Jump to content

28 SQN (Allegedly) Bristol F2B


Recommended Posts

Really impressive work on that thar Scarff ring Alan - the visual 'weights' of its various sections contrast extremely convincingly with one another. ūüĎŹ

 

I had a quick look into Tim Mason's book on flight testing at Martlesham to see if it would reveal any details on:

2 hours ago, hendie said:

There's also some strange gubbinses atop the wing, under the wing, and even on the tail plane by the looks of things.

 - but alas the section on the aircraft didn't mention any such fittings undergoing tests there.

 

Quick scan of photo captions in the Winsock datafile (Vol.2) though reveals that the upper port wingtip (and presumably tail?) fitting were navigation lamps. An additional water capacity for the supplementary radiator is also mentioned for this version; might this extra capacity be that small tank-like thing up on the middle of the top wing?

 

That wire thing going up and back diagonally from the middle of the wheel axle looks to be the message hook carried by these aircraft for army liason purposes.

 

21 hours ago, hendie said:

Is the fuselage likely to be silver doped?

Looks likely in so far as being described as such in relation to a similar looking scheme in W'sock, as well as interwar painting orders notes at rear, though confirm this independently yourself to be properly satisfied. Grey (dark presumably?) enamel engine/nose colour a candidate (as Dave has mentioned above) already, along with wheels in flight identity colours.

 

I'd recommend you getting a copy of Vol.2 Alan if you can as it has invaluable structure and detail drawings from the original AP,  as well as as detailed rigging diagrams for you to drill even more holes...

2 hours ago, hendie said:

Here's a shot of an anonymous aircrew wearing one.  Oh look, he's eating!  Just look at the size of that piece - must have Tony's veal and ham pie between the doorsteps.

'Flying Officer Donald 'Snakejaws' Pemberton-Jones beats his own personal best time at consuming an F2B radiator in under 90 seconds.'

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Haha 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Really impressive work on that thar Scarff ring Alan - the visual 'weights' of its various sections contrast extremely convincingly with one another. ūüĎŹ

 

Thanks Tony.

 

22 hours ago, TheBaron said:

I'd recommend you getting a copy of Vol.2 Alan if you can as it has invaluable structure and detail drawings from the original AP,  as well as as detailed rigging diagrams for you to drill even more holes...

 

All the copies I've come across in the last week are a bit on the expensive side and I've just spent a wad on materials so I think I'll have to pass on that.  I think I have what I need for the most part now.

 

The book arrived from the UK a day early and was unwrapped and ready to read before it had time to acclimatize. 

 

P9090008.jpg

 

Let's just say that Mr. Ross did not have a promising future as an author.  The book is essentially him expanding on notes from his diary - mostly about long marches, long voyages by ship, and complaining about having to perform guard duties. He jumps from one topic to another then back again, and repeats himself on numerous occasions throughout the book.  There's very little in relation to aircraft though I did find a few nuggets.

I had hoped that since 28 Sqn was formed from 114 Sqn that they may have pilfered some of their aircraft too, but twas not the case.  They were shipped basically out to India, and had to put their aircraft together in the field, so all the F2B's were brand new.

He did mention at one point about horrible green paint rotting the rubber engine mounts but that's about as technical as it got.

There was one photograph of a 28 Sqn F2B, but the book is printed on that hairy paper, and in conjunction with a 1920's photographic, the photo leaves a lot to be desired.  At least I have a serial number to work with, and I know it's a two bladed propeller, and the long exhaust.

 

P9090009.jpg

 

Mr Ross provides an appendix with some serials numbers of 28 Sqn aircraft, though he didn't capture them all.  

 

Anyways, on to the build again. The engine/cowling was glued in position, this time with styrene cement and not the squidgy TET stuff.

 

P9080002.jpg

 

I figured that I had better get a move on with the struts as I've never attempted these before, neither have I attempted the wood effect with oils.  The base coat was Model Master "Wood" - taking a chance that it was sort of wood colored.

 

P9080003.jpg

 

Once dry, out came the oils and I used a smattering of burnt sienna to try and replicate the grain.  I can't say it was overly successful but at this scale I think it's going to pass.

