1/48 Seafire III - Best Option?

[wellsprop]

Hi All,

 

I'm becoming and even greater fan of the Seafire III and XVII recently, the Westland built versions of course! I'm just wondering what options there are available (conversions in particular)?

 

The Airfix kit is no good at all and the Special Hobby Kit is too short and the wings too far back.

 

My kit used an Airfix Spitfire Vb, the wings from a Seafire XVII, the prop, exhausts, hook, PE and vinyl from the Special Hobby kit - this gave a Seafire III with the correct fuselage and wings with good detail level, I also had to reshape the Airfix XVII wings which are too broad in chord.

 

 

My next idea is to convert the Eduard Spitfire IX by rescribing the panel lines in the wings and removing the engine cowls, replacing them with a resin engine set on display. The navalised parts I can get from an airwaves PE set and I can 3D print the hook and the small under wing radiator will come from the spares box.

 

However, this is still no good for building a kit without the engine on display....

 

So far, the conversion I did seems the best option

• Airfix Spitfire Vb - fuselage, canopy, radiator (horizontal tail need modifying)
• Airfix Seafire XVII - wings only
• Special Hobby Seafire III - decals, prop, hook, longer carb intake, PE, vinyl (Alternatively the SH kit could be replaced with a Quickboost prop & exhaust and an airwaves PE set - the hook and longer carb intake would need to be 3D printed)

 

It's a shame there is no 1/48 unfolded resin wing set for the Seafire, that would be a decent conversion!

 

I really wish Airfix would release a new Seafire III based on their fantastic Mk V, I can keep dreaming.

 

Ben

 

[Troy Smith]

44 minutes ago, wellsprop said:

the Special Hobby Kit is too short and the wings too far back.

 

My kit used an Airfix Spitfire Vb, the wings from a Seafire XVII, the prop, exhausts, hook, PE and vinyl from the Special Hobby kit - this gave a Seafire III with the correct fuselage and wings with good detail level, I also had to reshape the Airfix XVII wings which are too broad in chord.

 

Fixing the SH kits length is easier than the cross kitting and then  fixing the Airfix Seafire XVII wing.   If you want a folded wing worth considering.

SH fuselage Two splices, and it solves the wing position problem as well.   Been saying this for years,

and have posted photos showing the fix, but still seems to be too much work.  This is aligned over a cutting mat, and the vertical strips show certain positions

 

Bear in mind the SH kit has all the bits you need,   as well as some basic etch.

 

To be honest, I think the hammering the SH kit is preposterous considering the kits that really do have more serious faults don't ....  Airfix XII, Seafire XVII, old tool Tamiya Mk.I/V for example.

 

Most folks would never notice,  if it bugs you, add two splices. 

 

HT

H

 

[wellsprop]

@Troy Smith, I never thought about doing that! The only other thing that annoyed me with the SH kit is the canopy isn't very crisp - but I've got enough spare canopies to sort that out!

[noelh]

3 minutes ago, wellsprop said:

@Troy Smith, I never thought about doing that! The only other thing that annoyed me with the SH kit is the canopy isn't very crisp - but I've got enough spare canopies to sort that out!

I wonder if the Eduard MkIX would fit? Useful  information from Troy. I have SH Seafire and an considering a start on it. 

[Stephen]

How about converting the Airfix Vb to a Vc via Alleycat https://www.alleycatmodels.co.uk/alleycat-aircraft-sets-148-scale-232-c.asp and then converting to a Seafire III ?

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, Stephen said:

How about converting the Airfix Vb to a Vc via Alleycat https://www.alleycatmodels.co.uk/alleycat-aircraft-sets-148-scale-232-c.asp and then converting to a Seafire III ?

You could, but only if you like making work for yourself.   

 

Converting the B to C wing is not very difficult, and if you are happy to chop up a Vb and add a resin wing.,  then you should have no problem with adding splices. Tip, get some Evergreen strip of the right size.

 

Anyway, what you get then is a Vc, with the wrong UC leg rake.

The for a Seafire III You then need to find (from memory, I'm tired and not about to look it all up)

A 4 blade prop

add arrestor hook and reinforcements

find plans and make the strengthening strips, 

scribe in wing fold line, and the change of the UC well

Find decals.

 

Or.... get a SH Seafire III, add splices (or not, honestly, unless you look really carefully side on, you won't notice, see the pic above) and this has all the above parts in the box.

 

Or, just wait.  I'd not be surprised in Eduard get around to the joy of Seafire's at some point in the next few years.

 

If you really want the length, and really can't do the splices, use another fuselage on the SH wing.   

Pragmatic way, get the SH Seafire III, try the mods, if that goes wrong, get new fuselage.

 

Sorry if this anyway abrupt,  bit tired, but you asked. 

 

HTH

[Graham Boak]

Just to add 6-a-side exhausts, bulged wheel doors, longer cannon.

