heloman1 Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Another interesting build project Neil. I like the way you are tackling the 'odd' dimensions and the Herc cowlings will look the part. As for an FM kit, I've built one (H-22 Banana), never again!!! Still busy with the bike builds this side. Popcorn and front row seat... Colin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 On 9/14/2020 at 11:50 AM, mick b said: Neil, from the sublime (B17) to the ridiculous ! 😂 I too have one in the stash that I wish to do as accurately as possible as my Uncle served with 144 Squadron before being killed in 42. What may be of note is that you are using the current Warpaint plans by Caruana and I believe Melchie has the plans from Aviation News by Ian Huntley, the latter I recently got from a guy on eBay so maybe a discrepancy there too? Mike This certainly is the ridiculous Mike, it's fighting every damn step. This won't be one of my best, caertainly on the interior, I'm aiming to get the layout approximately right and just detail where can be seen. Sorry to hear that your uncle lost his life, was it in a Hampden? I guess it creates a meaningful connection. The drawings could be different, however I suspect the biggest difference is the use of a different datum point. On 9/14/2020 at 12:17 PM, corsaircorp said: Well, how can I say it... Rule has been used but the guy who created the masters has big problem of sight at the time... I don't know if he's still alive... and is so, he's surely blind. For once, I'm talking seriously... I've had the masters of the Stirling at hand years ago, and it was worst than the Hampden... Then, the guy was working at Air France and created his masters while he was at work... (Shhh do not tell it to the HR manager) This may explain that. Good luck Woody. I don't know if Pierre @BS103 still have his own plans.. But if I remember well there was also a twist in references plans... I don't know wich one is the right one... Let me know if you need it, I can ask Pierre. Sincerely. CC I think given the starting point, getting it to look roughly right will be a successful outcome. As such, I'm comfortable using the drawings I have, the biggest issue is lacking both skill and patience to take this by the balls and create a work of art. As long as I can gwet it looking rightish and do a half decent job on the transparencies, the paint job should hide any major issues. At the very least, it should look better than just assembling it, thanks. On 9/14/2020 at 12:51 PM, heloman1 said: Another interesting build project Neil. I like the way you are tackling the 'odd' dimensions and the Herc cowlings will look the part. As for an FM kit, I've built one (H-22 Banana), never again!!! Still busy with the bike builds this side. Popcorn and front row seat... Colin I think this will be my last FM kit mate. Fingers crossed we see both the Halibag and Hampden newly tooled at some point. It amazes me how many German aircraft we can buy in this scale that never even flew, but not aircraft that got us through some difficult periods in WWII. So, a few updates. As I say, this thing is fighting and I'm not particularly enjoying the work I'm doing on it. Lots of mistakes, reworks and some messy workmanship on the interior but the shape is fairly accurate now. I may leave the fuselage for a while and move to the wings for a break. I don't have the desire for mega accuracy, just something that looks busy and representative when looking through the windows or open parts. There's a big sheet of plasticard covering the side walls that extends to the rear as you can see here. It serves two purposes. The first reinforcing the spine where a cut was made because I kept cracking the join. The second to hide the wing root. My current thinking is to get a basic level of detail in then move to making the moulds for the transparencies as I may need to sit these in place whilst measuring up so can't have any detail sticking out and getting in the way such as the pilots seat. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Woody, I have had a nagging doubt at the back of my mind as to the wisdom of doing a dual build with our beloved General. Luckily I have located the doubt in time, or at least I hope I have. Make sure Melchie has left his set of Armstrong Whitworth cannonettes at home. He may well have got dual and duel mixed up. The last time this happened, we were cleaning up the mess for a month of Sundays afterwards. Concerned of Mars 👽 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsaircorp Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Hello Woody, I saw Pierre yesterday, he has used the drawings from Ian Huntley, After a check at Cosford, these are the most accurate. @BS103 is now engulfed in his Avro Lincoln... 