 

P9080004.jpg

 

Struts have now been left for the oil paint to exhaust its stickiness

 

There were a couple of protuberances on top of the nose (for gun sighting?), but they were a bit soft in detail and just wouldn't clean up properly, so off they came.  A few minutes on the lathe with some brass rod and I had some replacements. Not strictly accurate as I would need a milling machine to do the job right, but the detail is much sharper than the plastic, and I'm happy with it considering where I started from.

 

P9090005.jpg

 

I spotted more greeblies to add - the deck at the gunners position has some reinforcement around the opening, and some not very tidy tape immediately aft of the metal reinforcement.  I cut some styrene strip and glued that around the deck.

A simple job, but I think adds a lot to the overall ambiance. Sadly, I think that is about all the greeblies I am going to find on this particular a/c.

 

P9090010.jpg

 

After that I had a bit of a heart stopping moment.  On checking my references, I spotted a section of rigging that Roden hadn't indicated with their usual pimples.  To make matters worse, this particular piece of rigging wasn't just attached to something - it disappeared into the wing surface!

I pondered how I was going to achieve that trick - contemplating drilling two holes then trying to join them up with a chisel - before remembering I had bought a cheap scribing tool from China which came with 3 or 4 different sized scribing bits.

One of them looked promising, so the wing was duly marked up

 

P9090013.jpg

 

A few minutes later I had a nice neat trench along the wind surface

 

P9090015.jpg

 

into which a length or rigging wire will disappear nicely.  Quite pleased with that job I was.

 

P9090014.jpg

 

Killing time and procrastinating yet again, I made up a Lego jig to help me position the undercarriage with some degree of hope that it will not look absolute crap

 

P9080001.jpg

 

then crapped out and went and did something else entirely.

 

Now take a gander at this.... notice anything?

 

P9090006.jpg

 

Both pots claim to be Dark Seagray, both Mr Hobby Aqueous, and both labeled H-75.  Was it just the lids that were wrong?

 

Nope... contents seem remarkably different too.  Wot the heck?

 

VP9090007.jpg

 

I chose the dark one. Who can prove me wrong?

 

P9090017.jpg

 

That paint has now been left to harden up before I'll attempt the masking for the dark greenish stuff

 

and wing sticking on and rigging is not far away I'm afraid.

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 14
Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work hendie - well greeblied! :) 

 

Pleased to hear the scribing chisels work too - I've got those but have yet to use them in anger.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Gribblery suitably positioned and very effective,  Hendie  :clap: :clap:

Smart use of the scriber too :worthy:

 

As for the paints, I only noticed the labels say "gray" in lieu of "grey".... :rofl:

 

Ciao 

  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/9/2020 at 9:46 PM, hendie said:

Let's just say that Mr. Ross did not have a promising future as an author.  The book is essentially him expanding on notes from his diary - mostly about long marches, long voyages by ship, and complaining about having to perform guard duties. He jumps from one topic to another then back again, and repeats himself on numerous occasions throughout the book.

From a critical perspective, large sections of 'militaria' sit in a publishing realm separate to the actual writing of history, a kind of formulaic sub-journalism in which chronology and anecdote substitute for insight and analysis. When you do get personal accounts with the imaginative depth of a Cecil Lewis or a Hugh Popham, it's all the more powerful the way that their individual experiences act as a magnifying lens upon specific periods in time.

 

Sorry to hear that  this one didn't delivery the necessary.

 

A different Mr. Ross: T.E.Lawrence's - yes him - The Mint is by contrast a sharply-observed biographical account of RAF service life in the 1920s - if you haven't had the pleasure already you can read it online here, though for best results get yourself the 1955 Alden Press version so that you can smell the pages...*

On 9/9/2020 at 9:46 PM, hendie said:

Once dry, out came the oils and I used a smattering of burnt sienna to try and replicate the grain.

The grain counters will be down on you like a ton of bricks!

 

(personally I think they look very much the part, as does the further onset of pigmentation. :thumbsup2:)

 

*which have a peculiar odour of damp airmen in cold hangars on February afternoons.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/10/2020 at 3:03 AM, CedB said:

Nice work hendie - well greeblied! :) 

Pleased to hear the scribing chisels work too - I've got those but have yet to use them in anger.

 

Ced the scribing tool was excellent - nice and sharp and easy to control. Moolah well spent.

