Smudge Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 I finally managed to acquire an AZ Hawker Hart Fighter. I'm slightly puzzled by the 'Fighter' description though. Isn't this a Hawker Demon? Or are there some subtle differences I should be aware of if I want to make a Demon? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Sounds good! I think I might have that kit in the stash too. Here is the Wiki on the Hawker Hart/Demon. The Demon had some changes but nothing too out of hand for the normal modeler. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hart#Demon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted August 22, 2020 Author Share Posted August 22, 2020 Hi John, nice to hear from you. Thanks for the link. Yes, I think the kit has all the necessary parts for a Demon. It's just the 'Fighter' reference that puzzled me. Which of course (thanks to the link) I now realise just refers to the development of the Hart into the Demon. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Masters Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Smudge said: It's just the 'Fighter' reference that puzzled me. Aha! Is yours the Finnish version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrik Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 I suppose you have the Hart/Hart Fighter boxing. Then the naming should be fine as it portraits K1952, one of the first six Demons that were ordered as Hart Fighters and only later renamed Demons. Please be aware the kit is a kind of trap (for lack of a less offending words) for the unsuspecting modeller. It is actually the AZ Hind kit, pretending the conversion to Demon requires just a few minor touches and extra parts here and there. In fact it is not so, as you are going to find out sooner or later. I think the worst part of it would be milling the gun slot on the starboard fuselage side, something the instructions omit to mention at all. And please do notice the kit propeller has wrong rotation. Kora makes a resin replacement. Good luck with your build! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 21 hours ago, John Masters said: Aha! Is yours the Finnish version? No, sorry if I've not been clear. 8 hours ago, Patrik said: I suppose you have the Hart/Hart Fighter boxing. Then the naming should be fine as it portraits K1952, one of the first six Demons that were ordered as Hart Fighters and only later renamed Demons. Yes, that's the one. Thanks, Patrick. I think that clears it up. Odd thing about the propeller, thanks for pointing it out. By the way, I very much enjoyed your Turret Demon build (which I have just revisited). I shall have to add one to my 'wish list'. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 I've created a new gun slot just by careful filing with a small pointed round file. Time consuming but not difficult. However, Hart Fighters are not Demons. Demons have a lowered top to the rear fuselage, as (I very strongly suspect) do all the Hart variants with the sloping gunner's position. Many plans and models miss this altogether. This was discussed shortly after the kit appeared on this forum, with contributions from John Adams of Aeroclub ("Johnaero" here.) I wish I'd known that before I filed the gun position - and I've still to replace the prop. It can wait... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: However, Hart Fighters are not Demons.................. Hi Graham. Yes, I think this is the crux of the matter. To answer my original question 'Isn't this a Hawker Demon?' No, not really. It is a Hart Fighter and correctly identified as such by AZ, as Patrick noted. So I think I will build it as such, and use the Airfix Demon for my Demon builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Yes, but Patrik states that they were later called Demons, when there was a visible difference between these types. The conversion requires more than a few minor touches. The Airfix Demon also lacks the lowered rear fuselage, apart from its other shortcomings. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Hart Fighter = one forward firing gun Demon = two forward-firing guns. There's a Hart fighter pic here as just found via Google on a random Flickr site showing where the second forward gun isn't. Pic evidently from the John Adams collection, though of course it's not one he took himself, being a spring lamb compared to whoever the photographer actually was... Pity it is not a bit squarer on to the side or I would feel more able to express a firm opinion of the upper rear fuselage contours, but it looks the same as the Demon line to me, and I think it's logical and reasonable for it to have the same lower line as the Demon given the extent of the re-work done expressly to improve the effectiveness of the gunner, which includes sight lines. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrik Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Thanks a lot for the eye-opening post @Work In Progress. You are right and I was wrong. K File contains photo of K1954 on page 159, confirming no gun on the starboard side. The photo is from good enough angle to show that the top of the rear fuselage was most probably lowered in the same way as with all Demons. Apology to @Smudge for misleading his build. And apology to AZ/KP for being so negative here, though I still do not like their "one mold fits all" business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted August 25, 2020 Author Share Posted August 25, 2020 Hi @Work In Progress Thanks for posting the lovely photograph. @Patrik No need to apologise, thanks for your interest in my project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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