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Black oil and acrylic paint?


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And when I say black I mean BLACK. So when you thin it or mix it with white you don't end up with blue grey or green grey or any other shade of grey (keep the jokes to yourself please this is a family show ūü§£ūüėú)¬†

So black, proper black, 100% black, nothing added, no blues or such just black. 

 

So black? Is there one? 

 

 

 

BLACK! 

 

Tah

A

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I'm not sure I fully understand your question - are you looking for something you want to mix with, or the blackest black? Your mixing question is sort of flawed - what's to say it isn't your white mixing paint tinting the grey either warm or cool? I think all black paints (due to how they are made) are going to show the slightest tint when mixed. This goes from hobby to artist to house paints. Just read through the descriptions of the Winsor & Newton Artist Oils black colors for an example, they are described with brown, blue, or green undertones. If you're looking for a specific shade of grey, I suggest you find an adequate one out of the bottle, or experiment with the white/blacks you have and tinting them with other colors to get the grey you want. 

 

If you're looking for the blackest black available to you, look into Black 3.0 from Stuart Semple. It's the blackest paint you're going to get, partially because it absorbs so much light. Doubt this will be useful for mixing though.

 

As far as scale modeling goes, I don't think I've seen any of the common hobby paints labeled "black" that hasn't been an adequate representation of black. Color on a model is also relative, as surrounding hues can shift the perception of what color a paint looks like, so keep that in mind as well.

 

Think I'm rambling at this point, hopefully I gave even a little bit of insight that could help you. 

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Hi shin

 

Yes my request was a little vague and flippant sorry. To be specific I am after a black which does not have any other colour hues. Yes I've read the Windsor and Newton description and heard about the semple black! 

From other art oil paint posts I realise there is more to black than meets the eye. Opacity and transparency, carbon and oxide etc. 

I think I'm looking for a neutral black but if I have to have a hue I think brown would be best. 

I've tried the valeho black and white mix and that has a definate blue tint. 

So from the Windsor and Newton range the Mars Black and ivory Black with titanium white to create the grey

 

A

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Perhaps the next question is: why do you want a pure Black?  (started before tour post #3, but you still haven't explained what you want this for.)

 

Firstly, this would rarely if ever be an ideal colour to use, as the colours generally referred to as "black"  are rarely purely that.  For example, RAF bombers were painted in Night, which contains some ultramarine, similarly Zero engine cowlings were a blue-black, and as for tyre black...  The only exception I can name is the sooty RDM 2 Special Night applied to RAF bombers and night fighters over 1940/41, which was largely lamp black - although I can't guarantee some other colour was not included.

 

Secondly, there is the matter of what is sometimes called scale effect, where the saturated colours seen in paint are "faded", or reduced in intensity, when seen at a distance or an a model.  This is especially important with black, for painting a subject in a "pure" black paint then makes it impossible to bring out features such as sunken areas, which when viewed (in real life or on photographs) look darker than their surroundings because these are inevitably reflecting light back to the beholder.

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I'm having trouble understanding what you are trying to do. 

12 minutes ago, APA said:

So from the Windsor and Newton range the Mars Black and ivory Black with titanium white to create the grey

This suggests you are trying to get to grey. If so, why not select a grey paint?

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Well, there is Black 3.0 from Stuart Semple.  It's a very pigment dense super-black, but i'm not sure it'll mix with any other colours unless you buy a white from the same vendor.  I've used it to damp down internal reflections inside models before now, and out of direct light it is as black as the ace of spades. :ninja:

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Alright I'll tell you

 

I'm trying to recreate a Black and White photo effect on a WW1 Mk5 tank. As a hobby I also do photography including film so I'm fully aware of white balance and and the effects of other colours on shades. Remove all colour from a colour image is near or actually impossible however if I can get pretty close that would be good so anything would help.

Initially I painted it using a mix of Vallejo 'black' and 'white' to get the various shades of greys to emulate the various shades in a black and white photo of the time. Unfortunately even if you allow for white balance there is a definite blue hue to it. This is also using neutral light. 

 

This is what I got........

 

 

20200823_220346

(You can see from this photo that the white balance is shifted to the brown / yellow end if you look at the background. If I correct the picture in photoshop so the background is 'white' the blue still remains)

 

and this is what I want.....

 

20200823_215753

 

Excuse the awful handwriting! (You wouldn't think I'm a trained draughtsman!!)

 

So you see I need a very neutral grey with no underlying colours. The next plan is to remove all the above, spray it white and then create the shading using thinned black oil paint which I think should do the job. What I don't want is to end up with a blue hue'd tank again. It looks more like an early WW2 German Panzer1

 

There is the option of continuing and then giving it a very light sepia top coat but I want to avoid that if I can.

 

Hope that shed's a bit of light on the question.

 

BTW I've looked all over and I don't think anyone has tried this before?

 

A

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Cool idea, great work on your tank so far. I'm going to repeat what I said above and caution you that the white may be also tinting the colors, not just the black. I think it would ultimately be easier to use some grays as a starting point and tinting them to get the correct shades for base colors you want to match your black/white photo. Or add some red/yellow to knock out the blue of your black mix? 

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@SimonT yes I've seen that technique when researching B&W. I think that is more of a shading process to get to the final coloured finish however it is informative.

 

@Shin Yes there is the question of what the white is doing to things. I will experiment with adding yellow / red / maybe buff / brown to a mix and see what happens. This was a thought as brown is the opposite of blue in the colour wheel. I will use the Vallejo white and an AK white which I have.

 

The idea of using a base white then layering black oil paints was that I would not be using greys as such but varying transparencies of black if that makes sense?

 

I'll buy some Windsor & Newton Griffin Alkyd Ivory Black, Griffin Alkyd Titanium White, Artists' Oil Colour Mars Black and see how things pan out.

 

Thank you for all the info BTW and any more opinions would be very welcome.

 

A

 

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@APA if this helps at all, ran a quick (really crappy) gradient between W&N Artists Oil Titanium White & Ivory Black because I had them out (also the only black oil paint I have). Grey card for you to play with white balance.

 

spacer.png

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@Shin That is very much appreciated. I've put it in Lightroom and corrected (Not very far out) and I think thats a very neutral tone to my eyes. flicking from colour to B&W I can see very little difference. 

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to do this¬†ūüĎć

 

I'll keep you updated on my tests when my oil paints arrive :) 

 

A

 

 

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Quick update

 

All the Windsor and Newton paints have arrived so I've conducted a quick comparison test. Not the most accurate as paper will have it's own tint and I don't have a Neutral Grey card however I think we have a winner!

 

The below pic has the W&N Ivory and Mars oil Blacks with each blended with W&N Titanium White oil. Alongside that there is the W&N Acrylic Mars Black and Titanium White. Finally there is the Vallejo White, Vallejo Black (As already tried and rejected due to the blueness) and an AK Interactive White I had lying around.

 

I think the most interesting thing is the marked difference between the Mars / Titanium Oil blend and the same in the Acrylic blend. The Acrylic seems to have that same marked blue hue as the Vallejo.

The AK white appears to be far less blue and more of a Titanium type white which is handy.

I think the Mars black oil seems to be the most neutral of the blacks.

 

50301200533_9dca97c4e2_o

So heres the plan............

Grey Primer

AK White base coat

Mars Black Oil as a multi layered wash to build up the shade as needed.

Detailing and weathering with Mars Black and Titanium White oils.

 

Wish me luck!!

 

A

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