1/72 Hurricane Mk 1 (metal wing) decals

[Michael51]

I am trying to source, so far without success, decals for Pete Brother's 32 Sqn GZ_L and Johnnie Cock's (RAAF) 87 Sqn ML_K Hurricanes.

 

If they are on the Hannants site I have missed them.

 

Would anyone in The Forum have some leads?

 

Thanks,

 

Michael

[Ed Russell]

36 minutes ago, Michael51 said:

Johnnie Cock's (RAAF) 87 Sqn ML_K Hurricane

If you mean L1963 (?) LK-N it's on a Plastic Planet decal sheet but recorded as a fabric-wing Mk I. If you mean V7273 we have it recorded as LK-V. He did fly others.

Perhaps a photo of which one you mean might be helpful.

These markings are not hard to cobble up from existing after market or kit code decals with a computer-printed serial.

 

[FinnAndersen]

I did this one with code letters from Xtradecals X72189 and the serial printed on clear decal sheet in my computer printer.

 

It depicts Australian pilot Howard Mayers plane of 601 sqn 

 

Of course you are in trouble if there is personal markings on your subject, but ready made decals are only one option; others exist 🙂

 

[Michael51]

12 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

If you mean L1963 (?) LK-N it's on a Plastic Planet decal sheet but recorded as a fabric-wing Mk I. If you mean V7273 we have it recorded as LK-V. He did fly others.

Perhaps a photo of which one you mean might be helpful.

These markings are not hard to cobble up from existing after market or kit code decals with a computer-printed serial.

 

Ed,

Thank you for your post.

Yes a photograph would be helpful but a side view drawing in Osprey's "Aircraft of the aces" nr. 18 at p.61 is what I am working from: M_LK P3394.

My attempts at computer/laser printing have been disastrous so that leaves the cobbling up method.

 

The fabric-or-metal wing matter is covered in other areas in forum postings although I am yet to see a definitive answer, even in the "All the Hurricane questions" section. I think the M_LK illustration is fabric but only because I have assumed that a pointed spinner means a fabric wing. I may well need to be corrected here.

I have nevertheless put a backorder in for the Plastic Planet decals you mention with Hannants.

 

Michael

Edited August 30, 2020 by Michael51
Alzheimer remembers

[Michael51]

8 hours ago, FinnAndersen said:

I did this one with code letters from Xtradecals X72189 and the serial printed on clear decal sheet in my computer printer.

 

It depicts Australian pilot Howard Mayers plane of 601 sqn 

 

Of course you are in trouble if there is personal markings on your subject, but ready made decals are only one option; others exist 🙂

 

 

[Troy Smith]

43 minutes ago, Michael51 said:

I think the M_LK illustration is fabric but only because I have assumed that a pointed spinner means a fabric wing.

spinner/ wing.   No relevance to each other.

 

This has been complicated with the wider circulation of a list of P**** and V**** serials built with fabric wings, and from the few photos about, they were used like this in service.

 

Hurricane props and spinners are complex.  A Mk.I could have 5 different units.   This is eased by knowing the sequence of use though. (this ties in with serials and dates, and where used)

This thread tries to explain what was used on what and when

Anyway.  From the serial and it being a BoB plane,  P3394 should have a blunt Spitfire Rotol unit.   

 

48 minutes ago, Michael51 said:

a side view drawing in Osprey's "Aircraft of the aces" nr. 18 at p.61 is what I am working from: M_LK P3394.

 

My sig line on profiles says it all.   Also, there is now a considerably better idea available now of what Hurricane "X" serial  is likely to look like. 

 

There maybe a pic of LK-M,  there are a few from 87 Sq from the era. 

 

This is the formation shot I was thinking of

 

Note the size and postion and style of the code letters, they are consistent. From a brief eyeball, these are 36 inch high, but also quite wide.

this shows the code order the other side

this also varies, between squadrons, and even over the course of the war...

 

Warning, generic codes are unless you are lucky, usually not quite right.  

 

Google can sometimes help

eg "Johnnie cock hurricane 87 Sq" gets

http://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/Cock.htm

 

"Cock rejoined 87 Squadron on 11th September 1940. On the 26th he claimed a Ju88 destroyed and a Me109 damaged, on the 30th a Ju88 destroyed and probably a Me109 and on 10th October he claimed another probable Me109.

