petetasker Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Quick question re the D3 observers cockpit. The aircraft could be flown manned or unmanned. Were manned flights a single crew operation or did it also require an observer. I know a lot of the drone technology was crammed into the observers cockpit. Does anyone know whether they removed the observers ejection seat in order to fit it all in? Bet no ones got pictures of the D3 observers cockpit - or am I wrong. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Good question, I can ask somebody who was there. I'm under the impression that they were generally flown single pilot only for operations and that the Universal Drone Pack remained in the coal hole, but I could be wrong. The pilots notes certainly speak of it as being single crew, even stating the type of single ejection seat and abandoning techniques You are right with most of the detail, and don't forget the observers hatch was usually clear, rather than painted black (from the inside) as on service FAW.2s. A few years back I went to site in S.Wales housing various spares, dumped in the grass was various bits of the drone control and receiver equipment, and other parts like brand new wheels etc. Wish now I took pictures. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 11 hours ago, 71chally said: Good question, I can ask somebody who was there. I'm under the impression that they were generally flown single pilot only for operations and that the Universal Drone Pack remained in the coal hole, but I could be wrong. The pilots notes certainly speak of it as being single crew, even stating the type of single ejection seat and abandoning techniques You are right with most of the detail, and don't forget the observers hatch was usually clear, rather than painted black (from the inside) as on service FAW.2s. A few years back I went to site in S.Wales housing various spares, dumped in the grass was various bits of the drone control and receiver equipment, and other parts like brand new wheels etc. Wish now I took pictures. Please do have an ask around to see what you can find out on details of the D3. I have been trying to get details of the Universal Drone Pack for years. Martian 👽 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Martian said: Please do have an ask around to see what you can find out on details of the D3. I have been trying to get details of the Universal Drone Pack for years. Martian 👽 Like I say, I do wish I got photos when I had the chance, there was the UDP, the ground controllers and the pilots selector panel all just dumped there. I will do what I can. There are some illustration of the pilots cockpit only here, https://www.avialogs.com/aircraft-d/de-havilland/item/3435-xp-924-pilot-s-notes-sea-vixen-d-mk3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Thanks Chally, I already have the Pilot's Notes but thanks for flagging them up anyway. Martian 👽 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCrisps Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 No pictures unfortunately but this article describes the installation in some detail. It mentions that the Universal Drone Pack was designed to fit the ejector seat rails in the Observer's position, which I assume would therefore mean that it was strictly a single crew aircraft! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetasker Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 6 hours ago, ChocolateCrisps said: No pictures unfortunately but this article describes the installation in some detail. It mentions that the Universal Drone Pack was designed to fit the ejector seat rails in the Observer's position, which I assume would therefore mean that it was strictly a single crew aircraft! That’s a great help many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Perhaps we can keep this thread going in the hope that we can bring more information as to what the changes to the D3 looked like Martian 👽 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetasker Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 Still love to see some pictures of the observers cockpit with the drone kit fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCrisps Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Does anyone have Sitting Ducks & Peeping Toms, by Michael Draper? I haven't got round to buying a copy yet, but surely if any book is going to have photos of the drone kit, that will be the one! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, ChocolateCrisps said: Does anyone have Sitting Ducks & Peeping Toms, by Michael Draper? I haven't got round to buying a copy yet, but surely if any book is going to have photos of the drone kit, that will be the one! I do have the book and there is a picture of a D3 with the drone pack displayed in front of it. However, the picture is quite small and my attempts to scan it and then enlarge it merely resulted in the image starting to pixilate. Bugger! There must have been a manual for the beastly thing somewhere at some stage, if only to explain how to connect the pack to the aircraft's services. Martian 👽 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, ChocolateCrisps said: Does anyone have Sitting Ducks & Peeping Toms, by Michael Draper? I haven't got round to buying a copy yet, but surely if any book is going to have photos of the drone kit, that will be the one! Yes, and Yes, P140, photo of the UDP mounted on an ejector seat service trolley in front of a Vixen. As per above, the UDP replaced the observers ejection seat. Conversion included removal of all surplus equipment