Indian MiG-21FL conversion (Eduard) 1/72 - 19apr21 still working on the canopy (started again!), plus the pitot and nose antenna

[Gondor44]

Thank you for posting a picture of your refference material. I am now a happy owner of the Indian Airfoce Patches and marking book 👍

 

Gondor

[RidgeRunner]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:39 PM, Terry1954 said:

but looking at the C of G around the main wheel location area, it may not have been critical.

I reckon you are right, Terry, but I wouldn’t want to take the chance

 

On 12/4/2020 at 6:06 PM, exdraken said:

Very interesting project!

Thanks mate, it is just my kind of thing :). 
 

On 12/4/2020 at 8:22 PM, Courageous said:

Cockpit looking very nice Martin.

 

Stuart

I appreciate your vote of confidence, Stuart. I’m no good at fine detail. My hand shakes a bit too much. I find that setting out the base coats and then carefully dry brushing works reasonably well, especially in this scale .

 

Martin

[RidgeRunner]

5 hours ago, Gondor44 said:

I am now a happy owner of the Indian Airfoce Patches and marking book 👍

You wont regret the purchase, mate

 

Martin

[VT Red Sox Fan]

Martin, really enjoying your progress on this project--best, Erwin

Edited December 6, 2020 by VT Red Sox Fan

[AaCee26]

On 11/30/2020 at 4:59 PM, RidgeRunner said:

Thanks a lot Giorgio @Giorgio N :). That is very useful. The fact that the RV rates higher than the Zvezda on detail is a surprise to me. I suppose to me the question could also be whether an Eduard MF could be converted to a bis using either Zvezda or RV parts? I dont know enough about the detail differences between the MF and the bis.

 

 

Hi Martin,

 

Here are a few gentz who has been studying the Fishbed really deep. I try to put down what they have found..

 

Shortly Zvezda is underside behind the wheel bulges. Rear fuselage is too thin and rear part of the dorsal spine is too narrow. Also it hass some extra panel lines when others are missing. RV/KP Bis is generally better in dimensions, shapes and detail accuracy except the bis spine which in this case is part of the fuselage and too big, at least wide. RV intake was too small in diameter. I think KP claimed that they had corrected it but without a kit in hand I can't check this.

 

Turning Eduard MF into bis can be done using spine either from Zvezda suitable modified, if it is felt necessary or cutting it from either the RV or KP kit and narrowing it. Most economical way would be taking it from KP bis which leaves you parts for an MF...

 

Ì think Eduard MF clear parts contain already a late windscreen with angular side window corners and canopy opening section. Easiest way would be to wait a couple of years for the dedicated bis form them.

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

[RidgeRunner]

Thanks for that @AaCee26. To be honest it will be a year or two before I’m ready for the bis anyway ;)....... Of course, I might get distracted again and then work on one of those conversions . I have an Eduard MF, a spare PFM, a Zvezda bis and an RV bis So I could try any method! 

 

Martin

[Mike]

You win the prize for longest topic title this week You win a 500 error within the next 10 minutes I know I shouldn't joke about it, but it beats blubbering into my cocoa

[RidgeRunner]

9 hours ago, Mike said:

You win the prize for longest topic title this week You win a 500 error within the next 10 minutes I know I shouldn't joke about it, but it beats blubbering into my cocoa

Hi Mike! I've probably picked up that title a few times ;). I've been taking the "500 error" as an accolade to be honest :) . Is it a bug in the system or is my long message overloading things  ...............  

 

Martin

[RidgeRunner]

A little more progress. I'm enjoying this, without the surgery and wrestling :). These Eduard kits are superb and they go together so well.

 

 

Today I drilled out the various intake scoops that are all around the rear of the MiG-21. I have a resin set but I decided to try and do as much as possible from the two kits. The Eduard offerings are well moulded but lack the void, which is obvious in any build. I used a 0.3mm drill initially and then opened out further with a 0.5mm. They are easy to install but, like most Czech kits, hey are just some of the numerous minute parts that require care to avoid loss to the hoover!  I also installed the small (again) fins/actuators under the wing alongside the outer edge of the flaps. I also elected to fit the rear speed brake in the fully retracted position as shown in the photos I have.

 

 

 

Next were the two stakes/fins that sit below the cockpit sides, and are a feature of later Fishbeds including the FL (but not the PF). I thinned them a little because they look a bit "old school" straight off the sprue. These came from the PFM donor kit but could easily be made from card. 

 

 

Next was the ventral strake under the tail. Again, because the FL used the wider-chord fin the chute fairing was above the jetpipe, meaning this strake was also from the PFM kit.

 

 

Similarly the tail pipe housing from the PFM was painted and installed. For this I have used a mix, approximately 8/2 of Humbrol 27002 and 27003. Prior to painting I thinned the edges. Once dried I will buff this and then the dorsal fairing and fin (from the PFM kit) can be cemented in place. I used the same mix to give the intake ring some colour on the inner face.

