Hawker Tempest V Markings - BAFO 1946

[Ghostbase]

I have just purchased the Revell 1/32nd Hawker Tempest V kit (formerly Special Hobby) and I would like to build it in the markings of a 16 Squadron Tempest V based at Fassberg in late 1946 just before they were replaced by the Tempest II. The kit decals represent two Tempests from 1944 so I am going to have to source some decals to build the Tempest that I want. These would be for the serials on the fuselage and under-wing, the white squadron codes, and the upper wing roundels. I just want to check that I am looking for the right decals because I am not at all knowledgeable regards RAF markings around this time frame.

 

Starting with serials for the fuselage I understand that I need RAF serial black letters 8" so Xtradecal X32021 should be perfect. For the black serials under the wing I am not sure what size I am looking for or indeed who makes them. 😟  

 

The white squadron code letters, probably EG-V, are supplied by Xtradecal but I have to choose between 24" and 30" letters. I don't know which ones apply, I think the larger ones but that is just a guess.

 

The upper wing roundels supplied in the kit are blue and red Type B however I understand that the post war Tempests wore 56" Type C roundels. Again, are these available anywhere?

 

I have searched for all the above using the Hannants web site. Any pointers or advice would be appreciated 👍

 

Michael

 

 

 

[Black Knight]

Have you checked Fantasy Printshop?

https://www.fantasyprintshop.co.uk/decals/aircraft-decals/1-32-scale/

The Hunter serial letters and numbers would be the correct size afair

[Seahawk]

Good call on Fantasy Printshop.  However, although the Hunter serials might be the right size, they are almost certainly the wrong style.  If the aircraft is still in Type C roundels, OP will probably need the angular wartime/pre 1946 style.  I don't see anything in Fantasy's dedicated 1/32 range but there might be something useful in the 1/48 range eg FP885 (21") will give you serials 14" high in 1/32 and FP888 (30") 20" serials.  Afraid I don't know what size the underwing serials of post-war Tempests were: it could well be that both those sizes are too small.

 

https://www.fantasyprintshop.co.uk/shop/product-61/

 

Similarly the serials on Xtradecal sheet 32031 are again the post-war rounded style.  You will be better off with these, also available from Hannants:

 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/VA3270?result-token=5mnqH

 

HTH

Edited September 6, 2020 by Seahawk

[Black Knight]

afair the size of under-wing lettering was to be 16 or 18 inch on single seat aeroplanes, The size difference was allowed for the room available to put them at their correct spacing.

[stever219]

Tempest underwent serials were definitely more than 18" high, probably around 30" to 36" and in the "square" style so (most, if not all) Hunter sets won't do the job.  If Tempests used 56" diameter "Type C" or "Type C1" rounders above the wings they could be robbed from a suitable Spitfire sheet.

[Seahawk]

34 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

afair the size of under-wing lettering was to be 16 or 18 inch on single seat aeroplanes, The size difference was allowed for the room available to put them at their correct spacing.

FP886 (1/48 24") will give 16"  in the right style.  But 1/48 27" (=18" 1/32) only seems available in Red.

[Ghostbase]

Just wanted to say thank you to Black Knight, Seahawk and stever219 for the help and suggestions. I had forgotten about the Fantasy Printshop and that looks to be an excellent alternative source of decals for the future. I thought that the suggestion to look at Spitfire decals for the same time frame was really helpful as well.

 

I have since found the book 'The Hawker Tempest' by Richard A. Franks which is aimed at scale modellers and it seems that there are some grey areas regards the markings for post-war BAFO based Tempest V because it seems that some squadrons had differing interpretations of Air Ministry stipulations, making this a somewhat complex subject. Going back to my list...

 

Fuselage serials are definitely 8" black letters 8" so Xtradecal X32021.

 

Under wing serials are 24" black (or 'night') .  

 

The white squadron code letters, definitely EG-V, are 24" sky so Extradecal are good.

 

The upper wing roundels needed are Type C 50".

 

Also interesting that for the later Tempest V series II the sky spinner was changed to black (and possibly flight colours such as red or blue) and the sky band on the rear fuselage was painted over in camouflage colours.

 

Now I have a better idea of the markings needed and where to find them so, again, thank you.

 

Michael

[Seahawk]

5 minutes ago, Ghostbase said:

JFuselage serials are definitely 8" black letters 8" so Xtradecal X32021.

You are of course correct: I hadn't noticed that that sheet also has the earlier angular style characters as well as the post-46 rounded style.

