WWII British tanks' undercoat colour?

[alloydog]

While it seem the usual undercoat for late-war/post D-Day German AFVs was red-oxide, what was used to undercoat British tanks? Was undercoat even used, or did they just slap a thick coat of olive-drab onto bare metal?

[Graham Boak]

I must admit I don't know what undercoat was used on tanks, possibly the traditional red lead oxide, but British-made tanks weren't always painted olive drab.  They had a wide range of different schemes depending upon the years and the theatres.   And not US Olive Drab anyway.  It you want a guide to the different colours used by British tanks at different stages of the war, look at the MAFVA site https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/?v=79cba1185463  For a better idea of the actual colours look elsewhere on the site.

[Kingsman]

Well one thing is for certain.  No British-built tank was ever painted Olive Drab.......  At least not in the US sense.

 

In chronological order during WW2, British-built tanks were finished in Khaki Green 3, SCC2 (Brown) or SCC15, the latter sometimers referred-to as "olive drab" but was really a green.

 

As for undercoat, red lead was pretty much universal worldwide in that era and long after.  Germany used it, the USA used it and AFAIK the UK used it too.  I believe that Russia did not always bother with primer to save time and cost and because they understood that tanks were disposable assets with short lives, and that corrosion and paint wear were the least of their problems.

[alloydog]

3 minutes ago, Das Abteilung said:

SCC15, the latter sometimers referred-to as "olive drab" but was really a green

OK, yes, you're right, but I was being lazy:)

Anyway, thanks for info about the red lead/oxide undrcoat.

[Mike Starmer]

The contracts for Humber armoured cars, Matildaa nd Crusader tanks at Bovington all specify Red Oxide primers both inside and outside.

[nheather]

I don’t think they would have used a separate undercoat, the red oxide would have served as both primer and undercoat, then coats of SCC15 on top of that.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

 

 

[Bullbasket]

33 minutes ago, nheather said:

I don’t think they would have used a separate undercoat, the red oxide would have served as both primer and undercoat, then coats of SCC15 on top of that.

 

On that subject, I have seen several models (and have done the same myself) of Middle East theatre tanks such as Crusaders, where the paint has been chipped away, and then the chip has been depicted with a cream colour, and then finally, a dark colour. Was his just poetic license on behalf of the model builders, or were these tanks given an undercoat of a cream colour before the top coat of sand/light stone etc?

 

John.

 

 

[nheather]

12 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

On that subject, I have seen several models (and have done the same myself) of Middle East theatre tanks such as Crusaders, where the paint has been chipped away, and then the chip has been depicted with a cream colour, and then finally, a dark colour. Was his just poetic license on behalf of the model builders, or were these tanks given an undercoat of a cream colour before the top coat of sand/light stone etc?

 

John.

 

 

It was only my speculation to be honest, I don’t really see why you would bother with an undercoat, but I could well be wrong.

 

The other thing you might see is that when there is a tank’s colour is changed - do they take everything back to bare metal, prime and paint or would they have just have cleaned and painted over the top.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bullbasket]

1 hour ago, nheather said:

The other thing you might see is that when there is a tank’s colour is changed - do they take everything back to bare metal, prime and paint or would they have just have cleaned and painted over the top.

My understanding is that when the Shermans and Grants arrived in the Middle East, they were just sprayed over the original base coat, hence a lot of Shermans still having OD lower hulls.

 

John.

[Kingsman]

A cream undercoat is improbable at best and would make no sense with a factory top colour of green or brown.  Two coats of the top colour would be more likely.

 

I suspect that the Crusader example was attempting to depict an original coat of Portland Stone overpainted with Light Stone.  Which would be wrong unless the "dark" colour was Khaki Green 3 rather than bare metal and the Crusader was a MkI or early MkII, which is about the only way that combination might work.

 

Like US tanks, British tanks were factory-finished in the colour of the day as factories and those placing the orders had no idea where the tanks would be sent.  So tanks arriving in N Africa would be Khaki Green 3 or later SCC2 Brown, overpainted in theatre with the theatre colour of the day - which did change from time to time and tanks were generally the highest priority for repainting as the colour instructions changed. So yes, multiple colour layers are certainly feasible.