 

 

I also completed the installation of parts around the cockpit, with the "inner windscreen/HUD combo being masked, painted and cemented in place using Kristal Clear. For this I have used Matt Black as it seems to appear in the photos I have. I could be wrong! Oddly Eduard dont prove a mask for this part so it was a matter of a new blade and Tamiya tape being used. I have then worn theedges a little with a Prismacolor silver pencil. 

 

 

I am leaving the elevons/elevators (or whatever they are formally called) off for now so that I can mask unhindered when I get that far ...... which wont be long

 

 

Here she is with the fin dry fitted - because I'm excited . She looks so slick and supersonic already!

 

 

Hopefully I will get to the filling stage tomorrow, not that there is much filling to do! 

 

I then need to start measuring the black dots on the aircraft ready for Giorgio @Giorgio N and his magic machine to cut me some accurate masks.

 

Martin

 

 

 

 

 

[Courageous]

Some nice detail work Martin and with the that fin fitted, she's looking quite a beast.

 

Stuart

[RidgeRunner]

Hi all,

 

A small update on the FL.

 

Having polished the Humbrol 27002/3 mix on the tail pipe I masked the area in readiness for priming. I’m leaving the tailplanes off at this stage so that I can mask easier and because I want to set these on the correct pivots. This was an angled arrangement and for this I will drill out the fuselage and tailplanes so that I can get 0.5mm brass pegs in place.

 

 

Pylons on. I will mount a centreline tank. I’ve assembled this and drilled out a hole for a locating pin. The kit has very little surface for fixing it. I wanted to use the centreline gun but none of the photos I have show this when in TACDE service. She will have empty missile rails on the wings, though.  

 

 

All round there is very little to fill on these kits. They are so well engineered and moulded. However, in places I have used some PPP to smooth out very small gaps. Truly these are very small and really I’ve done most of it to satisfy myself and not because it is needed. The main area was the joint between the spine and the fuselage. It fits beautifully but I thought a light application of PPP would enhance it.

 

 

She needed some cleaning up at this point. You can see that I’ve used a spare canopy as the mask for the cockpit.  The kit offers two. One for closed positioning and one for open. The PFM kit, of which I have three, has the same sprue so I have plenty of spares. As yet I haven’t decided how I want the canopy. I’d love to show it open. However, I think this particular MiG-21 variant was really slick and so I’m tempted by a closed canopy. I have time to think.

 

I have started to build the seat. I bought a resin seat but I am trying to make this an all-Eduard build* and so I’ve gone for the kit parts. It is nicely done (like the whole kit!) but does have a fair bit of PE – which I hate ☹. Oh well ……. *The only concession will be a Master pitot. The kit part is actually very nice but I’d bought the Master part and it would be folly not to use it, I think. So, I used the kit part, cut off the tube, and drilled it out.

 

The decal masters are now with Arctic Decals and so hopefully they will be winging their way to me soon 😊

 

Primer on (thin Humbrol 1):

 

 

 

and yes, I have to instal the antenna ahead of the windscreen

 

If I have time I will get more paint on this week 😊. First will be a couple of 27002 patches on the fin for the serial and flag positions. Once done and masked I will give the red areas a white base coat.  She is coming together 😊 and I can feel the Su-7 wriggling in the box, begging me to start her!

 

Back soon,

 

Martin

[RidgeRunner]

8 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

She is coming together 😊 and I can feel the Su-7 wriggling in the box, begging me to start her!

And I’ve just ordered two more Airfix MiG-17s to add the one I’ve got on the shelf ;)..... They are partly for the Africa GB  I’ve got MiGmania bad!

 

Martin

[Terry1954]

24 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said:

I’ve got MiGmania bad!

 

I hear there is no cure! 🤣

 

Terry

[RidgeRunner]

Chaps, 

 

I have a dilemma. On looking at the photos I have I am now convinced that my target machine is not the same as the one shown in my earlier image of C754. The circles on the fuselage are different sizes :(. Why didnt I see this before! Also, and here is the point of this post, I think they might not be black. I think they are certainly different from the red nose and tail. That leaves blue and black as possibilities?  Can I ask your opinion on this, please. I know there are some great MiG and Indian experts out there and so your help will be very timely as I will be getting the circles painted next week. Maybe @Stilwell @Linescriber @tomthounaojam @Basilisk @Giorgio N know more? Maybe the keen eyes of @Wez @Courageous @Terry1954 @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies @Timmas @Wulfman @lasermonkey or others may have a view?  Irrespective of the colours I have the decals now for "C754", which was a MiG Killer and I will use those unless anyone can offer me the real ID of this aircraft. It will, in that case, be representative of the colour scheme only.

 

Target machine:

 

 

C754 in flight:

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Martin

 

 

[Terry1954]

So here's my view.

 

In that first picture above, the circles look to me to be the same tone as the red nose (I assume that is red as you suggest, but not seen it in colour). I'm not saying the circles are red, but if you look at where the front circle touches the red nose part (top left of the middle guys shoulder), the tone looks no different.

