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Why did the French design such ugly planes prior to and into WWII?


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20 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

  TB-3? 

What do You know about TB-3?  😁

TB-3 competitor of which was Grigorovich TB-5 :

800px-%D0%A2%D0%91-5_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%A6

which Grigorovich built in the NKVD prison

(10 years in camps under article 58-7 ("Undermining of state industry, transport, trade, money circulation or credit system"),

at the suggestion of the director of the plant OGPU number 39, allegedly on the basis of a publication about a multi-engine high-winged aircraft with engines under the wing of the famous Farman company (the project is rather similar to the Fokker F.32 ),

by the way, a French designer Paul Richard was invited to take his place head design bureau.

 

But TB-3 was a development of the TB-1 design, the competitor of which was Polikarpov TB-2:

tb2-1.jpg

which was developed as a replacement for Farman Goliath  F.62 BN.4:

(on photo F.63)

f60-15.jpg

thus, in the competition between scary  and ugly, the scary ones won ... and yes, Tupolev studied German metal structures Junkers for a long time, thus, until the appearance of the DC-3 in the USSR, the ideas of the German design school won over the ideas of the French design school.

In general, TB-3

tb3-27.jpg

is not the worst option compared to the alternatives.

15 hours ago, Space Ranger said:

For ugly you can't beat the Short Seamew:

 

800px-Short_Seamew_landing_on_HMS_Bulwar

Short Seamew? Blackburn Blackburn? You probably haven't seen the Tu-91?  

tu91-1.jpg

.... live with it now!

😁😁

17 hours ago, stever219 said:

Someone once described the Lightning as having all of the aesthetic appeal of a milk bottle, I believe he was working on the design team for the Hawker Siddeley P 1214.

Hawker Siddeley P 1214, it's normally design, as for my! 😎

17 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

As stever219 has mentioned the Lincoln, I suspect it may not be co-incidental that the Lincoln's nose position is also made of flat panels, unlike the Lancaster's bomb aimer blister.

Because of this, "your" Lincoln, Tu-2's elegant aerodynamic nose:

tu2-7.jpg

has become the Tu-8 nose:

tu8-5.jpg

!!!

😉😁😁

 

B.R.

Serge

Edited by Aardvark
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On 9/16/2020 at 6:33 AM, Richard502 said:

Did they have a competition going?

My eyes! My eyes! As we say here in the Lone Star state, those are some butt-ugly airplanes! Guess they had to provide fodder for Heller to do styrene releases later on. Could I offer up the  breathtaking Mureau 110 family for consideration? Heller released the 114/117, IIRC and I actually know  a modeler who built one!  (His name is being withheld to prevent his house from being toilet papered!)

Mike

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANF_Les_Mureaux_113#/media/File:Mureaux113.jpg

Edited by 72modeler
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@Floggerman

 

That Il-20 generally would have looked quite nice if the designer hadn't completely lost his mind when he got to the cockpit area. As for the Il-40: from other angles it's clearly Gerry Anderson's Stingray with wings. 

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No need to divert the topic 😉😁, in the IL-20 and IL-40, despite all the absurdity and grotesqueness, at least some functionality and common sense is seen, but try to find functionality and common sense in this French design:

so6000-6.jpg

SO.6020_Espadon.jpg

vg70-3.jpg

nc1071-4.jpg

???

As we can see, the pre-war and war traditions of constructing flying ugly  successfully continued after the war ... they even reached Argentina:

iae27-5.jpg

😁

Therefore, until the moment when they were all swallowed up by AMD, the prize for the largest number of ugly aircraft must be given to the Elysee Palace!

😉😁

 

B.R.

Serge

 

Edited by Aardvark
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Hello Serge

The last one, Pulqui I, was more a break from tradition that its continuation. Her designer was Emile Dewoitine with much more aesthetically pleasing designs like D.500 series and D.520 fighters to his name. Cheers

Jure

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1 hour ago, Jure Miljevic said:

The last one, Pulqui I, was more a break from tradition that its continuation. Her designer was Emile Dewoitine with much more aesthetically pleasing designs like D.500 series and D.520 fighters to his name.

Hi, Jure!

 

Emile Dewoitine was French designer? Pulqui I, ugly aircraft? If Dewoitine after war began to make terrible airplanes in Argentina, succumbing to the general French tendency and following the pre-war and war French trend (even though he did not make terrible airplanes before, although the D.510, D.520 can hardly be called a beautiful airplane, like the M.S. 406, M.S.410 😉), then what is the contradiction with what was said  me?

Just Dewoitine end career succumbed to the French tendency to build fearsome airplanes! 😉😁

 

About  Arsenal V.G.70, S.O.6000, S.O.6030, N.C.1071, no objection, as I understand it?