[Grey Beema]

15 hours ago, noelh said:

I wonder if the Eduard MkIX would fit? Useful  information from Troy. I have SH Seafire and an considering a start on it. 

The SH canopy is slightly to narrow to fit over the spine if the fuselage, rather than try and stretch the canopy l had a couple of spare 1/48 Aitfix MkI  ‘Closed’ canopies.  They fit better over the SH kit spine and Down to the runners.

 

 

 

[wellsprop]

11 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

You could, but only if you like making work for yourself.   

 

Converting the B to C wing is not very difficult, and if you are happy to chop up a Vb and add a resin wing.,  then you should have no problem with adding splices. Tip, get some Evergreen strip of the right size.

 

Anyway, what you get then is a Vc, with the wrong UC leg rake.

The for a Seafire III You then need to find (from memory, I'm tired and not about to look it all up)

A 4 blade prop

add arrestor hook and reinforcements

find plans and make the strengthening strips, 

scribe in wing fold line, and the change of the UC well

Find decals.

 

Or.... get a SH Seafire III, add splices (or not, honestly, unless you look really carefully side on, you won't notice, see the pic above) and this has all the above parts in the box.

 

Or, just wait.  I'd not be surprised in Eduard get around to the joy of Seafire's at some point in the next few years.

 

If you really want the length, and really can't do the splices, use another fuselage on the SH wing.   

Pragmatic way, get the SH Seafire III, try the mods, if that goes wrong, get new fuselage.

 

Sorry if this anyway abrupt,  bit tired, but you asked. 

 

HTH

I'm beginning to come round to the idea of correcting the SH kit. It's actually a decent kit and good value given the PE. The elevator horns need correcting too.

 

Fingers crossed Eduard do one....

[Giorgio N]

Eduard may well do a Seafire in the future as they have started a line of single-stage Merlin engined Spitfires. The problem is when this is going to happen, may be in a year or may be in 5...

In the meantime correcting the SH kit sounds like a decent option. If crosskitting is the preferred option, then maybe using the SH Seafire specific parts on the Eduard Mk.IX could be an option ? The Eduard kit is pretty cheap in a weekend edition box or as overtrees (when available) and the fuselage is pretty accurate.

Of course such a plan would involve using the front engine cowling of the SH kit and all depends on how well the sections of the two kits correspond at the firewall...

[wellsprop]

@Troy Smith so the Seafire III should have the same rake as a Spitfire IX? I glossed over that with my Seafire build...

 

Because the Seafire III essentially has a folding C wing?

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, wellsprop said:

@Troy Smith so the Seafire III should have the same rake as a Spitfire IX? I glossed over that with my Seafire build...

the Universal or C wing introduced  on the Vc the forward rake,  and it is on everything based on that wing,  VIII and IX, up to the 20 series.

 

1 hour ago, wellsprop said:

Because the Seafire III essentially has a folding C wing?

yes.

 

cheers

T

[Bruce Archer]

On 9/6/2020 at 9:53 AM, wellsprop said:

Hi All,

 

I'm becoming and even greater fan of the Seafire III and XVII recently, the Westland built versions of course! I'm just wondering what options there are available (conversions in particular)?

 

The Airfix kit is no good at all and the Special Hobby Kit is too short and the wings too far back.

 

My kit used an Airfix Spitfire Vb, the wings from a Seafire XVII, the prop, exhausts, hook, PE and vinyl from the Special Hobby kit - this gave a Seafire III with the correct fuselage and wings with good detail level, I also had to reshape the Airfix XVII wings which are too broad in chord.

 

 

My next idea is to convert the Eduard Spitfire IX by rescribing the panel lines in the wings and removing the engine cowls, replacing them with a resin engine set on display. The navalised parts I can get from an airwaves PE set and I can 3D print the hook and the small under wing radiator will come from the spares box.

 

However, this is still no good for building a kit without the engine on display....

 

So far, the conversion I did seems the best option

• Airfix Spitfire Vb - fuselage, canopy, radiator (horizontal tail need modifying)
• Airfix Seafire XVII - wings only
• Special Hobby Seafire III - decals, prop, hook, longer carb intake, PE, vinyl (Alternatively the SH kit could be replaced with a Quickboost prop & exhaust and an airwaves PE set - the hook and longer carb intake would need to be 3D printed)

 

It's a shame there is no 1/48 unfolded resin wing set for the Seafire, that would be a decent conversion!

 

I really wish Airfix would release a new Seafire III based on their fantastic Mk V, I can keep dreaming.

 

Ben

 

Hi!

   I have made several Seafire IIIs using a Hasegawa fuselage, ICM wings, Airfix tail hooks and thin plastic sheet for the reinforcements. The wing fit remarkably well.

