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Accuracy of AMMO by Mig Jiménez RAF WWII Colours


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Does anybody have comments on the accuracy of AMMO by Mig Jiménez colours for WWII RAF aircraft?  I'm fed up with buying new paint at my LMS and discovering noticeable differences when compared with the colour swatches in RAF Museum reference book British Aviation Colours of World War Two.

AMMO recommends the following:

Dark Earth..........................A.MIG-070 Medium Brown

Dark Green.........................A.MIG-915 Dark Green

Sky.....................................A.MIG-243 Sky Type S

Interior Grey Green............A.MIG-219 Interior Green

Ocean Grey........................A.MIG-245 Ocean Grey

Medium Sea Grey..............A.MIG-246 Medium Sea Grey

Middle Stone.....................A.MIG-030 Sand Yellow

Azure Blue.........................A.MIG-257 Azure Blue

Edited by Nobby Clarke
fixed typo
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So far I've used AMMO for Interior Green, and Dark Earth and Dark Green myself. I quite liked how their Interior Green looks right from the bottle, but I made my own mixes for Dark Earth and Dark Green because I do not like their premade colours for those two. I used these mixes (and the Interior Green from the bottle) for my 1/72 Lancaster - you can see the photos here and I also mention the colours I used for the mixes and the ratios. I might make the Dark Earth a little more brown next time however though.

 

From the bottle, I think Sky looks acceptable and so does Medium Sea Grey, but I've only tested these colours on a small piece of sample plastic.

 

The Ocean Gray looked too light to me when I tested it, so if I do ever use it I'm going to use a darker mix for that.

 

I haven't seen the Middle Stone and Azure Blue so I don't have an opinion on those.

 

One tip: thin AMMO with Hataka acrylic thinner - makes it work really well!

 

 

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  • 7 months later...

I did not proceed down the path of MIG AMMO acrylics so I cannot comment on their accuracy. What turned me off was a comment from a fellow modeler who told me that they suffer from bad tip dry in his air brush. I would have to experiment with thinning and use of retardant/flow-aid to overcome this. What is your experience?

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I usually use the Vallejo brand but their RAF dark green is so thin that it takes so many coats one almost loses the definition beneath, so I thought I’d try something different and after reading good reviews on the mig paints thought I’d go for their early ww2 RAF set. The spray really nicely, no clogging and very good coverage. My only concern is that the green looks far too bright and much lighter than my equivalent Vallejo or Humbrol 30, the age old standard for RAF green. I’m going to persevere with it and see how it looks after a bit of light weathering and decals. If I can work out how, I’ll see if I can publish some pictures here when done. 

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What are the ID numbers of the paints you are using? I would be very interested in seeing photos since my local hobby shop has started stocking the AMMO line of acrylics. 
I found a similar phenomenon with the AK Real Color lacquers. Their Dark Earth  and Sky are ok, but the Dark Green has too much olive. Not sure why this is but I suspect that manufacturers are matching their paints to BS 381C 241 Dark Green which may not be the same as WWII MAP/RAF Dark Green. 

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4 hours ago, Tour de Airfix said:

I've just had a go at using the dark green and dark earth but am not sure I'm 100% convinced  

I used the Mig Dark Green on a Spit last year and I thought it was way too over saturated. Even after weathering it looked almost toy like. 

 

On the other hand I use the Mig Ammo luftwaffe colours on my 1940 aircraft and they seem okay.

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2 minutes ago, Nobby Clarke said:

How did the MIG Dark Earth and Sky turn out?

Not as bad as the green but I still felt the Dark Earth was a little too bright or just wrong in some way. Sky seemed okay but it is quite a complex colour so I don't feel qualified to pass judgement on it. The long and short of it is that I prefer Vallejo for RAF (and even then not the green they provide in their RAF set). For my Battle of Britain Luftwaffe I will stick with Mig for the time being.

