Mosquito camo schemes

[Paramedic]

Hi,

 

apologies in advance - since I have not really searched that hard but.. My question is - did Mosquitos ever use that "temperate" scheme (brown, green and whatever the underside is called) operationally?

The reason I ask is, I was pretty sure they never did, atleast not for very long or very much at all but this game War Thunder, maybe you know about it, has its Mk. VI with that scheme. Made me a bit curious.

 

I am not an expert, obviously, but I seem to recall from one of those modeller books on it, that it was "day fighter scheme" or variants there of plus Coastal Command schemes only. Well and then the night fighters..

[Rabbit Leader]

From what I know, the very first bomber version (B.Mk.VI series 1) did appear in the Temperate Land Scheme of Dark Green, Dark Earth and Sky. These aircraft had the shorter rear engine nacelle fairings. 
Cheers.. Dave. 

[Troy Smith]

9 minutes ago, Paramedic said:

My question is - did Mosquitos ever use that "temperate" scheme (brown, green and whatever the underside is called) operationally?

The reason I ask is, I was pretty sure they never did, atleast not for very long or very much at all but this game War Thunder, maybe you know about it, has its Mk. VI with that scheme. Made me a bit curious.

 

Yes, South East Asia Command (SEAC) used Mosquito's that had been built in Nightfighter colours,  overall Medium Sea Grey with Dark Green disruptive pattern,  and had Dark Earth added on top when delivered.

Just now, Rabbit Leader said:

Mk.VI Fighter Bombers flown in SEAC by No. 45 Squadron, however they had Azure Blue undersides.

Any reason/proof why the had Azure Blue?  Other aircraft in European colour retained their Med Sea Grey undersides is all.

I'll put a @tonyot

 

The only colour image I know is the Mosquito on the right here,  a better image perhaps would show more

 

HTH

 

[Rabbit Leader]

Looks like I may have quoted some incorrect information - apologies. A quick google search seems to show that many other modellers may have fallen for the same trap. I’ll remove the ‘Azure Blue’ text above, however it’s probably all a moot point as the OP clearly mentions Mk.IV’s so this discussion is essentially irrelevant. 
Cheers.. Dave 

[Troy Smith]

15 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

OP clearly mentions Mk.IV’s

the OP says VI (6) not  IV(4) 

54 minutes ago, Paramedic said:

game War Thunder, maybe you know about it, has its Mk. VI with that scheme.

 

The War Thunder does have a DG/DE/Sky Mosquito  https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/119983-mosquito-visual-model-errors/

 

also has this SEAC Mosquito I'd not seen before

 

The undersides do look dark,  but then the whole picture does.

[Rabbit Leader]

37 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

the OP says VI (6) not  IV(4

That’s two errors in less than one hour!! Clearly it’s been a long day, time to fall on my sword (aka Pineapple) and call it a night! 
Cheers.. Dave 

[Giorgio N]

The presence of Azure on the undersurfaces of Mosquito Mk.VIs in SEA is supported by Paul Lucas in the relevant volume of the SAM Combat Colours series (Number 6, DH Mosquito Day and Night Fighter Service, 1941 to 1945).

Here he mentions the relevant AMOs and bases on these his opinion that Azure was used for the undersurfaces of these aircraft. At the same time he also mentions how it is not possible to state this without any doubt.

 

The same Lucas mentions the existence of a proposed scheme with the same colours for use on Mk.IVs, scheme that was approved for a very short time and then rejected in favour of the Day Fighter Scheme we usually associate with Mosquito bombers. The information is Number 5 of the series, covering PR and bomber use of the Mosquito. Again, he mentions that it is impossible to state with absolute certainty that such scheme was used, while at the same time proposing possible profiles showing the scheme

In the same volume the use of a more standard TLS is mentioned regarding the earliers Mosquito bombers.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Giorgio N

[Paramedic]

25 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

That’s two errors in less than one hour!! Clearly it’s been a long day, time to fall on my sword (aka Pineapple) and call it a night! 
Cheers.. Dave 

Nah no need for that! Makes me seem more clever after all! I am usually the one doing stuff like that.

 

Thanks guys. Yeah I mean the Mk. VI as in 6. Great link Troy, not seen that one. And I did not know about those SEA ones, mostly think about the Coastal Command or others, so good point. But for Eauropean Mk. Vis, grey-green should be the scheme then, right?

