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Mediterranean Marylands - Help with camouflage


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For the MTO Group build I have committed to building a 203 Sqn Maryland.


Through outrageous good fortune the one good reference I have found showing 203 Sqn aircraft actually features an aircraft my wife’s grandfather flew in (AH364 ‘P’) so that gives me an aircraft with a family link confirmed by the Sqn ORB with an actual picture/film of the actual aircraft from multiple angles!
 

The problem is confirming the colour scheme. Being mainly a reconaissance squadron operating over the ocean the desert scheme just doesn’t seem right. After reading the discussion on Beaufighters I’m second guessing the colours now. 
 

Can anyone help/advise?

 

Link to reference (courtesy of the Australian War Memorial):

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/F04789/

 

Chosen aircraft features in Part 2

18:45 to 20:05

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rafwaffe
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Interesting film, also showing the squadron's Blenheim, Hudson and Baltimores - indeed so many Baltimores I was beginning to wonder if I'd ever see a Maryland?  And was that a Beaufort seen in an air-to-air shot?  The problem with maritime camouflage (Temperate Sea Scheme) is that it can appear differently in different b&w photographs and therefore it can be difficult to to rule it out.  However I think that I'd be confident in saying the majority of these views were showing aircraft in Desert Scheme, with the final aircraft view just possibly even in Temperate  Land!  However I wouldn't bet on the latter option.

 

Backing this, I don't think I've ever seen a confirmed photo of a Maryland in TSS, and the only views of maritime Baltimores were in the later dark grey over white.  But how many may have been misidentified?  The general shortage of good photos - any photos - from the MR units is a major disappointment.

 

Just to upset you further, at least one 55 Sq Blenheim was in the two shades of Mediterranean Blue  - as reportedly were some Beauforts.   Something in the back of my mind is muttering about 457 Sq's Baltimores also, and 457 was formed from 203.  But I think this last is largely speculation.

 

My money would be on Desert Scheme, unless you could find a squadron member's diary which said different.

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Interesting film , great can of worms material 😉 , comparing the Baltimore's to known colour photos the shades and pattern match a TLS scheme , the Maryland looks to have the same pattern ?? the colour contrast doesn't look as distinct as with Desert or TLS schemes, I'm leaning toward TSS over Azure Blue, code letter in yellow,  the serial has been been masked over for a repaint and the upper and lower colour's have a clear demarcation , Marylands were old aircraft so would have generally be in pretty bad shape if not repainted.

 

I'd like to hear Tony O'Tools and Steve Mackenzie opinion as well both have alot of info and opinions about mid east machines.

 

There are a few good films of Maryland's on the web to compare schemes.

   

Edited by Sydhuey
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Graham, I think you mean 459 Sqn , 457 was a fighter Sqn.  459 Sqn operated Baltimore's in the std TSS scheme with yellow codes.

Edited by Sydhuey
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Sorry, I'm a lousy typist, and clearly not up to the job of proof reader either.

 

If 459 were in TSS then this would strongly imply that 203 were too.  I would however disagree that TLS would always have distinct colour tones, although perhaps it would after some months in the desert.

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Nothing like a good can of worms!

Thank  you for the advice and assistance so far gentlemen.

At least I have a bit of time to continue research and discuss the camouflage further here and elsewhere, and I appreciate any thoughts or guidance on the matter from you all.  

TLS doesn't seem right to the eye and Desert scheme just seems wrong for the naval support role of 203 Sqn.

I am continuing to lean towards TSS. however I accept that I probably need more than B&W Screenshots, a hunch and some confirmation bias before committing paint to plastic. 

 

For consideration of readers pictures of 459 Sqn Aircraft seem to suggest they were  in TSS (or TLS?) in 1942 (Hudsons):
http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/459-Hudson

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/459-Hudson/P027092

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/459-Hudson/P016921

 

Alex

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Rafwaffe said:

Nothing like a good can of worms!

Thank  you for the advice and assistance so far gentlemen.

At least I have a bit of time to continue research and discuss the camouflage further here and elsewhere, and I appreciate any thoughts or guidance on the matter from you all.  

TLS doesn't seem right to the eye and Desert scheme just seems wrong for the naval support role of 203 Sqn.

I am continuing to lean towards TSS. however I accept that I probably need more than B&W Screenshots, a hunch and some confirmation bias before committing paint to plastic. 

 

For consideration of readers pictures of 459 Sqn Aircraft seem to suggest they were  in TSS (or TLS?) in 1942 (Hudsons):
http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/459-Hudson

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/459-Hudson/P027092

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/459-Hudson/P016921

 

Alex

 

 

 

 

These links:

 

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/459-Hudson

 

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/459-Hudson/P027092

 

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/459-Hudson/P016921

 

 

 

 

Chris

 

 

 

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Thank you Chris for adding the links to The Hudson pictures.

 

I’ve been comparing pictures and have to say I’m still not sure what the colours should be/are!

Subject aircraft (stills from film from AWM website):

Maryland AH364 ‘P’ 203 Sqn 1942 Maryland AH364 ‘P’ 203 Sqn 1942 Maryland AH364 ‘P’ 203 Sqn 1942 Maryland AH364 ‘P’ 203 Sqn 1942


For comparison purposes;

Desert camouflage and TLS Marylands (from  the IWM Page and world war photos page) although not sure about colour scheme the aircraft in the first picture (BS764 of 39 Sqn)

Martin Marylands Martin Marylands SAAF Marylands Maryland AH336

 

Edited by Rafwaffe
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Not entirely sure how relevant this is -- forgive me, if it's "Not at all..." -- but the passing mention of Baltimores and the TSS scheme caught my attention. When I was doing my Frog Baltimore some years ago, I chased a written account of how the aircraft had been repainted in TSS after leaving the desert and relocating to Malta to operate with 69 Squadron there. I turned up a splendid 'color' photograph online...said to be of one of the squadron's a/c...fully aware that as a self-declared 'non-expert,' I can never quite be sure what's merely colorized and what isn't -- but I thought I'd throw it into the mix, for whatever it's worth:

 

spacer.png

 

In any case, it's a great find, finding a relative's aircraft in an old photo. I wish you great success with your project!

 

Cheers

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