41 minutes ago, Martian said: Woody, I have had a nagging doubt at the back of my mind as to the wisdom of doing a dual build with our beloved General. Luckily I have located the doubt in time, or at least I hope I have. Make sure Melchie has left his set of Armstrong Whitworth cannonettes at home. He may well have got dual and duel mixed up. The last time this happened, we were cleaning up the mess for a month of Sundays afterwards. Concerned of Mars 👽 Hello Dear Alien... Don't you worry about the AW cannonettes... Nothing compare to a good Colt Anaconda... Indeed, you are concerned, that's why we both love you.. Sincerely. CC 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 50 minutes ago, Martian said: Woody, I have had a nagging doubt at the back of my mind as to the wisdom of doing a dual build with our beloved General. Luckily I have located the doubt in time, or at least I hope I have. Make sure Melchie has left his set of Armstrong Whitworth cannonettes at home. He may well have got dual and duel mixed up. The last time this happened, we were cleaning up the mess for a month of Sundays afterwards. Concerned of Mars 👽 😂😂 building this kit will produce enough blood without a duel entering the foray, i best be on my guard 😂 7 minutes ago, corsaircorp said: Hello Woody, I saw Pierre yesterday, he has used the drawings from Ian Huntley, After a check at Cosford, these are the most accurate. @BS103 is now engulfed in his Avro Lincoln... Hello Dear Alien... Don't you worry about the AW cannonettes... Nothing compare to a good Colt Anaconda... Indeed, you are concerned, that's why we both love you.. Sincerely. CC Now I’d like to see that Lincoln, tell him not to be shy and share his progress 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsaircorp Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 It is not a matter of shy... Pierre totally dislike technology... He got his PC but.... I think that he will be in SMW '21 with a finished Lincoln The Battle is finished.... I mean the Fairey one... He also shared a load of pic from Cosford with the General... No problems for you to benefit from these pic Sincerely. CC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick b Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 4 hours ago, woody37 said: This certainly is the ridiculous Mike, it's fighting every damn step. This won't be one of my best, caertainly on the interior, I'm aiming to get the layout approximately right and just detail where can be seen. Sorry to hear that your uncle lost his life, was it in a Hampden? I guess it creates a meaningful connection. Hi Neil, yes 144 was a Hampden Squadron and as was often the case back then he lost his life in a flying exercise as opposed to enemy action and the cause was never really established. Good luck with the build, cracking progress so far. Mike. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 11 hours ago, mick b said: Hi Neil, yes 144 was a Hampden Squadron and as was often the case back then he lost his life in a flying exercise as opposed to enemy action and the cause was never really established. Good luck with the build, cracking progress so far. Mike. So sorry to hear it Mike, it makes it all the more tragic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 I've taken a break from the fuselage today so turned to sorting the wings out. The main thing to do is tidy the trailing edges and wing tips up and I can work on the surfaces once the halves are glued together. I've found superglue the best for this type of job I'm allergic to it, so it makes for an interesting battle! hmmm! Work started on the port wing. Because the flaps and ailerons have been cut out, there's a gap that needs to be filled. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Quote I have had a nagging doubt at the back of my mind as to the wisdom of doing a dual build with our beloved General. Luckily I have located the doubt in time, or at least I hope I have. Make sure Melchie has left his set of Armstrong Whitworth cannonettes at home. He may well have got dual and duel mixed up. I also misread the label Martian, the AWs were at the ready, primed and ready to go. Luckily I read your comment before loading them into the back of the hearse, ready for the slog up to Warrington to do battle with my old mucka the Duke of Woodminster beneath the viaduct at Sankey Valley Park, a particularly beautiful spot for a bit of cannonette carnage. Quote saw Pierre yesterday, he has used the drawings from Ian Huntley, After a check at Cosford, these are the most accurate. Yes CC, the Ian Huntley drawings are the best we've got right now and these are what I used here. Anyhoo, back here at Melchett Towers work commences unabated at dredging out old photos from two years ago on the stalled Hampden. To keep things aligned with Neil's build, here is what I did to the interior of the old bus. The usual lengths of Evergreen, rods, strips and 0.5mm card were slaughtered in the process and plenty of reference material trawled through and referred to. The result was this, portapotty came courtesy of 6mm copper tubing. The ladder was made up from rod as well and suitable side wall hooks made from scrap lead wire and placcy strip. The pilot's seat, control column, I/P panel etc were also painted at the same time, I'll photograph those a bit later and post as I forgot to do it at the time, old age I'm afraid. Plenty more detail to go in yet...all good fun til' it came to putting the blessed thing together.....a bit of a one-sided battle but perseverance and bloody-mindedness won through in the end. Next installment..the wings and tailplaney bits... 16 