the pdf for you, which is scaring your browser a bit :) 

Yes, that's the page I got the Stirling info from. My computer says it's malicious as well but I just ignored the warning. Anyway, these photos are fantastic! I wish the RAF had been as photo-obsessed as the USAAF during the war. A few more shots of Stirlings with various squadrons would be so helpful.

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17 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said:

I
your plane in question - picture at link below.

Short Stirling III (EF369 MG-Z) på uppdrag till Hamburg den 1943-07-28

 

https://sv.backtonormandy.org/the-history/air-force-operations/airplanes-allies-and-axis-lost/stirling/27619-EF3691943-07-28.html

 

NB the photo in the Swedish link does not depict EF369 MG-Z: it is just an illustrative (and atmospheric) photo of a Stirling crew.  The same photo appears in colour on p.26 of Roger Freeman's The RAF of WW2 In Colour.  The caption reads "Sgt Leonard A Johnson and crew walking beneath the nose of Stirling  N3676 "S" of 1651 HCU (Heavy Conversion Unit) at Waterbeach while the ground crew run up the engines."  It is one of a series of colour photos taken at Waterbeach by Charles Brown on a Press Facility Day on 29 April 1942 (in fact most genuine colour photos of Stirlings that I can recall derive from that shoot).  Freeman reproduces ten and attributes them either to the IWM or the RAF Museum.  I assume the caption above draws on the IWM/RAFM captions.

Edited by Seahawk

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