Ugly aircraft?

😉😁

 

The most interesting thing is that in the Russian-speaking segment of the Internet there is a discussion about who was the first Marcel Dassault with the phase: "un bel avion est un avion qui vole bien" (a beautiful plane is a plane that flies well) or Andrei Tupolev with the phase: 

"Хорошо летать могут только красивые самолеты"

(Only beautiful airplanes can fly well)!

😁😁

 

B.R.

Serge

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16 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

 

 

The most interesting thing is that in the Russian-speaking segment of the Internet there is a discussion about who was the first Marcel Dassault with the phase: "un bel avion est un avion qui vole bien" (a beautiful plane is a plane that flies well) or Andrei Tupolev with the phase: 

"Хорошо летать могут только красивые самолеты"

(Only beautiful airplanes can fly well)!

😁😁

 

B.R.

Serge

Or in simplified terms: If it looks right, it will fly right.

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P.S.

B.w. this topic good idea for GB "Only ugly aircraft of all times and peoples!" 😉😁

Which will be held under the motto: "Let the worst win!"

😁😁

Voting badge's🤢or 💩, whoever gets the most of these badges wins!

😁😁

I see future hollywar in GB chat: 

- This aircraft most ugly!!

- No this one!

😁😁

 

B.R.

Serge

 

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44 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Or in simplified terms: If it looks right, it will fly right.

Or, even shorter: Hawker Hunter. 😎

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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14 minutes ago, Hook said:

Or, even shorter: Hawker Hunter. 😎

More shorter: F11F-1 (long nose)! 😉😎😋

 

But this WWII topic, therefore, according to my aesthetic views, this is

(in no order):

Bf.109 G-10/K

La-7

Jak-3

Spitfire (but what modification?  Probably mk.XIV)

P-51D

Sea Fury

Fiat G.55

....what else?

 

B.R.

Serge

 

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Never mind the French, the Americans have produced a few mingers too! 

 

How about this monstrosity; it looks like a pug having a poo:

 

spacer.png

 

Or this evil alien swan:

 

spacer.png

 

Fortunately they never entered service so didn't inflict their ugliness on us for very long. This thing, however ...

 

spacer.png

 

They must wake up at Marham every morning and see that beautiful Victor at the gate and feel as inadequate as I would standing next to Emma Watson.

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You complain about the French but have you looked closer to home? The Spitfire seems to have used up the WWII UK aircraft industry's entire supply of "good looks" 😁

 

The French have at least redeemed themselves with their Cold War and modern designs:

 

spacer.png

 

...while we were busy ruining the good looks of the original German project for the Eurofighter. 😈

 

spacer.png

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On 16/09/2020 at 15:52, Black Knight said:

Chaps, Chapesses, and others,  ever since the middle of the Medieval period, roughly the last third of the 13th century, it was recognised that the Frenchies could not make good armour, neither quality steel nor fashionable. It was recognised that the Italians made good looking armour but used poor steel, the Germans used high quality steel but had no fashion sense. 

It was for these reasons that good 'ole Henry VIII set up an armoury near one of his palaces in Greenwich, on the edge of London. To this Henry brought German and Italian armourers. The Germans to make the steel to the fashions designed by the Italians. It is recognised that the armour produced there is one of the nicest and best quality armour ever produced in England.

Even the knights and men-at-arms of France's old ally, Scotland, refused to wear French armour in the period of 13th through to 15th century, relying instead on Scottish made, as poor as it was, or captured Burgundian armour.

And you could say exactly the same about the 1960-70’s car industries too

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On 16/09/2020 at 21:14, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Oi ... You leave my Lincoln's out of this ! They looked dang good to my eyes. 

An optivisor is now in the post :D

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3 hours ago, occa said:

What about this ?

 

UKZ326LZFNAKLGM4S6FNWJQNPM.jpg

 

NASM-CW5G-0845.jpg?itok=qWSiEEl1

 

It has an interesting history:

http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft29118.htm

https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lists/2016/03/11-ugliest-aircraft-ever-built/

 

That would be something for @Moa

 

Looks like someone got a variant of Clément Ader's Éole to fly. Without a steam engine!

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They must wake up at Marham every morning and see that beautiful Victor at the gate and feel as inadequate as I would standing next to Emma Watson.

 

It is pity that the Victor at Marham ,is going to be scrapped.

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Marcel Bloch was a member of the French Resistance during the German occupation of France. 

His code name was 'Char D'assault'. The long-winded French name for a tank

After WW2 M. Bloch assumed the latter part of his code name as his new personal moniker

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