[Col Walter E Kurtz]

have just bought this kit and am grateful for the excellent info regarding decals..

[gingerbob]

On 9/13/2020 at 8:57 AM, Ghostbase said:

Also interesting that for the later Tempest V series II the sky spinner was changed to black (and possibly flight colours such as red or blue) and the sky band on the rear fuselage was painted over in camouflage colours.

 

That's (removal of Sky bits) standard 2TAF from (approximately) the start of 1945.  At about the same time, the upper wing roundel gained the white ring, and (I think) the outer yellow one, though that might be a slightly later addition- can't remember.

[Graham Boak]

I said just that on the recent Spitfire thread, and had to go back to clarify - January 1st and the outer ring from the beginning in 2TAF, but not in the UK which retained the Sky trim.   Addition of squadron/flight colours was postwar.  During the later 40s paint and manpower was in short supply so some variations existed even within squadrons, although Tempest Vs were probably less affected by this than some.

[rossm]

If I could get to my copy of this https://www.guidelinepublications.co.uk/index.php?GOTO=137&PICFILE=137&STKNR=137&STRH=&ORDN=&RNZ=962904&THISVIEWMODE=2&SUPPLIER=&FINDRETR=&WIDENET=&CATEGORY=4&SUB=1&VWW=1 I could tell you if it helped but it's in store pending a house move. Hopefully someone else will have it.

 

The Typhoon and Tempest Story by @Chris Thomas and Christopher Shores is another possible source of information on this period.

[Ghostbase]

On 11/21/2020 at 9:04 AM, Graham Boak said:

I said just that on the recent Spitfire thread, and had to go back to clarify - January 1st and the outer ring from the beginning in 2TAF, but not in the UK which retained the Sky trim.   Addition of squadron/flight colours was postwar.  During the later 40s paint and manpower was in short supply so some variations existed even within squadrons, although Tempest Vs were probably less affected by this than some.

 

My father flew with 16 Squadron out of Fassburg 1946/47 and I want to finish the model in 'his' Tempest V which I recall was 'EG-V'. He did keep a diary and I recall several entries where he grouses that he was not allocated a flight because of a shortage of serviceable aircraft, I think he did refer to manpower shortages. He did refer to painting his Tempest's spinner blue. Michael

[rossm]

You can get the Squadron ORB for this period here https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2505037

 

If you create an account (free) you can download it for free. It's only a summary as there were no actual operations and, sadly, no aircraft details but it does paint a picture of life on the Squadron at the time.

[Ghostbase]

31 minutes ago, rossm said:

You can get the Squadron ORB for this period here https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2505037

 

If you create an account (free) you can download it for free. It's only a summary as there were no actual operations and, sadly, no aircraft details but it does paint a picture of life on the Squadron at the time.

 

Thanks, that looks very interesting indeed and I will give it a go. Michael

[Chris Thomas]

On 11/21/2020 at 9:04 AM, Graham Boak said:

I said just that on the recent Spitfire thread, and had to go back to clarify - January 1st and the outer ring from the beginning in 2TAF, but not in the UK which retained the Sky trim.   Addition of squadron/flight colours was postwar.  During the later 40s paint and manpower was in short supply so some variations existed even within squadrons, although Tempest Vs were probably less affected by this than some.

Just to expand on the matter of roundels on postwar BAFO Tempests.  Initially of course their Tempests were ex-2ndTAF machines so they had 'Type C1' roundels in all positions ie with yellow outer rings and inner white rings.  In the last quarter of 1945 new Tempests replaced some of the war-weary specimens and these were delivered in Fighter Command style markings, ie. no yellow rings on upper or lower wing roundels and still wearing the rear fuselage Sky band.  These markings were retained in BAFO service.  Serials were in the SN300 range.

 

Underwing serial sizes, which on the Mk.Vs were service applied rather than factory (no doubt leading to some variation) were sized according to a formula based on 50% of the wing chord.  As the roundels were already in position the serials were well inboard, where the chord on the Tempest was at its deepest.  I have recently assessed the size of the underwing serials on Tempest IIs (which were factory-applied) and they are in the region of 48 inches high.  They overran the wing and almost met under the centre of the fuselage.  I have not carried out this exercise on Tempest Vs but I think they would be similar.  By the time the Tempest VIs left the factory, the underwing roundels were move out to the wingtips with the serials immediately inboard and their height was reduced to 32 inches.

CT