 

Bruce

[Troy Smith]

47 minutes ago, Bruce Archer said:

I have made several Seafire IIIs using a Hasegawa fuselage, ICM wings, Airfix tail hooks and thin plastic sheet for the reinforcements.

 

hmm...in the words of Napalm Death "You Suffer, But Why"... (that's for @Beard )

 

OK, Bruce, you, have in the past banged on about the SH kits being short, and how this makes it look rear ended.  The Hase Vb is also short, as far as I can tell, SH were 'inspired ' by the Hase Vb

 

So, I pulled out a Hase VB, (top) and and a SH Vc (lower) and did my best to line them up,  couldn't find any graph paper and cutting mat buried under stuff.

 

50620151 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

the only real difference is the wing position.   

So the Hase fuselage is short, in the SAME places as the SH fuselage, just the wing is further forward. Compared to a Airfix Vb, the Hase Vb nose and wing leading edge line up, but the trailing edge and cockpit are too far forward, as is the rudder post. 

 

The cockpit/wing trailing edge are in the correct alignment on the Hase, but it's short in in the same places as the SH.

 

So, I suspect less visually jarring than the SH, but still short. 

 

again, fixing the SH is less work (pushing the wing forward make it the same as the Hase) but adding the length is really not hard  and in the UK at least, cheaper and certainly easier  than the cross kitting exercise., given that the ICM kit also has a poor prop and other specific details (cannon bulges, wheels,  making good radiator are the one I can think of off hand. )

HTH

T

[Beard]

7 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

hmm...in the words of Napalm Death "You Suffer, But Why"...

I like Short songs,  @Troy Smith

Edited September 9, 2020 by Beard

[dragonlanceHR]

Nice to see death metal metalheads here

[85sqn]

For what it's worth I did the Airfix MkVb with the MkXVII wing and some bits from their old Seafire MkIII /Spit VC kit:

 

 

 

[85sqn]

Hey folks,

 

I actually got around to finishing the Special Hobby 1/48 Seafire III using Troy’s splices as shown up above. I’ll get some photos up in the RFI soon. I think I actually prefer the Airfix kit bash I did in the post above. The SH hobby kit is pretty long in the tooth now and it’s nowhere near as nice as the modern Spitfire kits. I have a couple of Eduard Vcs so another Seafire MkIII will be along soon using some of the parts from a SH Seafire kit I have kicking around.

 

cheers

 

Nick

[bigbadbadge]

I am currently working on a SH Seafire III,  which I have not modified, apart from the lifting sling spigots added .  I was thinking about using the Eduard Vc to convert to a future Seafire, I have had a look online and there is not much in the way of conversion parts available such as the Arrestor Hook and Fuselage section,  I wonder if anyone has thought of producing such items, would they be worth 3D printing ?  Would there be a decent market?  Cross kitting is expensive  now with the prices of kits.

Chris

 

[Graham Boak]

Where are the lifting sling spigots?  My understanding was that there were no external spigots but internal mountings.  I thought that at the rear the hole for a trestling rod was used for slinging.  

[bigbadbadge]

7 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Where are the lifting sling spigots?  My understanding was that there were no external spigots but internal mountings.  I thought that at the rear the hole for a trestling rod was used for slinging.  

Apologies if the name for them is incorrect.  Are they not on the panel on either side immediately behind the engine cowl panels and below the fuel tank cover panel ?

Chris

[Bruce Archer]

Hi All!

     Yes, I have used the Hasegawa Spitfire Vb fuselage for Seafires, only because though short, they were the best items to use at the time, and they LOOK better than the Special Hobby kits.

     I have recently been gifted an Eduard Spitfire Vc which is missing many, many parts I will be using it to make a Seafire IIc or III. First, though, I have an Airfix Seafire 17 wing, and I will see how well it fits an Airfix Spitfire Vb fuselage. I have tailhooks and vinyl reinforcing plates. Both show promise on being better Seafires. I will let y'all know.

Bruce

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Chris:  The position seems sensible, but a spigot (to me) would be something sticking out, and I don't recall seeing such.  (Aerodynamically it would be a very unsuitable place.)  Is it a location hole into which a spigot could be inserted?

[Grey Beema]

Zoom in to see what might be the slinging point (for want of a better name) at the rear of the cowling..

 

SEAFIRES ON BOARD THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER HMS FURIOUS AT SEA. AUGUST 1944.. © IWM (A 25075) IWM Non Commercial License
 

 

[bigbadbadge]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Chris:  The position seems sensible, but a spigot (to me) would be something sticking out, and I don't recall seeing such.  (Aerodynamically it would be a very unsuitable place.)  Is it a location hole into which a spigot could be inserted?

That would make sense, if so will have to cut mine off and drill out.  They were also included in the MDC conversion too so am confused about whether they should be present or not ?

 

Just seen @Grey Beema 's post, so will keep mine in place. Thanks GB

Chris