FM 1/48 Hampden - Duel Build with the General!

[woody37]

EDIT: Our young @general melchett is coming on board with his build so these things are like buses from now! He's much further ahead than me so hoping I can steal some ideas with pride! Welcome about Andy

 

Yesterday I started tinkering with the FM Hampden that I acquired thanks to Colin @crobinsonh some time ago. It sat on the 'too hard to do' shelf until this weekend when curiosity led me to see what was possible. It was only after several hours did I realise that I'd started it so I thought I'd share it here as a form of accountability to carry on! First things first was to upscale the Warpaint drawings to 48th scale. I know some of you find this stuff easy, but it was a game of trial and error for me. If my calculations are correct, it needed enlarging by 1.5, but comparing the dimensions with the real aircraft (scale corrected) and the kit led me to using a scale up of 1.47. This was a first for me and now feel better equipped for the build. 

 

I've heard of the need to chop bits up on the fuselage and this proved correct if the drawings are reliable enough to go by. Key errors I can see are:

 

1. Upper spine tapers towards the rear of the cockpit leading to the cockpit being too low

2. Nose slightly too long and windown slightly out of position

3. Rear lower gun position - no taper rear of the bomb bay making it too deep

4. Upper rear gun position - cut out is wrong

 

Rather than cutting sections out to correct the spine, the first step was to cut the upper fuselage horizontally across the panel line. Because the plastic is quite soft, rather than cutting the section out completely, I wedged a piece of tapered plastic in to align the fuselage half with the drawing from the rear of the cockpit to the rear turret. I then used a bit more plasticards to level off the cockpit area as good as I could by eye to the drawing. The next step was to cut and fill the rear turret aperture and trim a bit off the nose. 

 

What are the plans?

1. Cut the bomb bay doors out and scratch build a bomb bay

2. Vac form new clear parts for nose, cockpit, lower rear gun position - this will be the most time consuming part I reckon

3. Scratch build the interior where necessary

4. Do something about the engines! Not sure what yet, maybe a left over Halifax engine might be better than what I've got here or @general melchett, do you have any magic up your sleeve? I know you've started on yours so welcome any input on what your approach is.

 

Here's the progress...

 

The bits in white are plasticard to correct the shape

 

 

This half doesn't look as bad as the other around the cockpit but that is partly due to the angle of the camera when taking the photo. You can see how there is a lock of taper around the lower rear gun, it's just straight, where as I've filed the port side for comparison. It will be cut away and replaced by a single clear piece later.

 

And against the drawing...

 

Overall the wing looks OK ish. Colin has already cut the flaps and ailerons out but what this emphasises is differences between the top and bottom panel lines where they meet the flap so come corrective work will be required there. If anyone has any good photo's of such areas, I welcome input along the way

 

 

There's no going back now, I've started 😵

 

 

[PattheCat]

Just took a seat. Never dared a FM kit. Still hoping for one new tool Hampden from Airfix.

[elger]

brave!

 

This morning I happened to cycle past the crash site of Hampden AE185 - they've put up a monument recently. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/53211

 

 

[woody37]

26 minutes ago, PattheCat said:

Just took a seat. Never dared a FM kit. Still hoping for one new tool Hampden from Airfix.

Hopefully, I'm taking one for the team and we'll see an announcement just before I'm done...or gone to the looney bin!

11 minutes ago, elger said:

brave!

 

This morning I happened to cycle past the crash site of Hampden AE185 - they've put up a monument recently. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/53211

 

 

Sad end, just hope their end was fast. I'm not sure what scheme I'm doing yet, but something with a high demarcation line though.

[bbudde]

Me too here,  as I saw your other builds here and there with quite a joy.

Cheers

[Mr T]

Well, I thought building a Mach2 kit was advanced modelling! Good luck  and  I take my hat off to you. The Hercules engine from a Halifax is a different beastie from the Pegasus. The Pegasus was a nine cylinder  single row engine whereas the Hercules was a two row 14 cylinder engine and so using half an engine leaves two cylinders short. The cylinder shape is different as well due to the Hercules being a sleeve valve engine. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Mr T
Making sense

[Radleigh]

Well if theres a man for the job... it's you! I very nearly bought one for £120 not long back, but had to resist.... do love the Hampden though, so i'll be following this Woody. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Radleigh

[Quiet Mike]

One of my favourite 'planes, in my favourite scale ... I can understand the strong pull to do this, despite the work involved. I'm looking forward to seeing what you can make out of it. (And another wishful thinker hoping Airfix will produce a new tool in 1/48)

[bentwaters81tfw]

Czech Master do Pegasus, although not the right variant. Probably close enough though.