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BS 241 Dark Green should be virtually the same colour as the MAP version, being one of the colours that was incorporated into BS381C.

I think a lot of modellers over the years have got used to using Humbrol 30 for Dark Green in the belief that Humbrol had it right. Even in the 1980s there was discussion about Humbrol 30 and it not matching Dark Green. 

Vallejo Dark Green looks wrong to me as being too bright. 

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As a comparison, these are Tamiya and Vallejo browns and greens. I only have two ammo bottles, something with the smell turns me off of them.
The Vallejo 324 spoon stands out with it's lemony tinge.

 

 

y4mufGxmS89mxyG3LyWKh-jZEyYNB3S3Qb2d6mYp

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2 hours ago, Tour de Airfix said:

I usually use the Vallejo brand but their RAF dark green is so thin that it takes so many coats one almost loses the definition beneath, so I thought I’d try something different and after reading good reviews on the mig paints thought I’d go for their early ww2 RAF set. The spray really nicely, no clogging and very good coverage. My only concern is that the green looks far too bright and much lighter than my equivalent Vallejo or Humbrol 30, the age old standard for RAF green. I’m going to persevere with it and see how it looks after a bit of light weathering and decals. If I can work out how, I’ll see if I can publish some pictures here when done. 

 

 

I agree on the Vallejo Air Dark Green, covers very little and to be honest I don't like the colour either (see below)

However I would not use Humbrol 30 as a paint to compare other paints to, unless this has recently changed... this paint is very frar from an age old standard for Dark Green, it is on the contrary quite different from the actual colour

 

36 minutes ago, Mr T said:

BS 241 Dark Green should be virtually the same colour as the MAP version, being one of the colours that was incorporated into BS381C.

I think a lot of modellers over the years have got used to using Humbrol 30 for Dark Green in the belief that Humbrol had it right. Even in the 1980s there was discussion about Humbrol 30 and it not matching Dark Green. 

Vallejo Dark Green looks wrong to me as being too bright. 

 

I share your same view on the Vallejo paint, although I find this tricky to judge because it seems to change depending on the light.. sometimes looks almost Ok, other times look too bright. For this reason and also for its poor coverage, I have not used this after my first tests and I prefer to use other paints, including a couple from Vallejo's own Model Color line

Edited by Giorgio N
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FYI. There is an excellent britmodeller thread on RAF Dark Greens: 

 

Also look for the post from Mr. Millman on 5 April 2017 in this RAF Dark Green thread, which states (in part)...

 

"The MAP colour standard for Dark Green as measured is a Munsell Yellow (like Olive Drab) approaching Green Yellow, quite dark at 2.9 and of low saturation at 1.5. Geoff Thomas' Munsell equivalent as published in ‘Eyes for the Phoenix’ (Hikoki, 1999) & ‘True Colours’ (Airfix Magazine, Feb 1983) is similar to mine - 10 Y 3/1.5 vs 10 Y 2.9/1.5 - just being a tiny tad lighter. 

 

The current BS 381C gives 241 Dark Green as a Munsell Green Yellow, approximately 2.3 GY 3.3/1.2. Taking the BS 381c L*a*b* measurements the difference from the wartime colour is at 5.54 where < 2.0 = a close match. The modern colour is slightly less saturated and lighter. However the BS 381c L*a*b* measurements equate to Munsell 9.8 Y 3.5/0.9 so the issue is around the fine - and close - transition from a Y to GY. Either way that is on the "dark yellow"/olive drab side of green whilst a colder, less olive, viridian-type green would measure as a Munsell Green or Blue Green."

 

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2 hours ago, Nobby Clarke said:

What are the ID numbers of the paints you are using? I would be very interested in seeing photos since my local hobby shop has started stocking the AMMO line of acrylics. 
I found a similar phenomenon with the AK Real Color lacquers. Their Dark Earth  and Sky are ok, but the Dark Green has too much olive. Not sure why this is but I suspect that manufacturers are matching their paints to BS 381C 241 Dark Green which may not be the same as WWII MAP/RAF Dark Green. 

