P-40E/K colour scheme options

[robstopper]

Hi all,

 

As a potential future project, I fancy doing a 1/48 scale P-40. The best kit option I can find at the moment is the Italeri P-40E/K.

 

My dilemma at the moment is which colour scheme to choose for it. I like the dark earth/mid stone/azue blue scheme with the shark mouth, which the Italeri kit provides options for, but it's only with RAF decals. As the P-40 would sit on the shelf in the "USN/USAAF" section alongside a Corsair and a P-51D, I'd really prefer it to have USAAF markings.

 

It looks like most E models in the desert scheme were RAF aircraft, and most desert scheme USAAF aircraft were F models, fitted with the Merlin rather than the Allison, so had a different nose profile.

 

I could hybridise something to my own taste, but it wouldn't be historically accurate. I'm no rivet-counting stickler for accuracy, and it's only being done for my own viewing pleasure, but I'd like it to represent something which actually existed.

 

Any ideas?

Edited August 31, 2020 by robstopper

[Giorgio N]

USAAF's 57th FG used a number of P-40K in the desert but most pictures seem to show overall sand uppersurfaces rather than the RAF desert scheme. IMHO the sand scheme is very interesting but of course it's not the scheme you want.

There are pictures of Ks in desert scheme with US insignia but they could well have been taken before delivery to the RAF. An example is 42-46063 shown below:

 

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/p-40-warhawk/p-40k-42-46063-gura-air-depot-egypt-11-december-1942/

 

Another K that wore the desert scheme was 42-46051, of which there is a nice picture taken in flight that shows the scheme. This aircraft also carried no marking when the picture was taken and was lost in Iceland.

 

Then there are aircraft thay may have been in desert scheme but pictures are not too clear

[robstopper]

Thanks Giorgio.

 

The overall "sand" scheme is an option, i could heavily weather it to add some interest and break up the single colour.

 

I think the only solution to get the two tone desert scheme, and the sharks mouth, is to go for the RAF roundels too, and accept the compromise

 

[alt-92]

RNZAF P-40s ?

https://www.airforcemuseum.co.nz/aircraft/curtiss-p-40e-kittyhawk/

or the AWM P-40E 41-36084 (RAAF, serial A29-133) .

 

Alternatively,in RCAF updo https://www.platinumfighters.com/p-40e (For sale, a mere $CDN 1.5 million)

 

Just some oddball options. 

[72modeler]

There are some very well-known P-40E photos, a couple in color, that show iit in USAAF narkings with the 'US Army' under the wings; colors, IIRC, were  MAP equivalents of dark green/dark earth/sky blue-grey. My old Mk 1a  memory banks seem to recall @Dana Bell covered this scheme in a couple of his reference works. I think it was this same scheme that  was used on the box art of the old 1/72 Revell P-40E kit. I have always liked that scheme. Will try to find photos and text, but maybe one of our Kittyhawk 'expertern' or  Dana will see this and ring in. I seem to recall the green was very close to medium green 42, FS34102.

See the linked article for color chips, paint names, and Dana Bell's reference works on the subject. (Don't get any compensation or credit for the plug- just a longtime fan of the man's work!)

Mike

 

Scroll down to see a color photo of the USAAF P-40E I was describing.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/135413.aspx

 

The Revell kit box art

https://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=19908

 

Thought you might find this link of interest; everything I have read by those who have flown the P-40 have commented on how great the aileron response was and what an honest airplane it is to fly. If they had only managed a two-stage Merlin 60...

https://www.pilotweb.aero/features/curtiss-p40-warhawk-1-5411666

 

 

 

[Mark Joyce]

2 hours ago, robstopper said:

Hi all,

 

As a potential future project, I fancy doing a 1/48 scale P-40. The best kit option I can find at the moment is the Italeri P-40E/K.

 

Another option is the 1/48 Hobbycraft P-40F/L kits.  It's basically the same molds as the Italeri kit but, of course, for the Merlin variants.  These kits are easily available on eBay, etc.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Giorgio N]

There's no lack of USAAF aircraft in green/brown with sharkmouths, both E and K. But of course, they are not in desert scheme.