[woody37]

2 hours ago, Mr T said:

Well, I thought building a Mach2 kit was advanced modelling! Good luck  and  I take my hat off to you. The Hercules engine from a Halifax is a different beastie from the Pegasus. The Pegasus was a nine cylinder  single row engine whereas the Hercules was a two row 14 cylinder engine and so using half an engine leaves two cylinders short. The cylinder shape is different as well due to the Hercules being a sleeve valve engine. 

Mach 2 up is advanced modelling, I watched your York grow into a beauty

1 hour ago, Radleigh said:

Well if theres a man for the job... it's you! I very nearly bought one for £120 not long back, but had to resist.... do love the Hampden though, so i'll be following this Woody. 

£120, wow, scarcity has a funny impact on modeller behaviours, especially with what you get in the box!

35 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Czech Master do Pegasus, although not the right variant. Probably close enough though.

There’s some resin engines in the box, it’s the nacelles that are dreadful. I will get some photos up at some point but want to see  what I can do to improve on things

 

Airfix, if you’ve got plans to release one in 48th scale, please let me know before I embark on this journey!

 

cheers

neil

[bentwaters81tfw]

Airfix said no Hampden until the Cosford example is restored.

[Martian]

An FM kit for your sins. What in the blue blazes did you do?

 

Martian 👽

[general melchett]

Got yer email mate. FM eh, now, where to begin....

 

Hopefully  this will shed a bit of light on proceedings. Here's one I prepared earlier, as they say (actually a couple of years ago).

 

Firstly, when measured against the scaled drawings you can see the issue with the positioning of almost all fuselage parts.....thankfully the wings aren't too far off but more about those later! Also note the ventral gunners position is too deep as well as too far aft. There's more to it than that but we'll keep it simple for now, (being a simple sort of chap).

 

 

 

 

Here the mid upper has been aligned but look at the forward end.

 

 

 

 

 

After a lot of measuring (5 times to one cut) the parts were separated.

 

 

 

 

Cut segments aligned.

 

 

 

 

Inner faces reinforced, internal ribbing and full interior will be added (actually, was added as it's all done now).

 

 

 

 

New parts assembled and in fill sections added. The nose glazing also needed to be relocated as it was too far forward, card was used and blended to shape.

 

 

 

'New' fuselage against the drawings.  After checking everything the section housing the ventral gunners position was then cut and moved back into position (as well as reduced in height).

 

 

 

There's a fair bit more that I've done but I'll add that later as you progress. To be honest this part didn’t take that long, the constant measuring took most of the  time. I got as far as breaking out Rosie for a complete riveting job before other things took over, you know, life, family, hols and all that malarky...

 

Hope it helps, my old mucka.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by general melchett

[woody37]

24 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Airfix said no Hampden until the Cosford example is restored.

They'd better pull their finger out although when I spoke to the chap in the rennovation hall last year, he told me that it was going to Hendon and they didn't intend to put it together, preffering to leave the wings off and the fuselage split up as an interactive experience. Not a vision that I share 😬

20 minutes ago, Martian said:

An FM kit for your sins. What in the blue blazes did you do?

 

Martian 👽

I'm currently retracing my steps, I'm not sure 🤣

 

I've just taken a few pics. The first two are the kit Pegasus cowlings taped together and the one to the left is a Herc cowling left over from the Halifax build. I want to have the gills open so I will need to scratch build them anyway. with that in mind, I might use the Herc ones as the diameter is pretty much the same and I can cut it shorter and leave a bit on to glue the gills too. The nose of the Herc needs sanding to a more blunt profile but that's probably easier than tidying the collector ring up on the Pegasus cowling.

 

 

 

The other challenge I'm looking at is the flap areas. The panel lines on each wing don't align so I'm going to build the trailing edge up on one wing to match the other using a strip of plasticard. I've marked up the upper and lower edges on each wing for comparison

 

[woody37]

23 minutes ago, general melchett said:

Got yer email mate. FM eh, now, where to begin....

 

Hopefully  this will shed a bit of light on proceedings. Here's one I prepared earlier, as they say (actually a couple of years ago).

 

Firstly, when measured against the scaled drawings you can see the issue with the positioning of almost all fuselage parts.....thankfully the wings aren't too far off but more about those later! Also note the ventral gunners position is too deep as well as too far aft. There's more to it than that but we'll keep it simple for now, (being a simple sort of chap).

