Jeff G Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 I'm now the proud owner of the 1/72 Italeri Stirling kit! Though there are 6 decal options with it, I'm considering doing a different scheme. The aircraft I'm looking into is EF369 MG-Z, fitted with H2S and the newer turret. Does anybody have any reference material to this aircraft aside from a few artist renderings/paintings? Any info/pictures is much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Stirling Mark I, R9254, fitted with H2S radar at the Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment, Boscombe Down, Wiltshire. This aircraft was passed to No. 214 Squadron RAF for operational service, and finally to No. 1653 Conversion Unit. The only H2S equipped Stirling I have ever seen were either from a testing unit or in training units. These are the only ones I have ever seen with what appears to be squadron markings. Chris 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafetyDad Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Nice pictures @dogsbody - thanks Has that last one (or last two?) had the canopy rear overpainted or is that an optical illusion? SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 29 minutes ago, SafetyDad said: Nice pictures @dogsbody - thanks Has that last one (or last two?) had the canopy rear overpainted or is that an optical illusion? SD Don't know. These were quite small pictures that have been resized a bit already. Anything larger and the details get too fuzzy to see clearly, though I do think they were overpainted. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 I would say so too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 The last two of Chris's pictures are the same aircraft. I considered this Stirling for a build - It is TV-Y EF403/G and it was at 1660CU from 11/12/43 to 24/2/45. It is thought to have been used by 161(SD) Sqn before that. The rear canopy is indeed overpainted as are the fuselage windows. Note lack of guns in rear turret but they are probably off being serviced. [ 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 @dogsbody very interesting images, luckily Heavy Conversion Units make the markings a bit easier to create! Though it makes me wonder why the image of EF369 is included in so many books if it's an error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Jeff G said: why the image of EF369 is included in so many books if it's an error. Because the error only needs to be made once - all of the subsequent images in books or websites are copies! I haven't researched EF369 - there may well be a picture somewhere. 1 hour ago, Jeff G said: Heavy Conversion Units make the markings a bit easier to create TV-Y above could be MSG for serials and codes as they seem a bit lighter than red in roundel but should be red in 1944. Probably available on generic sheets. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 Thanks for those larger photos, Ed. I shall add those to my collection, to replace the little ones I have now. Wait! Look what I found while saving Ed's photos. A colourized version. I really do need to go through my saved pictures and re-label/re-organize them. Chris 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_RAFBC Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 18 hours ago, Ed Russell said: Note lack of guns in rear turret but they are probably off being serviced. The guns are in the turret, they are just elevated. Dan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 4 hours ago, dogsbody said: Wait! Look what I found while saving Ed's photos. A colourized version. It's beautiful! Great find! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 5 hours ago, dogsbody said: A colourized version Note the difference in colourisation between the codes and national insignia - I think this means the software is really struggling and they could be any colour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Ed Russell said: Note the difference in colourisation between the codes and national insignia - I think this means the software is really struggling and they could be any colour. With the roundel being C.1 wouldn't that likely make it the same dark red, since we can assume it's either late or after 1942 with the roundel and H2S? I assumed grey was phased out by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 42 minutes ago, Jeff G said: wouldn't that likely make it the same dark red, Common sense and a knowledge of RAF colour history = yes, it is the same colour Colourisation software = no it was a different shade of red Who knows? It may be fresh red paint on codes and faded roundels but that is not the appearance of the original photo. The photos were reputedly taken in late 1944. and the codes were reputedly painted on in late 1943. If I had built TV-Y I would have used standard red codes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Hi i would have thought a slight variation between codes and roundel etc would most likely the roundel etc would most likely have been painted at an MU or similar the codes painted at unit level so the same tin of paint would not have been used, maybe most likely not even the same batch number of the paint cheers jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elger Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 In my opinion it is a rather poor colorization - none of the colours look really right: the colours of the aircraft look wrong but also the entire environment (compared to some other colorized images that could convince you they were taken yesterday). More importantly however, we don't know the process of the colorization of this particular image. I would not trust the difference in colour between the red of the roundel and the code letters at all in this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 I copied and edited that photo. I darkened it and straightened the landscape horizon. Just to see what it would look like Notice that what Shorts calls the Coupe, the main canopy, that the rear part appears to be over painted in Dark Earth Actually done, or colourisation done badly? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) Hi i think that is visible in the b/w photos earlier in the thread cheers jerry p.s. unless this is the window curtain that is refered to in the AP manual Edited September 18, 2020 by brewerjerry after thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan_Farsight Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) It amazes me how these algorithms and neural networks can do such smart recoloring and upscaling these days. I was watching some of the tank battles in Cologne last night and there is something truly remarkable watching this footage at 60fps in color, it suddenly becomes a lot more 'real' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhJGqL80cqA Sorry for derailing the thread a little your plane in question - picture at link below. Short Stirling III (EF369 MG-Z) på uppdrag till Hamburg den 1943-07-28 https://sv.backtonormandy.org/the-history/air-force-operations/airplanes-allies-and-axis-lost/stirling/27619-EF3691943-07-28.html Article PDF Link - https://docdro.id/rDtqldF This looks to be the original article your initial photo comes from (but unfortunately no more pics of that particular airframe, the article may be of use if you dont have already) Edited September 18, 2020 by Kushan_Farsight changed links to hopefully work now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Kushan, your video looks great. The Stirling picture is just a flickering grey rectangle. When I tried opening it in another tab, it just said Access Denied. Your last link, when I clicked on it, said it contained Malicious Site Blocked! Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan_Farsight Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 59 minutes ago, dogsbody said: Kushan, your video looks great. The Stirling picture is just a flickering grey rectangle. When I tried opening it in another tab, it just said Access Denied. Your last link, when I clicked on it, said it contained Malicious Site Blocked! Chris Hmm very strange, i can see the image in the thread! i have changed the links to both pages so hopefully they work now. The PDF page i can assure you is not malicious, ive used it a ton (its like Photobucket / Imgbox but for PDFs) its probably that the link i first put in tries to auto download the pdf for you, which is scaring your browser a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Your photo link is almost this photo. Probably taken moments apart. That last link still comes up as malicious. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff G Posted September 18, 2020 Author Share Posted September 18, 2020 22 minutes ago, Kushan_Farsight said: The PDF page i can assure you is not malicious, ive used it a ton (its like Photobucket / Imgbox but for PDFs) its probably that the link i first put in tries to auto download the pdf for you, which is scaring your browser a bit Yes, that's the page I got the Stirling info from. My computer says it's malicious as well but I just ignored the warning. Anyway, these photos are fantastic! I wish the RAF had been as photo-obsessed as the USAAF during the war. A few more shots of Stirlings with various squadrons would be so helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, Kushan_Farsight said: I your plane in question - picture at link below. Short Stirling III (EF369 MG-Z) på uppdrag till Hamburg den 1943-07-28 https://sv.backtonormandy.org/the-history/air-force-operations/airplanes-allies-and-axis-lost/stirling/27619-EF3691943-07-28.html NB the photo in the Swedish link does not depict EF369 MG-Z: it is just an illustrative (and atmospheric) photo of a Stirling crew. The same photo appears in colour on p.26 of Roger Freeman's The RAF of WW2 In Colour. The caption reads "Sgt Leonard A Johnson and crew walking beneath the nose of Stirling N3676 "S" of 1651 HCU (Heavy Conversion Unit) at Waterbeach while the ground crew run up the engines." It is one of a series of colour photos taken at Waterbeach by Charles Brown on a Press Facility Day on 29 April 1942 (in fact most genuine colour photos of Stirlings that I can recall derive from that shoot). Freeman reproduces ten and attributes them either to the IWM or the RAF Museum. I assume the caption above draws on the IWM/RAFM captions. Edited September 19, 2020 by Seahawk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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