TheyJammedKenny! Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 59 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said: There's only one runway on Jersey, and it's civil and a cross country flight isn't going to take long! This was the state of New Jersey in the U.S., just to clarify. In the U.S., we use "Jersey" and "New Jersey" interchangeably, so sorry for any confusion. It is densely populated and contains numerous airfields. In his retelling, "Chuck" did not specify the name of the military airfield at which he landed, but it could have been any of several, including an ANG facility. But we return to our previously scheduled thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, TheyJammedKenny! said: This was the state of New Jersey in the U. S. Well, if you meant Joisey, why dincha say? Jersey to a Brit is all 🐄🐄🐄🐄🐄 and 🥔🥔🥔🥔🥔 near 🇫🇷 🙂 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Funny, now that you mention it. "New Jersey" and "Jersey" are indeed used somewhat interchangeably (though only in casual usage- I doubt the Governor would say that they headed the state of Jersey). But I would never say that I'm from the region of "England", nor have I ever heard mention of the states "Hampshire" or "York". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
At Sea Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 CADET: Compass to True add East Take (West) True Virgins Make Dull Companions: True +/- Variation = Magnetic +/- Deviation = Compass VD Makes little wille droop: Variation +/- Deviation = Magnetic Error East Compass least, Error West Compass best. Don't get me started on mnemonics for RADAR set up! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/6/2020 at 4:18 AM, Scimitar F1 said: That is to get rid of magnetic deviation. You do it with boats as well. That runway headings are changed over time where necessary answers my question. As has been stated here, they are not changing at a rapid rate. I understand what a compass swing is, I’ve swung a lot of compasses in my 25 plus years in the RCAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenS Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 On 03/09/2020 at 22:00, Graham Boak said: For the WW2 period, would normally be three runways on an RAF station, and four on an FAA station. Each runway would have two numbers, indicating the compass direction. Which runway was in use would depend upon the direction of the wind, as operations were into wind whenever possible. So the sign 23 means land on runway 23, which is built on a line 230 degrees/50 degrees. For interest, Heathrow was built with six runways, in three parallel pairs. On a heavy bomber station normally one runway would be considerably longer than the others, and this would be used for normal operations except in strong crosswinds. The longest runway on any airfield would be built in the direction of the prevailing winds. Small aircraft like fighters would be more affected by cross-winds so would use the cross runways more often. Aircraft on grass airfields would land/take off directly into wind, as indicated by the windsock and probably an indicator on the ground adjacent to the control tower. Re FAA stations, only those airfields built specifically by / for the RN as Royal Naval Air Stations were built with four runways. For example Crail, Burscough, Macrihanish , Inskip and Henstridge. Their runways also tended to be shorter as the FAA aircraft were generally smaller and needed less take off/ landing distance. The extra runway was because the aircraft also tended to have narrower track undercarriages and were more susceptible to crosswinds, so more runways gave a greater chance of finding one into wind on any given day. Most of the airfields used by the RN in WW2 were built for the RAF and were then handed over to the RN or where the RN had lodger facilities on RAF stations for its squadrons. These followed the standard RAF 3 runway layout. For example Dale, Eglinton, Limavady and Stretton. A lot of details of FAA airfields are here. http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/FAA-Bases/Index.htm#.X1dhusrTWhD There were also variations in the type and design of the buildings which would appear on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 On 9/7/2020 at 2:58 PM, Dave Swindell said: There's only one runway on Jersey, and it's civil and a cross country flight isn't going to take long! I think that might be New Jersey, given the clues to the poster's background ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 On 9/4/2020 at 9:36 PM, Scimitar F1 said: You would be surprised - the variation is on the edge of every OS map and Nautical chart Mag to Grid - get rid! (as I was taught at Sandhurst) Or grid to mag add ....fairly important and don't forget your pacing😄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 You lot clinging to these outmoded mnenomics are going to be soooo confused in a couple of years when you have to apply it the other way 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 22 hours ago, John B (Sc) said: I think that might be New Jersey, given the clues to the poster's background ! Ah, John, you've fallen for the one that usually gets ME: replying to the "last" post, without noticeing that there's another page to the thread 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 1 hour ago, gingerbob said: Ah, John, you've fallen for the one that usually gets ME: replying to the "last" post, without noticeing that there's another page to the thread 😉 Oops ! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 On 9/9/2020 at 2:01 PM, Work In Progress said: You lot clinging to these outmoded mnenomics are going to be soooo confused in a couple of years when you have to apply it the other way If you want outmoded try this one: Tommy Trinder Makes Fairly Pretty Funny Faces Oh Ha Ha Instant Laughter. Throttle, trim, mixture, fuel, pitch, and all the other forgotten stuff you need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 That sounds positively ancient. I always used TTMPFFGHH as a starting point for powered types, along with a left-right flow check. But never had a set of words for it. The ones most etched into my central nervous system though, reflecting where I started, were CBSIFTCB for launch vital actions on gliders and UFSTALL for downwind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 " i always used TTMPFFGHH as a starting point for powered types, " (Work in Prigress) Yes that's similar to the one I've used for many years, TTMMCFFGHH. There is a set of words for that, notably rude (so I shan't repeat here) but unforgettable, taught to me by the CFI of our Gliding Club when he converted me to our tugs. As for all the Compass- Mag - Grid discussion, there are some folk who forget that the magnetic values change and need updating - on a daily basis for some survey purposes. On at least one occasion I know of, this nearly caused a major international incident when forgetting to adjust for changes in magnetic heading had acseud enough error in position finding that one country was extracting the resources of a neighbour - and an already unfriendly on at that. Major clang. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 (edited) Yeah all those people who think being a pilot is easy. All those mnemonics you have to learn. It's a tough gig.🤣 In the end while skydive flying with it's intense schedule. I trained the guys to keep it simple. Mags on both, flaps set and checked twice. Temps and pressures good. Controls full and free. Go. We got so efficient that touchdown to take off was four minutes. A bit like F1, we were within seconds of each turnaround. All done safely. I wouldn't have it any other way. Edited September 12, 2020 by noelh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 16 hours ago, noelh said: . We got so efficient that touchdown to take off was four minutes. Likewise with glider towing, generally under 4 minutes because we don't have to load people aboard. NOte the tail number as you swing back into line, then a fast TTMMCFFGGHH check was all we needed while awaiting rope hook up and away.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 6 hours ago, John B (Sc) said: Likewise with glider towing, generally under 4 minutes because we don't have to load people aboard. NOte the tail number as you swing back into line, then a fast TTMMCFFGGHH check was all we needed while awaiting rope hook up and away.. Muscle memory check list. Drummed it into the new pilots. Bit of a shock to some of them consumed with the romance of flying and their mini airline pilot training. Time is money. Me and my colleague were so consistent we we wore a hole in the grass runway. Got complaints from the airfield operator. Great times, proper stick and rudder flying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Great fun indeed ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikke11 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Does it make sense that the numbers vary substantially ? I've seen pictures with 29 and with 07 ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 What do you mean 'trikke11'? Apologies for possibly 'teaching the converted' - Runway 29 means the runway heading is 290 degrees. Runway 07 means runway heading is 070 degrees. Depending on the wind direction would depend which runway was active. That would make the runways mentioned 11/29 and 07/25. That is possible - two runways set only 40 degrees different in direction, though fairly uncommon. Does that make sense? Joh n B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orso Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Back to the control tower. How did those boards work. They are rather big but must have been easy to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_K Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 And were they actually boards? A canvas "flag" sounds much easier to handle. Cheers, Antti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 On 09/09/2020 at 12:22, junglierating said: Or grid to mag add ....fairly important and don't forget your pacing😄 Not sure how long ago you learnt this but the magnetic declination is now the other way around (at least in the SW UK) 😉😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix44 Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 On 20/03/2022 at 22:58, trikke11 said: Does it make sense that the numbers vary substantially ? I've seen pictures with 29 and with 07 ?! They always add up to 36 (360 in reality). It's the "other side" of the bearing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B (Sc) Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Phoenix44 said: They always add up to 36 (360 in reality). It's the "other side" of the bearing. Umm, no they don't, unless my arithmetic has gone pear shaped ! The two runway heading references are 180 degrees apart, so either add or subtract 180 to get the other value - or add/subtract '18' if using the values on the runway board or stencilled onto the runways. Runway 36 has its reciprocal runway heading as 18, for instance. Runway 04 would have runway 22 reciprocal. Only runway 27, with 09 as its reciprocal, adds to 36. (Having spent far too many minutes on the way in puzzling over the correct turn to head onto downwind or crosswind for 'runway x' ahead at a strange airfield, I have screwed this up plenty times. Actually I reckon the easiest solution is the military 'run and break' down the active runway line !) John B Edited March 26, 2022 by John B (Sc) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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