 

 

There's a fair bit more that I've done but I'll add that later as you progress.  I got as far as breaking out Rosie for a complete riveting job before other things took over, you know, life, family, hols and all that malarky...

 

Hope it helps, my old mucka.

 

 

Thanks for coming along mate, I new you'd posted them a while ago but coludn't find them.

 

That's interesting mate and explains how we've taken a different approach. I've used the front edge of the windscreen as a datum rather than the front of the fuselage and when you do that, there isn't that much wrong. Most things align fairly well including the bomb bay doors and upper gun position

 

 

 

On this photo, the windscreen base frame looks too short & canopy base too long, but it's the way the camera angle has caught it. 

 

Cheers

Neil

[general melchett]

As you say, interesting,  I think both approaches should work well. I wanted the nose contours and overall fuselage depth to align as the forward fuselage was a little too deep which in turn affected the shape of other areas, removing the bomb doors helped. Must admit, I’m happy with the shape now, really must kick-start the old thing back to life. Happy to clack alongside...

 

Nice idea with the engine cowlings, 

Edited September 17, 2020 by general melchett

[bentwaters81tfw]

Knowing FM's propensity for mis-measurement, you two have probably got fuselages of differing lengths.

[woody37]

1 minute ago, general melchett said:

As you say, interesting,  I think both approaches should work well. I wanted the nose contours and overall fuselage depth to align as the forward fuselage was a little too deep which in turn affected the shape of other areas, removing the bomb doors helped. Must admit, I’m happy with the shape now, really must kick-start the old thing back to life. Happy to clack alongside...

 

Nice idea with the engine cowlings, I might well end up 3D printing a pair, with open gills, all depends on what side of the bed my CAD designer man got out of today and if I can bribe him with a few Oreo doughnuts...

You need to crack on mate 

 

Because I'm reforming the nose (the nose parts are dinted in mine from the way I've stored it doh!), it makes sense to take this approach and I can sort the nose contour with the new parts.

 

If you do a couple of cowlings, think of your mate in Warrington beavering away....pretty please! 

 

Cheers

2 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Knowing FM's propensity for mis-measurement, you two have probably got fuselages of differing lengths.

I've got two halves of different height! One needed packing much more than the other!

[LorenSharp]

A brave man indeed to take on a FM project. I'll follow along if its ok, I might even learn some new how shall we say "More colourful metaphors"  Both yours and the Generals correction processes  for the Hampton are interesting

[LorenSharp]

4 minutes ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Knowing FM's propensity for mis-measurement, you two have probably got fuselages of differing lengths.

Could be how the French like to measure things, or use a rule to measure things ?

[CJP]

Hi Woody - great to see you tackling an FM kit and watching how you approach the build.

CJP

 

[bentwaters81tfw]

Just now, LorenSharp said:

Could be how the French like to measure things, or use a rule to measure things ?

I had thought of that.

 

5 minutes ago, woody37 said:

 

I've got two halves of different height! One needed packing much more than the other!

They were probably using the Halifax asymmetry for inspiration.

[mick b]

Neil, from the sublime (B17) to the ridiculous ! 😂

 

I too have one in the stash that I wish to do as accurately as possible as my Uncle served with 144 Squadron before being killed in 42.

 

What may be of note is that you are using the current Warpaint plans by Caruana and I believe Melchie has the plans from Aviation News by Ian Huntley, the latter I recently got from a guy on eBay so maybe a discrepancy there too?

 

Mike

 

 

[corsaircorp]

13 hours ago, LorenSharp said:

Could be how the French like to measure things, or use a rule to measure things ?

Well, how can I say it...

Rule has been used but the guy who created the masters has big problem of sight at the time...

I don't know if he's still alive... and is so, he's surely blind. For once, I'm talking seriously...

I've had the masters of the Stirling at hand years ago, and it was worst than the Hampden...

Then, the guy was working at Air France and created his masters while he was at work... (Shhh do not tell it to the HR manager)

This may explain that.

 

Good luck Woody.

I don't know if Pierre @BS103 still have his own plans..

But if I remember well there was also a twist in references plans...

I don't know wich one is the right one...

Let me know if you need it, I can ask Pierre.

Sincerely.

CC

[general melchett]

Quote

He's much further ahead than me so hoping I can steal some ideas with pride! Welcome about Andy 

You pinch as much as you want, old friend....perhaps between us, we might end up with a reasonably accurate and useable suitcase...glad to clamber aboard.......in finest Leslie Phillips voice...Ding Dong.