If the WT "model" should be a SEA one, it has the wrong roundels anyways?

[tonyot]

7 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Yes, South East Asia Command (SEAC) used Mosquito's that had been built in Nightfighter colours,  overall Medium Sea Grey with Dark Green disruptive pattern,  and had Dark Earth added on top when delivered.

Any reason/proof why the had Azure Blue?  Other aircraft in European colour retained their Med Sea Grey undersides is all.

I'll put a @tonyot

 

The only colour image I know is the Mosquito on the right here,  a better image perhaps would show more

 

HTH

 

Oh crikey!

I originally went along with the Azure Blue undersides and painted my model with these,.... but the more I`ve thought about it and looked at photos,..... they have to be Medium Sea Grey! 

Cheers

          Tony

[Troy Smith]

6 hours ago, Paramedic said:

But for Eauropean Mk. Vis, grey-green should be the scheme then, right?

 

In 1943 there was a rationalisation of Mosquito paint schemes,  they were to be finished either in PRU Blue (PR variants) or Night Intruder, overall Medium Sea Grey with Dark Green disruptive pattern on upper surfaces.

as seen in this factory shot

Final assembly of Mosquitos,  1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Any specific requirements were then done at MU (Maintenance Unit) or unit level,  so Coastal Command FB.VI's got repainted in to Extra Dark Sea Grey over Sky.

Mosquito FB.VI, 1944. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

A few FB.VI's got bomber colours,  which had Ocean Grey and Dark Green uppers, these are B.IV from 1943, but show the colour

Mosquito B mk V's       1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

More period Mosquito colour here.

 

There is a useful, but limited monograph to Mosquito fighters in NW Europe

here

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Camoflage-Markings/06-De-Havilland-Mosquito

Very good for what it covers, and has details of the factory camo pattern and marking positions and sizes applicable to other versions.

 

6 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

The presence of Azure on the undersurfaces of Mosquito Mk.VIs in SEA is supported by Paul Lucas in the relevant volume of the SAM Combat Colours series (Number 6, DH Mosquito Day and Night Fighter Service, 1941 to 1945).

Here he mentions the relevant AMOs and bases on these his opinion that Azure was used for the undersurfaces of these aircraft. At the same time he also mentions how it is not possible to state this without any doubt.

 

Interesting, though given Mosquito's were reasonably late in arrival in SEAC (late 44?)  and the SEAC standard then was to add Dark Earth seems a lot more repainting. 

Though this image, I did notice that the roundel centres, presumably 'India White',(a mix of 5 parts White to 1 part Roundel Blue as pure White was too bright)  look a very similar tone to the rear of the nacelle in direct sunlight.   A thought occurs, if this has Azure Blue undersides,  perhaps the roundel centres are as well?

 

I've seen very few SEAC Mosquito photos in camo,  as they then switched to overall aluminium dope, this also shows India White roundel centres

 

SEAC Mosquito, 1945. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Also, just noticed, the wing slipper tank looks blue,  bit green for Azure Blue, but WW2 colour can be funny.... leftover slipper tank in Azure Blue? 

 

HTH

[elger]

Some BOAC (Civilian operated) Mosquito IVs also appeared in the temperate scheme of Dark Earth, Dark Green, and Sky

[Troy Smith]

11 minutes ago, elger said:

Some BOAC (Civilian operated) Mosquito IVs also appeared in the temperate scheme of Dark Earth, Dark Green, and Sky

There is a surviving chunk

http://ww2f.com/threads/unique-boac-mosquito-relic-emerges.44424/

 

 

"It's the starboard underwing fuel tank cover which fitted between the engine nacelle and fuselage. One can clearly see the underlying sky blue colour, overpainted in early 1944 with Light Night Black. At the same time, the codes were overpainted from Black to light grey. The identifying National Colours of red/white/blue are still clear."

 

do read the link for full details..... I was used as a shed door for years!!!!!!

[Paramedic]

20 hours ago, elger said:

Some BOAC (Civilian operated) Mosquito IVs also appeared in the temperate scheme of Dark Earth, Dark Green, and Sky

That I actually did know. I live very close to where some of them flew (Stockholm).

 

Thanks again Troy, very helpful.