 

Finding an F would of course make it easy to build a USAAF aircraft in desert scheme. The Hobbycraft kit can indeed be found, however they were not sidely distirbuted in Europe and chances are that most would have to come with the US, that generally means quite high postage costs to the UK. In any case, it may be worth searching

 

[Mark Joyce]

2 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

There's no lack of USAAF aircraft in green/brown with sharkmouths, both E and K. But of course, they are not in desert scheme.

 

Finding an F would of course make it easy to build a USAAF aircraft in desert scheme. The Hobbycraft kit can indeed be found, however they were not sidely distirbuted in Europe and chances are that most would have to come with the US, that generally means quite high postage costs to the UK. In any case, it may be worth searching

 

Thanks for the information, Giorgio. Living in the U.S. I was unaware that the Hobbycraft kit was so difficult to obtain in Europe. Even Hannants doesn't stock it, and Hannants has most everything.

 

Which begs the question: when will we get a new-tooled P-40F/L in all scales, but especially 48th?  The most recent tooling is the 32nd Trumpeter kit, which not even mentioning its issues is a short-tail F (and one issue is that Trumpeter included decals for a long-tail F and an L).

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[robstopper]

I did track down some of the Hobbycraft F models, but as Giorgio says, the postage costs are more than the kit!

 

If i get one, it will be the E, which i'll do in the RAF desert/sharkmouth scheme, and worry about what it gets paired with on the shelf later 😆

[72modeler]

In 1/72, MPM did a P-40F-5 and Special Hobby did three P-40F/L releases; 72-211,  72-149, and SO72298. The  MPM kit was 72-068. I have all three, and the MPM kit was one of their earlier releases and was OK, but the Special Hobby releases are much better. Sword has also released new-tool P-40E, P-40K short and long tail, variants , and P-40N kits, and they are  very nice, but the Special Hobby kits are better.  No P-40F, yet, IIRC. Not my scale, but IIRC the Hobbycraft, AMTech, and Ertl P-40F's are the only ones in 1/48 scale, and if I recall correctly, there was a resin upgrade that replaced the inaccurate cowling on the AMTech kit, but it is OOP.

 

MPM kit review

https://modelingmadness.com/scott/allies/previews/specialhobby-mpm/72068.htm

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by 72modeler
added text

[Mark Joyce]

I've built a couple of the 72nd Special Hobby kits, one of its P-40Fs and another its recent P-40E.  While the F is a pretty decent kit, it's definitely earlier generation compared to the E in all areas: fit, detail, accuracy, etc. There's really no comparing the two, and personally I think the newer Special Hobby P-40 kits are the best P-40 kits out now, regardless of scale.

 

I've also built boatloads of the 48th AMT/AMtech/Hobbycraft/etc. P-40F/L kits, which as many know are all the same molds from the last century.  Don't get me wrong; they are probably my favorite kit out there, P-40 or otherwise, and they make for a rather easy, quick build.  That being said, they are really lacking in detail, plus have some accuracy and finesse issues.  The resin nose in the AMtech kit is nice, although it too has its issues (some out there have said it's even less accurate, shape-wise, than the plastic it replaces, although I really don't know if that's correct or not).  Plus, it requires surgery.  Same can be said for the Aeromaster resin nose to turn the Mauve/Eduard kit into a P-40F/L, of which I've built a couple as well (are you starting to realize that I like the P-40F/L? 😀). Not to mention that most of these kits are becoming rare as hen's teeth.

 

I've built one of the 32nd Hasegawa P-40s with the Grey Matter resin F/L nose (am waiting for the custom decals to be finished to complete it), and here again we have a hard-to-find kit with a not-so-easy build.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Eduard comes through with its alleged new-tooled P-40 series, and that a F/L variant is included.  I've recently come across a treasure trove (at least for me😉) of photographs for a number of 79th FG P-40F/Ls with some great markings, some of which have never been done before and none of which has been done correctly. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Giorgio N]

I would agree with Mark on his assessment of the SH P-40 families. I'm not an expert on the P-40 but for some reason I have several and I have quite a soft spot for the F so I have both the original MPM kit and the later SH kits-. The latter are nice but are still short run kits... advanced short runs that really are no more difficult than many mainstream kits, but still the more recent SH kits are in a different league.