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) Actually, as Neil is racing along with the wings I thought I'd better post a few images as there's a distinct issue with one of them. On my port wing I found there was a discrepancy between the depth of the wing root and the depth of the fuselage 'stub' root, made worse by the fact that both wings are set at slightly different heights on the fuselage when viewed from head-on, (the left being set higher than the right and the right wing root being thinner by 2mm to the left). The left inner wing section from the wing root to the nacelle was also moulded incorrectly being at a different angle to that of the right wing (too flat). What a to do! I found packing the left inner edge with card, cut to a taper, helped. I then cut the inner edge of the left engine nacelle, about 1/3rd along its length and made two cuts into the mating edge of the forward end of the wing to release any pressure when bending the leading edge to meet the lower wing so that it matched the profile of the fuselage wing root section. The resultant curved gap was then filled with plastic card and filler before being sanded to shape. I used my digital caliper to check the wing depth so that everything appeared even across the surfaces. For some reason the right wing was spot on. The wing height discrepancy was dealt with by reshaping the left root 'stub' (shaving 2mm from the top and filling the bottom edge until it matched the profile) and matched the position of the right wing. The locating tongue was removed, it's position altered and replaced, using 4mm plastic card. Apols for long winded text, as they say, a photograph's worth a thousand words.. You can see not only the height discrepancy but also the effect this had on the engine nacelle. This shows the cut line along the nacelle and where the leading edge had to be raised to match the correct profile. The parts filled and awaiting blending. The small dotted lines on the forward end of the wing root are where the cut marks were made to allow the wing leading edge to be repositioned to match the airfoil section. At the same time the landing light bay was boxed in using 0.5mm card. Next up were the wing tip nav and anti-collision lights which were missing from the kit. These were cut from the wing tips and replaced using scrap clear styrene with 1mm holes drilled into them and red/green paint applied. Hope at least some of this makes sense... Edited September 20, 2020 by general melchett 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 @general melchett lovely progress and much neater work than on mine. My wings were the same as yours, like what you’ve done with the slot along the nacelle to allow the leading edge to raise. I’ve fitted a spar and was intending to force the correct profile but think I’ll copy your method to relieve the stress 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janneman36 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 On 9/13/2020 at 11:51 PM, bentwaters81tfw said: Knowing FM's propensity for mis-measurement, you two have probably got fuselages of differing lengths. On 9/14/2020 at 1:17 PM, corsaircorp said: Well, how can I say it... Rule has been used but the guy who created the masters has big problem of sight at the time... I don't know if he's still alive... and is so, he's surely blind. For once, I'm talking seriously... I've had the masters of the Stirling at hand years ago, and it was worst than the Hampden... Then, the guy was working at Air France and created his masters while he was at work... (Shhh do not tell it to the HR manager) This may explain that. Good luck Woody. I don't know if Pierre @BS103 still have his own plans.. But if I remember well there was also a twist in references plans... I don't know wich one is the right one... Let me know if you need it, I can ask Pierre. Sincerely. CC To all interested😉 the measuring was done in the good old UK !! I had a weak spot regarding the Hampden and had two in the stash🤫 one from Contrail the vacform and the Fonderie and guess what🤨 After comparing both kits to see wich one was the best I had one conclusion, Fonderie simply copied the Contrail one as everything was exactly the same in size and fit and all part therefore were interchangeable..even the windows were on the exact same location😁 Certain things were altered for getting it ready for the injection moulding machine . The only thing that was a plus on the Fonderie is that it is not a vacform.. But general I have to give it to you that are doing a fine job in tackling this beast as I still have to start mine after a odd 25 years 🤔 cheers, Jan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 A veritable orgy of white styrene General and very nicely done too. Martian 👽 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsaircorp Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Martian said: A veritable orgy of white styrene General and very nicely done too. Martian 👽 Coming from a white Styrene addicted !! It's more than a congratulation !! Now, I must say that I got the white Styrene fever too... But our dear Alien and his generalship are a source of inspiration for me CC 