HMS Conn, camouflage in 1945, Overall Grey, White or Scheme C??

[Stephen Allen]

I am in the process of building a 1/72 scale model of HMS Conn (K509), the 'Captains' class Frigate; hopefully depicting the ship's appearance in April/May 1945.  There are relatively few photographs of the ship at this, or indeed any other, time.  I am seeking some help in interpreting what I am seeing in the photographs that are available. 

 

There is one clear shot from the IWM's collection showing Conn in April 1945 returning to Belfast flying a Jolly Roger signifying the 21st Escort Group's successful sinking of three U-Boats in one cruise.  Looking at this you could be forgiven for thinking the ship is in either a single overall colour, light grey or white, or shows the faintest traces of a colour panel on the hull in what seems to be a very low contrast image.  It's difficult to work out whether changes in tone on the hulls are shadow, streaking of the hull from weather and rust, or the beginning of a colour panel. There is a slight change of tone on the hull where the B55 panel would start. There is also another shot of Conn, undated, from the air, which again could show an overall very light toned scheme. Two photos show gatherings of crew and officers on the forecastle and, again, the paintwork looks to be a very light tone.

 

Other photographs of this Group's ships from the same time frame do show that some ship's in the 21st appear to be in Admiralty Scheme 'C', white with a B55 panel on the hull. This is apparent in a well-known shot of the torpedoed Redmill (K554), with Rupert (K561)in the background, and in a couple of shots of Byron (K508). The drawings/paintings by the official war artist Stephen Bone of Conn at Loch Eriboll in May 1945 also show the ship in a very light tone, whether this is meant to be white or just to show the ship in bright sunlight I do not know.  I cannot find any written descriptions of the ship's appearance at this time, at least not through the references I have, or anything available online.

 

I had originally thought that Conn might be in plain G45/AP 507C, as the use of this late war on Frigates and other escorts has been discussed in some of my references, but the definite camouflage panels on other ships in the Group has me rethinking this as does the very light tone shown in the photos. Certainly Scheme 'C' would make sense for these escorts at that time.  The close up shots of Conn also show that, contrary to the recommended camouflage practices of the time some of the deck fittings such as bollards are painted the same dark colour as the deck, there is also evidence of a dark kicking strip around the bottom face of the forward 3 inch gun tub (even darker than the deck so possibly black?), dark contrasting paint underneath ladder rungs and the boot topping appears not to have been over painted. I have included, where possible, the images discussed and would be keen to get other's opinions on these matters.

cheers

 

Steve

 

 

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Is this where you think you see a demarcation on HMS Conn?

 

If so, the lining out and contrast is entirely consistent with what I'd expect to see on Scheme C.

 

[Stephen Allen]

Hello Jamie

 

that’s certainly where I would like it to be! Yes, that’s the very slight change my eyes see.

 

What do you think about the overall tone of the scheme? Light enough for white?

 

Steve

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

20 minutes ago, Stephen Allen said:

What do you think about the overall tone of the scheme? Light enough for white?

 

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

 

I think so. There are reflections on the deck of the ship the camera is on up by the davits implying that the deck is wet. Combined with the lack of any obvious shadow or glare, I am fairly confident this was taken on a grey, damp day.

[Coors54]

Hi Steve, glad to see you have started a thread on you Conn model.

When I built my dad his model of Conn before he died, he said she was in a very light grey which I took to be 507C. But we know how reliable old eye witness memory can be.

 

Dave

 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Coors54

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

6 minutes ago, Coors54 said:

Hi Steve, glad to see you have started a thread on you Conn model.

When I built my dad his model of Conn before he died, he said she was in a very light grey which I took to be 507C. But we know how reliable old eye witness memory can be.

 

Dave

 

 

 

Not at all to suggest your dad shared similar views, but I quite recently came to possess a number of files of research and letters from and to a man who started researching Royal Navy camouflage in 1989 for his radio controlled ship models. One of the responses from a veteran was quite severely reprimanding him for even considering camouflage and worrying about the colours since camouflage "ruined the lines of the ship", and that his old ship looked much better in overall light grey.

 

Leaving aside that that was in no way a valid answer to the question that had been asked, it does hint that at least in some individuals preference can colour (no pun intended) their answers.

[Stephen Allen]

Jamie and Dave

 

Thank you to both of you for your responses. It could well be that Conn, like others of her class, went through iterations of camouflage, and memories of some may be stronger than others for crew members. For the time period in question I am tending towards Scheme C, as that would be consistent with the other ships of the Group around that time. Actual paint won’t be applied for another couple of months so I will continue to eye off what evidence I can find.  Fortunately I have stocked up on the new NARN range since they became available in Oz again so at least the paints I do choose will be authentic.

 

There’s another twist to RC model ships and camouflage. Given the right conditions of light and fog (and we get plenty of early morning fog here in Canberra) the scaled down schemes and colours do just what the designers intended in terms of course confusion and concealment!

 

Dave - I will post some more shots in a work-in-progress soon.
 

thanks to you both

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Coors54]

Jamie/Steve,

 

It's very much the norm that anyone who isn't a modeller or some sort of artist just see's black, white, red etc. Arcane colour references really don't mean anything and although I'm sure dad was quite convinced she was grey in his mind, the fact that he didn't mention the block of colour on the hull or that since he had been with Conn since collection from the yard in Boston, any repaints (which he would have taken part in), make me think he was just saying what he thought it was after 50 odd years of normal life.

As we must always remember, they had other things on their minds back then other than what colour is it painted!

At the time I built the model (1997), I was not really interested in naval matters or camouflage so although I said 507C earlier I'm sure I just used a can of (probably) Light Aircraft Grey to finish his model. 

He was happy with it, bless him, and I inherited the model back when he die, I've put it in the loft and haven't looked at it for years, I would love a 1/144 scale kit to be able to redo her properly.

 

Dave

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Absolutely right Dave that the colours would simply not have mattered to the average crew member!

[Coors54]

Just hunting through some links to the IWM site and a photograph of the 21st Escort Group SO and his fiance came up -

 

 

Taken on the bridge but look at the contrast between the inside verticals of the bridge screens and the top sills, particularly the ones to the left of the picture.

I don't think this is sunlight, it looks a dull dank day by the background, but could this be white exterior and the original grey left on the inside surfaces?

 

 

Slightly different composition (and no smiles) but look at the ladder edge on the right.

 

Dave

Edited August 27, 2020 by Coors54

[Stephen Allen]

Hi Dave

 

You could indeed be right, particularly with the edge of the ladder, as it contrasts so clearly with the grey tone of the bridge. And that's the ladder that leads to the Director Tower.

 

I also had yet another look at the main pic of Conn returning to Belfast.  It's interesting that the White Ensign seems to be the same tone as the ship.  I'd love to see a high resolution version of this particular photo - I think I will write to the IWM and see what they can offer either as a hard print or a Hi-res download.

 

 

Thanks

 

Steve