 

As to when we'll get some new good kits of the F and L, I guess that these invariably get overshadowed by the E and N. A pity as they carried some very interesting markings. Fingers crossed, maybe one day someone will finally do a good 1/48 F too

[Blimpyboy]

 

How about aircraft from some of the pre-war manoeuvres (maneuvers for the Americans among us) - the colourful bands and crosses help to make the olive and grey scheme a little more vibrant.

 

 

Model Alliance has a nice one on this sheet: https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/ML48190?result-token=Sj6Ta

 

 

From http://ourairports.biz/?p=5988 (caption reads: Curtiss P-40E of the 79th PS, 20th PG, Hamilton Field, at Oakland on December 6,1941. This is the Flight Leader’s aircraft, A Flight. The nose band and command stripe are in yellow no. 48. Propeller is still not camouflaged black, as ordered in May 1941. Fuselage cocarde is covered with a maneuver cross. The personal insignia on the rudder is a major exception to USAAF practice at that time.)

 

 

From https://thejivebombers.com/2020/01/20/pursuit-ships-during-the-1941-louisiana-maneuvers/ (caption reads: Bearing the light blue markings of the “friendly forces” during the maneuvers, this P-40 of Hamilton Field’s 77th Pursuit Squadron readies for another mission against the bad guys of the red force.)

 

 

From https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/p-40/ (caption reads: P-40E of the 20th PG with war games markings, Hamilton Field 1941)

 

 

 

And for other splashes of colour, Ultracast has some P-40 decal sheets with interesting schemes here https://www.ultracast.ca/1-48-Decals-P-40-s/487.htm

 

Also from here https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/p-40/ (caption reads: P-40E of the 18th Fighter Squadron Cold Bay 11 May 1942)

 

 

From https://gr.pinterest.com/dimitrivrettos/profiles-pics-wwii-aircraft/

[72modeler]

@Blimpyboy,

 

Great photos! Loved the early E with the flush gunports. BTW, Wish I were stuck in Australia- going there someday is number 1 through 3 on my bucket list!

Mike

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

3 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Wish I were stuck in Australia- going there someday is number 1 through 3 on my bucket list!

Mike

I regret not taking the job offer given to me in the early 90’s. I could've moved to Australia and been quite happy there. 

[Blimpyboy]

17 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Great photos! Loved the early E with the flush gunports. BTW, Wish I were stuck in Australia- going there someday is number 1 through 3 on my bucket list!

Mike

 

My pleasure!

I hadn't noticed the gunports in that photo! I didn't realise any P-40s had that feature.

 

While it's frustrating to be away from home, I couldn't be 'stuck' in a better place! I was visiting my son over Christmas and got stuck by a combination of bushfires and COVID - Japan is only now letting residents back in the country, but Australian authorities are not letting me out yet. I can't really complain, at my age, I don't want to risk things too much!

Also, I can't complain at all - I have a safe home and can still do work remotely using the computer. So many people are doing it tough.

 

I hope you get a chance to visit - it's a big place and has some pretty nice scenery (and a nice mild winter)! Keep your fingers crossed - one day!

Edited September 2, 2020 by Blimpyboy

[Bruce Archer]

On 8/31/2020 at 8:32 AM, robstopper said:

Hi all,

 

As a potential future project, I fancy doing a 1/48 scale P-40. The best kit option I can find at the moment is the Italeri P-40E/K.

 

My dilemma at the moment is which colour scheme to choose for it. I like the dark earth/mid stone/azue blue scheme with the shark mouth, which the Italeri kit provides options for, but it's only with RAF decals. As the P-40 would sit on the shelf in the "USN/USAAF" section alongside a Corsair and a P-51D, I'd really prefer it to have USAAF markings.