including radar to reduce weight, and the pilot had a push button controller presumably mounted in place of the sight, this photo might show this setup (from Stoneykirk Aviation Museum 2AV8 facebook page) There's no photo's of the converted observers cockpit, but I'd suspect standard FAW2 with all the instrumentation removed, UDP mounted on ejection seat rails, with wiring harneses leading to pilot's cockpit to connect into the controller, flight instrumentation and flight control systems This may be of interest http://cdn.rochesteravionicarchives.co.uk/img/catalog/ZZ_1354029177_DDBR0133+(O%26A-1b).pdf 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 @Martian, how does the photo above compare with the pilots notes? The airframe is XP925 which went to Tarrant Rushton for D.3 conversion, but this wasn't completed before it was broken up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushan_Farsight Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 an out there idea, but according to Companies House, FR Aviation Ltd still exists and is trading - could it be worth someone dropping them a line/email and seeing if they have any pics in the archives? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 26 minutes ago, Kushan_Farsight said: 31 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said: @Martian, how does the photo above compare with the pilots notes? The airframe is XP925 which went to Tarrant Rushton for D.3 conversion, but this wasn't completed before it was broken up. The picture looks spot on as compared to the pilot's notes Dave so clearly XP925 was well into the conversion programme when she was broken up. If one looks very carefully at the picture you can also see that the observer's cockpit has been stripped out. I have just taken the liberty of contacting the Boscombe Down Museum at Old Sarum on behalf of us all to see if they can help or failing that give us some pointers as to where we might look. Llanbedr was managed from Boscombe Down so it may be that there is something kicking about in the archives at the museum or the airfield. A long shot maybe but if you don't ask..... Martian 👽 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 33 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said: how does the photo above compare with the pilots notes? They're in the link in post #4, and the photo is the same as what they show. That is the switch button controller where the PAS is fitted on the FAW.2. I would think contacting FRA is a good idea aswel. I've still not been able to make the enquiries this end, but I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, 71chally said: They're in the link in post #4, Hadn't been able to access them as my login was on another computer, I've since had a look and agree, thats the PAS above the instrument panel. 1 hour ago, Martian said: so clearly XP925 was well into the conversion programme when she was broken up Not necessarily, as the cockpit is in the process of a long restoration. The PAS has been mounted there, but that could have been a recent decision to finish the cockpit as a D.3 1 hour ago, Martian said: If one looks very carefully at the picture you can also see that the observer's cockpit has been stripped out. There's a few more photo's on the facebook page that show the observers cockpit, well stripped out. How much was stripped at Tarrant Rushton, then when scrapping the airframe, followed by what's been stripped by ready for restoration is anyones guess. https://www.facebook.com/search/photos/?q=Stoneykirk Aviation Museum 2AV8&f=AbrPxvFFPD_U5sjJQSUWQ9ARKwTJ5ygt6TFEoQ5PeBeTXwYe_KqUOWFciUGTaPpSdi7OhsaFQFGCF6WWvDLmpCXHwtGJ2RVgRMFZcyTmXE47EGP895qBsMWT2kLERc3qMxJERANrUI5kZ8jMOsUPyGQC and https://www.gluseum.com/GB/Stoneykirk/322591105151410/Stoneykirk-Aviation-Museum---2AV8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) I agree Dave, as it's a restoration you can't rely on it being a D.3 fit, unless there is documentation to prove it was like that, the instrument panel is slightly different for a start. From memory XP925 was a completely gutted cockpit section at one time. Looks like they are doing a fine job restoring it. Sorry assumption on my part that you could see the PNs in the link. BTW, that's not the PAS fitted, that was the Pilot Attack Sight fitted to service Mk.1s and 2s, it's the UDP selector panel for the pilot on the D.3. There are other minor changes to the instrument panel, such as the undercarriage indicator being relocated so it's worth checking against a standard panel if you intend to detail these parts. Just in case for anyone else, Sea Vixen D.3 instrument panel by James Thomas, on Flickr Sea Vixen D.3 Pack Control Unit selector panel by James Thomas, on Flickr Edited August 28, 2020 by 71chally 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Best I can do, as @Martian says, it does start to pixellate if you try to enlarge it more. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Thanks Dave. Martian 👽 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petetasker Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 21 hours ago, Dave Swindell said: Best I can do, as @Martian says, it does start to pixellate if you try to enlarge it more. Absolutely superb info - thanks very much Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 That literally fits on to the observers seat vertical beam, you can tell by the fittings at the top, so as the article says it a fairly straightforward fit. It's even mounted on an ejector seat servicing trolley there. Great info Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now