[Michael louey]

Hi,

 

Not exactly Temperate Scheme though very similar - The early locally made Mosquitos for the RAAF were painted in Foliage Green, Earth Brown and Sky Blue scheme -

 

http://grubbyfingersshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_49&products_id=277

 

I don't think this scheme was used operationally though - most were in all Silver or the later Grey/Green scheme.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[tonyot]

On 9/15/2020 at 7:56 PM, Troy Smith said:

 

In 1943 there was a rationalisation of Mosquito paint schemes,  they were to be finished either in PRU Blue (PR variants) or Night Intruder, overall Medium Sea Grey with Dark Green disruptive pattern on upper surfaces.

as seen in this factory shot

Final assembly of Mosquitos,  1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Any specific requirements were then done at MU (Maintenance Unit) or unit level,  so Coastal Command FB.VI's got repainted in to Extra Dark Sea Grey over Sky.

Mosquito FB.VI, 1944. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

A few FB.VI's got bomber colours,  which had Ocean Grey and Dark Green uppers, these are B.IV from 1943, but show the colour

Mosquito B mk V's       1943. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

More period Mosquito colour here.

 

There is a useful, but limited monograph to Mosquito fighters in NW Europe

here

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Camoflage-Markings/06-De-Havilland-Mosquito

Very good for what it covers, and has details of the factory camo pattern and marking positions and sizes applicable to other versions.

 

 

Interesting, though given Mosquito's were reasonably late in arrival in SEAC (late 44?)  and the SEAC standard then was to add Dark Earth seems a lot more repainting. 

Though this image, I did notice that the roundel centres, presumably 'India White',(a mix of 5 parts White to 1 part Roundel Blue as pure White was too bright)  look a very similar tone to the rear of the nacelle in direct sunlight.   A thought occurs, if this has Azure Blue undersides,  perhaps the roundel centres are as well?

 

I've seen very few SEAC Mosquito photos in camo,  as they then switched to overall aluminium dope, this also shows India White roundel centres

 

SEAC Mosquito, 1945. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Also, just noticed, the wing slipper tank looks blue,  bit green for Azure Blue, but WW2 colour can be funny.... leftover slipper tank in Azure Blue? 

 

HTH

Slipper tank looks to be PRU Blue,.... the colour that the PR aircraft were delivered in.

[KRK4m]

I'm looking for any photos of the FB.VI in NFS with undersides overpainted Night (like in the "intruder" scheme Mk.IIs).

Have you ever encountered such weirdness?

Cheers

Michael

[Graham Boak]

This would because rare, as the Night underside of the Intruder scheme had rather fallen out of use by the time the Mk.VI was commonly in use.  Mk.VIs were used in small numbers in 100 Group as escorts to Bomber Command, so this is likely to be your best place to look.

[EwenS]

18 hours ago, KRK4m said:

I'm looking for any photos of the FB.VI in NFS with undersides overpainted Night (like in the "intruder" scheme Mk.IIs).

Have you ever encountered such weirdness?

Cheers

Michael

Your best bet will be 23 squadron in the Med between May 1943 and May 1944 where Mk.VI augmented and then replaced the Mk.II intruders that they took out in Dec 1942.

 

23 then returned home any used Mosquito Mk.VI with ASH radar in 100 Group. There is artwork of PZ170 YP-D with Night undersides. But the usual warning applies, never trust it without a photo. Maybe also its sister squadron 515.

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Aircam-Aviation-Series/De-Havilland-Mosquito/28-De-Havilland-Mosquito_Page_29-960

 

The other place to look are 418 & 605 squadrons which remained in the night intruder role in Fighter Command until transferring to 2nd TAF in Nov 1944. Like this one:-

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/uk/raf/mosquito2/mosquito-fb-vi-hj719/

 

 

[36feet10inches]

On 15/09/2020 at 19:56, Troy Smith said:

Any specific requirements were then done at MU (Maintenance Unit) or unit level,  so Coastal Command FB.VI's got repainted in to Extra Dark Sea Grey over Sky.

 

I'm building a Coastal Command (Banff Strike Wing) Mossie FB Mk VI at the moment, from the pic I've seen the upper is clearly an overpaint what I wasn't sure about the underside. Don't suppose you know if maintenance or operational units would have reapplied stencils? 

 

Thanks!