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsaircorp Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 2 hours ago, janneman36 said: To all interested😉 the measuring was done in the good old UK !! I had a weak spot regarding the Hampden and had two in the stash🤫 one from Contrail the vacform and the Fonderie and guess what🤨 After comparing both kits to see wich one was the best I had one conclusion, Fonderie simply copied the Contrail one as everything was exactly the same in size and fit and all part therefore were interchangeable..even the windows were on the exact same location😁 Certain things were altered for getting it ready for the injection moulding machine . The only thing that was a plus on the Fonderie is that it is not a vacform.. But general I have to give it to you that are doing a fine job in tackling this beast as I still have to start mine after a odd 25 years 🤔 cheers, Jan I know that Jacques took some "inspiration" from Contrail and Sanger... But now, who took his place ?? I don't know... CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorenSharp Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 22 hours ago, general melchett said: Actually, as Neil is racing along with the wings I thought I'd better post a few images as there's a distinct issue with one of them. On my port wing I found there was a discrepancy between the depth of the wing root and the depth of the fuselage 'stub' root, made worse by the fact that both wings are set at slightly different heights on the fuselage when viewed from head-on, (the left being set higher than the right and the right wing root being thinner by 2mm to the left). The left inner wing section from the wing root to the nacelle was also moulded incorrectly being at a different angle to that of the right wing (too flat). What a to do! I found packing the left inner edge with card, cut to a taper, helped. I then cut the inner edge of the left engine nacelle, about 1/3rd along its length and made two cuts into the mating edge of the forward end of the wing to release any pressure when bending the leading edge to meet the lower wing so that it matched the profile of the fuselage wing root section. The resultant curved gap was then filled with plastic card and filler before being sanded to shape. I used my digital caliper to check the wing depth so that everything appeared even across the surfaces. For some reason the right wing was spot on. The wing height discrepancy was dealt with by reshaping the left root 'stub' (shaving 2mm from the top and filling the bottom edge until it matched the profile) and matched the position of the right wing. The locating tongue was removed, it's position altered and replaced, using 4mm plastic card. Apols for long winded text, as they say, a photograph's worth a thousand words.. You can see not only the height discrepancy but also the effect this had on the engine nacelle. Hope at least some of this makes sense... Excellent work woody and General, as always. Aside from issues with the fuselage the wrong shape ,differences with the wing , and other discrepancies seems to be rather accurate straight out of the box. Ahem. Which begs one to wonder is FM isn't French for "really horrendous Homemade plastic garage model kit. But like Vacs, limited run kits are challenges that make modelling fun, but interesting. Seeing the outstanding progress thus far on both kits, no doubt when completed will be excellent examples for the display shelf or the museum. Besides, I have a Sanger Hampden in the stash and both of these builds are giving me volumes of information and work arounds when the time comes to start, If I can live that long and finish everything else inbetween.😜 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) On 9/20/2020 at 4:07 PM, general melchett said: Hope at least some of this makes sense.. That’s ok we are used to you Some serious modelling going on here. Very impressed. Edited September 21, 2020 by Marklo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) Quote general melchett lovely progress and much neater work than on mine. My wings were the same as yours, like what you’ve done with the slot along the nacelle to allow the leading edge to raise. I’ve fitted a spar and was intending to force the correct profile but think I’ll copy your method to relieve the stress It's an illusion mate, caused by lack of alcohol, lockdown fever and lack of having any filler lying around the cave. Please copy away, all we need are two half-decent models for our table and before you know it, we'll be halfway back to Blighty in time for tea and biscuits. Did you enjoy your day at the tip? Quote A veritable orgy of white styrene General and very nicely done too. Thanks Martian old friend....thought it would be right up your alley... Quote Aside from issues with the fuselage the wrong shape ,differences with the wing , and other discrepancies seems to be rather accurate straight out of the box. Very nearly...actually add to that, dreadful badly fitting 'clear' parts and you have yourself a recipe for the modelling equivalent of a nervous breakdown. To be honest, the white metal and resin parts are rather nicely done, and the box art is half decent and, and...