 

In the second picture above, the circles look very slightly darker than the red on the nose, but compared to the centre green dot of the nose roundel, the tone does not appear any darker than that, suggesting it may not be black. One final comparison I would make is with the the crest between the middle guy and left most guy in the first picture. In that crest there is a centre dark vertical line with a dot above it. What colour is that? I ask, as to me it appears much darker than the circles.

 

That's the best I can do!

 

Terry

[RidgeRunner]

26 minutes ago, Terry1954 said:

In that crest there is a centre dark vertical line with a dot above it. What colour is that? I ask, as to me it appears much darker than the circles.

 

That is black, Terry. I now wonder if the circles are, in fact, red. To be honest, when @Linescriber sent me the first image (the top one) he said they were red. However, later guidance I had from others was that they were black. I now doubt the black, preferring red, but considering blue as in the top image. 

 

[Giorgio N]

Best I can say is that I believe both B/W pictures show red circles, assuming the nose is red. In the first picture they look to be the same colour of the nose. In the other picture (with pilot entering the aircraft) the circle look darker but looking at the rear end of the coloured area in the nose the tone looks the same considering the angle.

[RidgeRunner]

2 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Best I can say is that I believe both B/W pictures show red circles, assuming the nose is red. In the first picture they look to be the same colour of the nose. In the other picture (with pilot entering the aircraft) the circle look darker but looking at the rear end of the coloured area in the nose the tone looks the same considering the angle.

Yes, I am now leaning towards red. My other option was blue but I think that would show slightly lighter than the red. Given @Linescriber's initial comment, and a review now, I reckon it'll be red. It does mean that the serial could be wrong! If so, I am sorry Giorgio! It will give me the option of the black circled C754 though at a later date

 

Martin

  

[Giorgio N]

1 minute ago, RidgeRunner said:

Yes, I am now leaning towards red. My other option was blue but I think that would show slightly lighter than the red. Given @Linescriber's initial comment, and a review now, I reckon it'll be red. It does mean that the serial could be wrong! If so, I am sorry Giorgio! It will give me the option of the black circled C754 though at a later date

 

Martin

  

 

If you can track the serial number of the aircraft in the B/W pictures, it will be easy to print a couple of codes.

I would also expect those circles to be applied using less than permanent paint, so maybe she was 754 in an earlier scheme ?

[RidgeRunner]

I wish it was that easy, Giorgio @Giorgio N, but it isn't . For months I've tried to pin this down but the Indian authorities are secretive, ex-IAF contacts I have cant trace it, and records like Bharat-Rakshak dont show anything. That's a kind offer but I think that in the end I will mark her as C754 in memorium of a Indo-Pakistan war veteran. She certainl;y was operated by the TACDE, seconded (I think) from 8sqn. C754 certainly survived a while. You can see her in service with 8 sqn "Pursoots" in the image above and at the end of her career she was at the MOFTU at Tezpur. Again, there is a photo of her there. Both images were taken post-TACDE and show the additional wing pylons that were fitted later in the FL's service. 

 

Martin

 

[Giorgio N]

That's the beauty of research Martin, days and days looking at pictures and searching records only to be left with doubts at the very end of the build... 🤣

Sometime I feel that I should just go back to taking a profile from the web and built that one without asking questions...

[RidgeRunner]

oo.. profiles .... the spawn of the devil, purposely fooling modellers!  The truth is that many schemes offered by decal sheet producers and publications are guesswork. The prime example is camouflage patterns. Sometimes, like the case of my Mali UTI MiG-15 where only one image seems to exist in which you can only see some of the wing surfaces, you have to make a judgement. It will be the case with my eventual Indian MiG-21bis "C2776" but at least HAD decals was honest about it!

 

Anyway, I will get the white undercoat on the model today and hopefully I'll come to a conclusion about the circl;es by Monday, when I will get the red on :). I'm going for Insignia Red in the absence of any good data.  

 

Martin 

[HOUSTON]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financialexpress.com/defence/mig-21-the-fighter-jet-that-arrived-in-india-in-1963-and-still-plays-a-major-role/1500436/lite/

 

 

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/mig-21-fls-indian-history-air-chief-marshal-n.a.k.-browne-watershed-moment-in-the-iafs-history-220438-2013-12-11

 

photo of Indian  MoG21FL.

the photos expand once clicked on.

 

 

You're doing a Fantastic  job.

 

   

 

[HOUSTON]

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Galleries/Aircraft/Vintage/Fighters/MiG21FL/

 

 

[RidgeRunner]

5 minutes ago, HOUSTON said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financialexpress.com/defence/mig-21-the-fighter-jet-that-arrived-in-india-in-1963-and-still-plays-a-major-role/1500436/lite/

 

 

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/mig-21-fls-indian-history-air-chief-marshal-n.a.k.-browne-watershed-moment-in-the-iafs-history-220438-2013-12-11

 

photo of Indian  MoG21FL.

the photos expand once clicked on.

 

 

You're doing a Fantastic  job.

 

   

 

Hi @HOUSTON. All I can see are links that show a Bison!