 

It looks like most E models in the desert scheme were RAF aircraft, and most desert scheme USAAF aircraft were F models, fitted with the Merlin rather than the Allison, so had a different nose profile.

 

I could hybridise something to my own taste, but it wouldn't be historically accurate. I'm no rivet-counting stickler for accuracy, and it's only being done for my own viewing pleasure, but I'd like it to represent something which actually existed.

 

Any ideas?

There are several schemes for you. For the P-40E there is the "normal" Olive Drab and Neutral Grey scheme. Several aces with colorful nose art flew P-40s painted thus. LtCol R Scott's P-40E and P-40K both had this scheme. Plus there is a multitude of shark mouths of various styles. Then there are the DuPont Dark Green, dark Earth and lt grey schemes of aircraft taken up from export orders. John Lander's "Stardust Memories" was one of these. P-40Ks were also painted in the US and "RAF" schemes. Finally there are the P-40s from Alaska...the Aleutian Tigers. These had a large yellow tiger's head on the nose. Both the P-40E and P-40K were decorated with the tiger's head. And the base camo was either Olive Drab and Neutral grey or the Commonwealth Green, Brown and Lt Grey with DuPont paints.

 

Let me know if you need or wish more, I have a lot of references and decals...

 

Bruce

[72modeler]

@Bruce Archer,

 

Glad to hear you and yours are all OK. Thanks for all the wonderful Martlet/Wildcat and USAAF aircraft in RAF color articles! Stay safe! I agree- P-40E's are like Bf-109's in that you can do them forever and never duplicate the colors and markings!

Mike

[Seawinder]

One option for an American shark mouth would be the P-40K "Jinx" from the CBI theater. Although incorrectly described as medium gray over light gray, it's been pretty well established that it was in fact Olive Drab over Neutral Gray. FCM has a 1/48 decal sheet with markings; it's currently in stock at Hannants:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/FCM48022

[robstopper]

Thanks, for all the suggestions. My Airfix 1/48 Spitfire 22/24 has just turned up, so will do that first and then ponder the P-40 possibilities

[thorfinn]

Despite generations of illustrators depicting it as a standard green-brown camouflage, there's an excellent case to be made that Edward Nollmeyer's China-based P-40K of the 51st FG, 26th FS, was in fact in the "US equivalent colors" version of the RAF sand/stone scheme:

 

 

And the color version, from the Jack Cook collection, via warbirdsresourcegroup-dot-org:

 

 

It's a neat scheme, with decals readily available in most scales.

 

Cheers

Spoiler

 

[Buz]

On 9/1/2020 at 6:35 PM, Blimpyboy said:

 

 

 

From https://gr.pinterest.com/dimitrivrettos/profiles-pics-wwii-aircraft/

Blimpyboy

 

Just a small correction for you, the aircraft shown above (the last of your larger group) is actually a P-40M not an E or K model, I believe its from the 313FS/50G.....

 

As for schemes, there are so many out there with Camouflaged, from the only E-1 to serve in the desert (yes USAAF Colours), a batch of K models taken over by the USAAF from Guara, to RAF serialed aircraft serving in CBI. Additionally many earlier P-400E-1 (finihsed in the light brown) serving with the 49FG. Good luck finding a scheme you're happy with, hopefully you'll keep us informed on how the build goes.

 

Regards

 

Buz

[Blimpyboy]

22 minutes ago, Buz said:

Just a small correction for you, the aircraft shown above (the last of your larger group) is actually a P-40M

 

Gyaaaaargh!

That'll teach me to put my faith in profile captions...

[Buz]

Oh I think we've all be there before.............and the angle and lack of Grill on the P-40M-1 makes it hard.......

 

[Blimpyboy]

FCM sheet 48022 has a British camouflaged E in US service, as well as a K in a fetching blue scheme.

 

https://modelingmadness.com/scott/decals/fcm/48/fcm48022.htm

Edited September 3, 2020 by Blimpyboy