treker_ed Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) I'm not an admin - nor do I have any connection to the running of the board; however... If I read this correctly, the board is technically privately owned, it's not a publicly listed or limited company, therefore there is no obligation on the owner of the site to publish or state what they pay the hosting company to provide their services, or publish annual accounts unlike public companies or even charities. We are here at their "request", we apply to become members, they do not have to agree to anyone who applies to be a member. I personally am happy with the way this site is run, and operated on our behalf by the site admins and mods (who are quite probably one and the same - some sites have admins and separate moderators). I don't need to know the minute detail of how the background server is operated, how the software is designed, how much all this costs etc. As long as it works that is totally fine by me (mind you being a computer nerd who build computers I have an inkling how it all works anyway.....). I have total faith in @Mike to be running in all good faith and to be acting in complete honesty with the money donated by the BM massive! I would love to donate, but as a non working, semi-retired (for medical reasons) person I have extremely limited funds and am unable to do so. I love using BM and refer to it almost every time I have an ongoing build to see if there are any tips, or issues that I should be aware of. May things continue for a very, very long time. Long live BM! (written just as Mike posted his response) Edited August 31, 2020 by treker_ed 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qn30jEkPz7 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Mike said: Anyway, if anyone isn't happy with the way the site is run, they can do one of two things. Leave and never come back, or refrain from donating and accept the status quo I’ve not had any ax to grind or sure what the previous history has been but am surprised at the turn this has taken. If soliciting donations with Britmodeller as a non-profit org within the UK aren’t there legal standards and best practices you could point people toward as being in line with? If, as in this thread, donors or prospective donors ask questions isn’t there a duty from the fundraiser regulator to avoid ambiguity in answering? Edited August 31, 2020 by LostCosmonauts Better wording to sound less accusatory 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Poultney Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 39 minutes ago, Mike said: If we reach the size of Facebook, we may consider it. But only if Julien promises not to wear his budgie smugglers on the Caribbean beach as it frightens the Supermodels..... Or we may of course really waste the money and engage Airfix to produce a 1/24 Scale Vulcan You know I’d buy it.... 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorby Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I must admit I am curious about the running costs and would love to know a ballpark figure - just out of interest, not trouble-making. The suggestion that it cost a few Tamiya 1/32 kits is a tiny bit vague when the definition of 'few' is 'not many, but more than one'. So a few Tamiya kits could be from £150 to £1,000+! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I gave up doing recreational drugs decades ago and only have the occasional drink, as I don't really need that stuff. But this place I need and gladly chip in to help. I have set myself up fairly well, financially, in my retirement and can easily afford the donations I've made. I could easily double it, if the forum requires it. As far as how Mike and crew spend that money, I couldn't care less. If they might, on occasion, purchase a bottle of fine spirits to sip on while watching over this crazy lot of glue sniffers, then I'm good with that, too. We probably have no idea about the amount of bitchin' and whining they have to put up with. Chris 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 On 30/08/2020 at 17:23, Scimitar said: Surely it can't be secret as the membership is paying for it. (granted I haven't donated for a while but that is for reasons outwith this thread). Apologies but this is where my lawyers hat is on. Britmodeller is not a club in the sense that it is an unincorporated voluntary organisation with a membership and constitution. It is a web site owned by Mike and moderated by him and some volunteers in their spare time between having a life and working. So the term “members” is really a misnomer. “Contributors” or “Posters” might be more applicable. Funding the site is down to Mike as the owner. He is the one in the frame if it makes a loss and it comes out his pocket. When there is a need to upgrade or if funds are thin we have had a whip round and folks give what they can to keep the site going. There is no obligation to pay a cent. A lot of members won’t have but don’t lose their “membership”. That’s good as it doesn’t penalise folks who might be having a hard time. It’s a simple formula and yes to some extent there is an element of trust that Mike and the other mods are not having a night out at the Ritz on the tenner I gave for my gold bar. However I don’t stay awake at nights worrying about it too much. It would require a completely different set up with membership fees paid annually and AGM’s etc with accounts audited and approved etc going in another direction. That would impact on poorer members and given the modest sums involved individually I personally would not like to see that. That’s apart from my inclination that I have bigger things to worry about. However that’s all academic speculation as it’s Mike’s site and his ball. If folks don’t like the game or the rules they don’t have to play. Mike - a plea from the heart. Please don’t use a sentence with Julien and budgie smugglers again. I don’t know about supermodels but it scares the bejayzus out of me 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said: You know I’d buy it.... a model of Julienne in budgie smugglers???? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Yeah! It's Mike's boat and he's the captain. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, JohnT said: a model of Julienne in budgie smugglers???? John I have told you its only Julienne at weekends! I have my eye on a 1/18 F-86 its likely the only supermodel I will ever see 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Julien said: John I have told you its only Julienne at weekends! I have my eye on a 1/18 F-86 its likely the only supermodel I will ever see Aye so you say but I’ve seen the video online Apols flaming autocorrect 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huvut76g7gbbui7 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Mike said: The float is kept securely with two people responsible for making sure that everything is above board, records kept, and that's that. Unfortunately we have not been yet been able to justify spending the donations on: Caribbean Holidays Superfast PCs for the Mod Team Supermodels (nope, not the Airfix type) Let me be clear. I have never suggested any wrong doing. 2 hours ago, Mike said: However, this diatribe about transparency is sounding awfully familiar, and I can guess where it's coming from by both past history and by past and present company kept by those attempting to grind this particular axe. I have no idea what that is about but would state for all to see that I asked what I thought was a straightforward question as an individual. I am not part of any conspiracy ,real or imagined. 2 hours ago, Mike said: Anyway, if anyone isn't happy with the way the site is run, they can do one of two things. Leave and never come back, or refrain from donating and accept the status quo Seems to be a default setting! 2 hours ago, Mike said: Trouble-making is not an option. Perhaps you could explain to me why when I ask what I consider to be a straightforward question, I am then accuse of being a troublemaker. Dozens ,perhaps thousands of people have donated to this site. I am not interested in how much money was raised or how much is in the bank. That is none of my business. By asking the question 'How much does it cost to run the server' it appears that I am being tarred as a trouble maker or part of some conspiracy theory allegedly connected to something from the past which I know nothing about. I am not interested in the legal definition of 'member' or in any of the matters involving ownership. That is immaterial to my question really I am a bit surprised (no..I'm not really) that the thread has turned to a thinly disguised attack on me and wonder why my question cannot be given a straight answer. It is a well known fact that I have disagreed with the moderators over the culling of one of my previous threads. That was a couple of years ago. Trust me,if I had wanted to stir up trouble, I could have done so long before now and probably ended up being banned. That's not my nature though. This question has nothing whatsoever to do with the past. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 32 minutes ago, Scimitar said: I am not interested in the legal definition of 'member' or in any of the matters involving ownership. That is immaterial to my question really Actually that about as wrong as it gets. If you had been a "member" in the legal sense you would have every right to ask the question. You're not and you don't. Simples. On that basis the site owner who pays the bills has a right to refuse to answer. Put it a simpler way. If I offered a service to clients who were impoverished but on the basis that they could if they wanted make a payment if and when they could afford it and then someone started to ask the questions you have asked about what my overheads were they'd be looking for a new lawyer damn quick for being at the kindest - cheeky. That's the best way I can put it. If you cant see why that sort of enquiry generates a less than appreciative reception then fair enough but I'd park it there if it was me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huvut76g7gbbui7 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, JohnT said: Actually that about as wrong as it gets. I asked a simple question. I fully realise that the owner of the site is not obliged to reply. Hardly a state secret is it? 3 minutes ago, JohnT said: f you cant see why that sort of enquiry generates a less than appreciative reception then fair enough but I'd park it there if it was me. I ask a question and get a pretty prevaricating series of replies. Why? An outright 'I'm not telling you' may have shut me up. If I was still in the business of interrogating I might be digging deeper but as it is I can see that I am wasting energy on a lost cause. Strange how much silence there is around though apart from the usual suspects. I had hoped things here had got better..ever the optimist me. I'm not you but I'm going to 'park it' anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Oh dear. I'm not enjoying this thread. It's really gone downhill. I make a donation as and when I can afford it as I assume do most of us. What is the need for maintenance costs to be published? I'm happy with what I get for my meager donations. @Mikeand the mods do a great job in running this site and frankly this type of keyboard aggression could jeopardise their interest in continuing it. It seems to me that it's a simple case of if your not happy just do one. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Scimitar said: I ask a question and get a pretty prevaricating series of replies. Why? An outright 'I'm not telling you' may have shut me up. But there you are, still going on about it. Chris 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I reckon it'd be a good time to lock this thread. The OP's enquiry was made with the best intentions as I saw it & they were well answered & that should have been an end to it. I was surprised it carried on as long as it did. Looking at the direction it has taken I can't see anything useful being gained & potentially see contributors whose input I like & respect being hurt. It is what it is chaps, so lets park it. Please mods. Steve. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertF Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 I agree Stevehnz, but before the mods do lock this because it has sidetracked quite a bit, can I return to the OP's suggestion about deleting obsolete posts in order to slim down the site a bit? Yes, that would take a huge amount of time if the mods would have to do that, not to mention the dilemma of what threads/post to delete and the endless debates such an action would trigger. But how about a general appeal to all forum members to apply some self-censorship post facto? In other words, ask all members to take a good look at all the posts they have written over the years and delete those that have no real added value to threads. After all, there are a lot of posts containing pictures others had posted earlier (so a lot of space consuming redundancy), posts just announcing an intention to follow the WIP, posts just containing friendly/funny exchanges between members etc. All very nice and cosy, but not a real contribution to the site's value as a source of useful information, which I think is its main purpose. If people would be willing to do this, I think it could really make a difference in the site size without any loss of information and it would divide the enormous workload of sifting through the forum amongst all the contributors instead of just the mods. Parafrasing the "you cause, you pay"- slogan: "you post, you delete". Just my two cents Robert (and yes, if that is the way we would all go about in order to keep this site manageable, I would be among the first to delete all my irrelevant posts - including this one 😄) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullbasket Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 7 hours ago, stevehnz said: I reckon it'd be a good time to lock this thread. The OP's enquiry was made with the best intentions as I saw it & they were well answered & that should have been an end to it. I was surprised it carried on as long as it did. Looking at the direction it has taken I can't see anything useful being gained & potentially see contributors whose input I like & respect being hurt. It is what it is chaps, so lets park it. Please mods. Steve. You took the words (and thoughts) right out of my mouth. As thread drifts go ( and I've seen some monumental ones on other sites) this one takes the biscuit. I said a couple of pages ago that it needed putting to bed before it got out of control. If I was the OP, I would be a bit miffed at the way my thread had been hijacked in this way. If you want financial answers, go and start your own thread. As Steve has said, this thread needs locking before it REALLY gets out of control. Just one final thought. If @Mike & the Mechanics are spending my 10/- on trips to the Caribbean, I hope that they are going to quarantine for 14 days on their return . John. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 I agree that maybe this thread has run it's course. Let's all step away and get back to 'sticking silly little bits of plastic together' again* Trevor * (c) and TM Mrs Headroom 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John R Posted September 1, 2020 Author Share Posted September 1, 2020 As the one who started it with the best interests of BM at heart and who said many posts ago, after Mikes comprehensive answer, "From all I have learned from Mike & Co it seems that it is the numbers of users that drives the server requirement and not the amount of content so this thread can probably be closed" . It is time to reiterate that. John 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 I'm happy to close it down, as I'm off to the airport. Caribbean here we come! But back in the real world, I'm probably just going to let in some new members and maybe do a review. Enough of the 🥄 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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