After his engine cut out on patrol on 24th October Cock was unable to avoid colliding with P/O DT Jay. Cock managed to make a forced-landing (below) but Jay was killed while attempting to bale out."

 

Note, this is NOT the same LK-T in the formation above.   Codes are smaller, fin flash is smaller, (factory applied)

I can't see the serial, but it's probably known.  

 

I'll have a hunt about later. 

 

One last point,  you can edit your thread title. The above is not helpful, as  this is only as question is very vague sense,   for example "wanted 32 and 87 BoB Hurricane decals in 72nd "is better.

 

Offhand I ond't know of 32 Sq BoB era, they used very large codes, 40 inch high.    I don't know there is a photof of GZ-L, but there are photos of other 32 Sq Hurricanes.

NOTE despite what you may see in profiles

Port reads GZ-L

Starboard reads GZ-L  (many will show L-GZ, which is wrong...)

 

HTH

 

HTH

 

 

[Michael51]

Troy,

 

Your post is a model of constructive criticism and as such, is extremely helpful to me,

 

I will read this through, thoroughly,

 

Thank you for your help,

 

Michael

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Michael51 said:

I will read this through,

Hi Michael

Glad it was of use.

OK,  a few points.

This page

http://worldwartwodaily.filminspector.com/2016/07/july-26-1940-capture-duke.html

has this image

"F/O Derek H Ward of No 87 Squadron RAF with a Hurricane Mk I LK-M deployed to RAF Hullavington to extend the night defenses. The aircraft was flown by P/O John R "Johnny" Cock on the night of 26 July 1940 to score his sixth victory. In one of the first successful nocturnal interceptions performed by No 10 Group, the 22-year-old Australian succeeded in knocking out a mine-laying He 111 in the glare of Bristol's searchlights."

 

The personal artwork of symbols of bad luck is an interesting detail.   

 

Looking at the 87 formation shot, I now note that LK-Z has smaller code letters than the other 3, and these look the same size as the damaged LK-T,  suggesting there was a switch to smaller codes. 

Using the roundel as a size guide, which is 35 inch,  they look to be 30 inch (2 and 1/2 feet). 

 

Personally, if you could find the serial of the damaged LK-T, that's an interesting subject. 

If you wanted to do P3394 LK-M,  I'd suggest it looked like the one in the formation shot. 

 

Somewhere I have a slim monograph on 87 Sq,  one member was a keen photographer, which is why some interesting images exist!  

 

 

Regarding Peter Brothers, the cover art of the Osprey Hurricane aces, 

 

IIRC the cover art is by @Iain Wyllie  who was a member here, but has not visited since 2015.   But he was a modeller, and Peter Brothers was alive till 2008, and AFAIK, this is an accurate illustration.

also

http://www.ourfinesthour.net/some-of-the-few/air-commodore-pete-brothers/

 

"Air Commodore Brothers at home in 1999 with Roy Nockolds’ painting of his 32 Squadron Hurricane at Biggin Hill."

and

"Battle of Britain: The Photographic Kaleidoscope Volume III, which included a number of previously unpublished photographs from his personal album "

 

So quite possibly based on a photo.  

He was interviewed for the TV Programme "Fighter Ace" which was made in 2002,  in which he was taken up in a 2 seat Spitfire.

(I think the clip is online) 

 

finally, if you have not read this

 

scans are here

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Camoflage-Markings/03-Hawker-Hurricane

 

which is an excellent guide to what changes happened when, there are a lot, one good thing is that it makes dating a photo easier! 

cheers

T

[Michael51]

Troy,

 

Thank you again.

 

With the breadth and depth of the information you have provided, it is a pity that it does not get published in some form. Yes, I know it is on this site but you certainly have coalesced it very well.

 

That Hurricane 'Camouflage and Markings' publication jolted my memory. I am pretty sure I had that publication in an omnibus form, 'Camouflage & Markings: RAF FIghter Command Northern Europe 1936 to 1945' by James Goulding.

 

I would have purchased that here in Melbourne in 1971 or 1972 and lost it after innumerable moves.

 

I have however found and purchased a copy of that omnibus version on abe just now.

 

Thank you again for your help,

 

Michael

[Rafdec]

Michael51,

 

Pete Brothers Hurricane 1, P2921 GZ - L, appears on the " Kits at War " 1/72 scale sheet No. K7 / 9.

 

Best wishes,

 

Steve.