Nobby ... here’s the set

https://www.migjimenez.com/en/acrylic-colors/1290-raf-wwii-early-colors.html

Edited by Tour de Airfix
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22 minutes ago, Nobby Clarke said:

FYI. There is an excellent britmodeller thread on RAF Dark Greens: 

 

Also look for the post from Mr. Millman on 5 April 2017 in this RAF Dark Green thread, which states (in part)...

 

"The MAP colour standard for Dark Green as measured is a Munsell Yellow (like Olive Drab) approaching Green Yellow, quite dark at 2.9 and of low saturation at 1.5. Geoff Thomas' Munsell equivalent as published in ‘Eyes for the Phoenix’ (Hikoki, 1999) & ‘True Colours’ (Airfix Magazine, Feb 1983) is similar to mine - 10 Y 3/1.5 vs 10 Y 2.9/1.5 - just being a tiny tad lighter. 

 

The current BS 381C gives 241 Dark Green as a Munsell Green Yellow, approximately 2.3 GY 3.3/1.2. Taking the BS 381c L*a*b* measurements the difference from the wartime colour is at 5.54 where < 2.0 = a close match. The modern colour is slightly less saturated and lighter. However the BS 381c L*a*b* measurements equate to Munsell 9.8 Y 3.5/0.9 so the issue is around the fine - and close - transition from a Y to GY. Either way that is on the "dark yellow"/olive drab side of green whilst a colder, less olive, viridian-type green would measure as a Munsell Green or Blue Green."

 

Ok you lost me there .. so where does this leave A.MIG-915  Dark Green (BS 241)  ? 🤦‍♂️

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2 hours ago, Pete F said:

Not as bad as the green but I still felt the Dark Earth was a little too bright or just wrong in some way. Sky seemed okay but it is quite a complex colour so I don't feel qualified to pass judgement on it. The long and short of it is that I prefer Vallejo for RAF (and even then not the green they provide in their RAF set). For my Battle of Britain Luftwaffe I will stick with Mig for the time being.

Pete .. what green do you then use for RAF? It was my dissatisfaction with Vallejo that led me to Mig 🤦‍♂️

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13 minutes ago, Tour de Airfix said:

Ok you lost me there .. so where does this leave A.MIG-915  Dark Green (BS 241)  ? 🤦‍♂️

The referenced thread discusses some other acrylic choices for RAF Dark Green. You may find a useful alternative in there. 
 

The quote from N. Millman indicates that the BS 381C 241 Dark Green is slightly lighter (and less saturated) than the MAP/RAF shade. Since the MIG paint is labeled “Dark Green (BS 241)” this may be the reason why the MIG colour is too light. 

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2 minutes ago, Nobby Clarke said:

The referenced thread discusses some other acrylic choices for RAF Dark Green. You may find a useful alternative in there. 
 

The quote from N. Millman indicates that the BS 381C 241 Dark Green is slightly lighter (and less saturated) than the MAP/RAF shade. Since the MIG paint is labeled “Dark Green (BS 241)” this may be the reason why the MIG colour is too light. 

Ah I see ... also found a post where Vallejo 70.893 US Dark Green is suggested ... which doesn’t look miles away from this Mig version I’ve got 😂

 

It’s a minefield 😩

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1 hour ago, Tour de Airfix said:

Pete .. what green do you then use for RAF? It was my dissatisfaction with Vallejo that led me to Mig 🤦‍♂️

 

1 hour ago, Tour de Airfix said:

Ah I see ... also found a post where Vallejo 70.893 US Dark Green is suggested ... which doesn’t look miles away from this Mig version I’ve got 😂

 

It’s a minefield 😩

It's not, they are just a bunch of incompetents.   The use of post war BS381 and even worse, FS595 really adds to the confusion.