(OK, I'm struggling now)...anyway, who wants a boring 'shake'n'bake' kit that can be built in under a decade and look completely accurate when done... Quote That’s ok we are used to you Thanks Marklo...must keep you blokes on your toes, reputation of the regiment and all that... In other news...The kit cowls are more than a bit basic, being moulded in two halves, (egg-shaped), with overly pronounced gill rings, blunt nose rings with too big an 'ole at the front...in a word, awful, so I asked Aircraft In Miniature (AIM) for help and a day later the stl.files arrived. As with their Argus conversion, a choice of open and closed gills are included. I immediately printed a few copies off and the results speak for themselves. All AIM products are only available from Hannants and these will be available shortly. A pair will be winging their way to Neil in the near future so at least we should have a fighting chance with both kits now. I also asked if they could help with Halifax cowlings and Hercules engines for the FM kit. These files duly arrived and were printed at the same time, again an excellent fit. Looking forward to using them in the near future... Anyway, here are the new parts. Hampden with a choice of two open and two closed gill rings. The original kit cowl is to the left, as you can see, it has a few problems... And the Halifax Hercules cowls, again, open and closed gill rings are included. (eight in total) Hercules engine, consisting of multiple interlocking sections and rear details, (quickly dry-fitted here, hence misaligned manifolds...everything lines up just fine). Edited September 21, 2020 by general melchett 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 Superb mate, the engines are going to be the best bits on my build! Pass my thanks on to Aim for their help 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 No problem, I'll get a set in the post to you this week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Fantastic job lads an I am so glad that you have both started this,....... as it means that a new Airfix kit should be due to be announced directly after you have finished,.... as usual,..... although it didn`t happen with the Halifax! I have the kit in the stash,...... but looking at what is needed,...... it might jut be staying there too! Good luck fella`s,.... couldn`t have two better modellers on the case, Cheers Tony 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Quote as it means that a new Airfix kit should be due to be announced directly after you have finished,.... as usual, Cheers Tony, the thought had crossed my mind too, would be nice. If that's the case then the sooner I start my 1/48th IFA/Aeroclub Vulcan hybrid project, the better. There's a fair bit to do on this one but I've had worse.........er, nothing particular springs to mind but I'm pretty sure I have.....I think 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heloman1 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 On 9/20/2020 at 3:59 PM, general melchett said: I also misread the label Martian, the AWs were at the ready, primed and ready to go. Luckily I read your comment before loading them into the back of the hearse, ready for the slog up to Warrington to do battle with my old mucka the Duke of Woodminster beneath the viaduct at Sankey Valley Park, a particularly beautiful spot for a bit of cannonette carnage. Yes CC, the Ian Huntley drawings are the best we've got right now and these are what I used here. Anyhoo, back here at Melchett Towers work commences unabated at dredging out old photos from two years ago on the stalled Hampden. To keep things aligned with Neil's build, here is what I did to the interior of the old bus. The usual lengths of Evergreen, rods, strips and 0.5mm card were slaughtered in the process and plenty of reference material trawled through and referred to. The result was this, portapotty came courtesy of 6mm copper tubing. The ladder was made up from rod as well and suitable side wall hooks made from scrap lead wire and placcy strip. The pilot's seat, control column, I/P panel etc were also painted at the same time, I'll photograph those a bit later and post as I forgot to do it at the time, old age I'm afraid. Plenty more detail to go in yet...all good fun til' it came to putting the blessed thing together.....a bit of a one-sided battle but perseverance and bloody-mindedness won through in the end. Next installment..the wings and tailplaney bits... Neat work on the interior there General. Colin 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 22 hours ago, tonyot said: Fantastic job lads an I am so glad that you have both started this,....... as it means that a new Airfix kit should be due to be announced directly after you have finished,.... as usual,..... although it didn`t happen with the Halifax! I have the kit in the stash,...... but looking at what is needed,...... it might jut be staying there too! Good luck fella`s,.... couldn`t have two better modellers on the case, Cheers Tony This one is challenging everything in the resilience bank mate! Hopefully, we're taking one or two for the team! come on Airfix! Cheers mate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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