27 minutes ago, Nobby Clarke said:

Right. 70.893 is not that close. For Vallejo Model Colors try:

  • 70.892 Yellow Oliva FS34083 RAL 6008, or
  • 70.894 Olive Green/RLM 80

they are both much closer.

I wouldn't trust Vallejo's STATED matches for toffee.

 

I can confirm that a brushed out test of 70.894 Olive Green/RLM 80 is a very good visual match to the RAF Museum chip card Dark Green.

 

Vallejo Model Color 70.921 English Uniform is a very good match for Dark Earth

US Flat Earth is a bit redder, and it the one on the right.

32651236687_e7b4c9f041_b.jpg50620618 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

left - English Uniform, right, US Flat Earth

33716726818_7fc0961a12_b.jpg50620620 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

 

70.885 Pastel Green is stated as a match to ANA 610, which was the US Sky for Lend Lease,   which has a FS595 match,  70.885  is visually a good match to the ANA610 chip in the Monogram Guide to USN painting, it's slightly lighter and greyer than MAP Sky,   but it's the closest Vallejo I have found so far to Sky.   This is it in daylight, with a wash, you can see what I mean about being lighter and greyer, MAP Sky is a bit more  green-yellow,  but I think fine for a in use Sky, or for  Lend Lease types done in ANA 610,  which would be FAA

47483722972_b2db487631_b.jpg50620693 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

 

Model Color is obviously thicker than Model Air, but it's not a huge chore to thin paint, and if anything, a better deal,  as you effectively get more paint for your money if airbrushing...

3 hours ago, Mr T said:

I think a lot of modellers over the years have got used to using Humbrol 30 for Dark Green in the belief that Humbrol had it right. Even in the 1980s there was discussion about Humbrol 30 and it not matching Dark Green. 

Humbrol 30 was a blue-green in 1975!    I used Airfix paint back then in preference,  and even aged 9, knew that Humbrol 30 was much bluer colour than Airfix M3 Green (back then of course Airfix had to right....actually, the main Airfix paint matches were pretty good back then, as scale matches as well...I have various wrecks painted as was recommended in the instructions) 

 

I'm not making this up....

 

this is a Blenheim, from then, done in Humbrol 30, though this is under artificial light and a layer of dust... The Dark Earth I assume is Airfix M5.

The underside is a mix. 

49913871831_dfd7d55025_b.jpg50620020 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

Even Humbrol Authentics was too blue, The Scale Model BoB series recommended adding a dash of red to it, which killed the blue and made it more olive ....

 

I digress, hope of use?

 

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I used their RAF desert camo set after trying decanting Tamiya spray cans and found them to be easy to spray straight from the bottle and accurate enough that my finished Spit looks right to my eyes.

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1 hour ago, Tour de Airfix said:

This is what A.MIG-915  Dark Green (BS 241) is looking like to me

very hard to judge as under artificial light, but anything like they really appear, the green is too light and bright, and the Dark Earth look like mud, to dark and chocolate brown.   Dark Earth 

 

This period shot shows the colours well, note how the roundel colours are correct, and the uniforms/grass/faces etc. 

 

3052829500_b0b527c484_b.jpgSpitfire in England by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Dark Green is an Olive Green, Dark Earth has a subtle greenness to it, both are of a similar tone.  

 

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13 hours ago, Tour de Airfix said:

Pete .. what green do you then use for RAF?

Model Air: US Forest Green 71.294

and 71.323 Dk Earth 

 

This combination hits the spot for me after about 6 different attempts using Mig/Tamiya and Vallejo. I think I got a slightly better green by using Tamiya's but had to mix up a dark earth - the convenience of not mixing and using Model Air straight from the bottle works for me.

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I’m going with Ammo Mig just to shame them when I share later. I bought these on the understanding they did what they said on the tin ... they are not cheap so shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it if they are so wrong. It’s not as though Ammo are a small player in this modelling lark 

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