 

On 9/11/2020 at 2:09 AM, giemme said:

Gribblery suitably positioned and very effective,  Hendie  :clap: :clap:

Smart use of the scriber too :worthy:

As for the paints, I only noticed the labels say "gray" in lieu of "grey".... :rofl:

Ciao 

 

Thanks G.  

 

On 9/11/2020 at 9:30 AM, TheBaron said:

*which have a peculiar odour of damp airmen in cold hangars on February afternoons.

 

:rofl2:

 

Just a short post this time around.

Lots of time was spent drilling ludicrously small holes. Since this will be (would have been**) my first attempt at rigging, I decided to build an aircraft with double wires. How bloody stupid of me.

To help with that, I made a small jig to aid in at least getting the spacing of the twin holes consistent - basically I cut a small notch in a piece of scrap and the drill was placed in the corners of the notch to locate the holes. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

Then I discovered that not only does this blighter have twin wires, but there is a single wire crossing through them. Oh woopy bloody doo.

 

P9090001.jpg

 

There was no way I could drill these holes once the wings are assembled so I just had to trust the molding and assume that Roden have got the strut locations correct in relation to each other, otherwise the criss-crossing wires are going to interfere with each other and it's going to look all skee-wiff.

As (bad) luck would have it, some of the struts are placed right on the hairy edge of the plastic, so I had to reposition the holes slightly.  I guess I'll find out just how bad this is when it comes to actually rigging it.

 

P9100002.jpg

 

Now here's where things go downhill pretty quickly.  Never having built one of these early fliers before I had nothing in the paint store that would do, so ordered some AK WW1 paints - a couple of versions of PC10 and some versions of bleached linen. I even stretched out and order some of their own brand thinners as well. Not particularly cheap when all said and done.

Everything was primed in my usual grey Alclad primer, then it came time to do the PC10. (By this time I had actually built myself up and was looking forward to starting the rigging phase. Well, the paint was a disaster. No matter how I tried I just couldn't get the paint to flow uniformly.

After my first attempt had dried off, I found that a quick wipe with their thinners removed the paint fairly easily

 

P9120004.jpg

 

This is my third attempt at painting the wings - you might be able to see that the paint finish is all blotchy and speckled and this was my best attempt... dammit.

 

P9120005.jpg

 

I had to strip the fuselage back as well and got a bit of collateral damage, but should be reasonably straightforward to repair at this early stage.  The AK paints will be going in the bin I think - a total disaster.

I've since found that Mr Paint do a range of WW1 colors so have ordered them and I'll give it another go when they arrive

 

P9120006.jpg

 

Well, that really put a halt on the proceedings as I can't assemble anything more until I have paint on the airframe.

I then turned my focus to the transfers - I already knew I was going to have to get some custom made for the particular aircraft I am modeling, but when I looked at Roden's transfers more closely I got a bit of a shock.

 

P9120007.jpg

 

None of them are usable.  Ink bleed, fuzzy edges and poor registration. I guess I'll be buying some roundels as well then. :doh:

Can any of you learned associates provide some insight as to which roundels I should actually be obtaining?

The aircraft I'm basing this on was photographed in 1920 - WIki-thingy states that Roundel Type A was used up until late 1929 and shows the roundel as a somewhat muted blue

 

240px-RAF_Type_A_Roundel_WW1.svg.png

 

On dark surfaces there was a 2" white band around the blue.

 

P9090009.jpg

 

I've had a few searches but am really not sure what I should be looking for. Everything I've found appears to have a much more vibrant blue.  Any suggestions from the hive?

 

Until I have sorted out the paint and the decals this bird is on hold, hopefully not for too long.  In the meantime I have started another build - link coming later

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, hendie said:

my first attempt at rigging, I decided to build an aircraft with double wires. How bloody stupid of me.

To help with that, I made a small jig to aid in at least getting the spacing of the twin holes consistent -

'Jiggin'  in the riggin'

Jiggin' in the riggin'....'

 

I'll be interested to see how the Mr.Paint performs.

 

As for confirming the roundels....paging

@Heather Kayor @Brandy?

 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

As for confirming the roundels....paging

:idea:

 

I'm afraid my knowledge doesn’t really kick in until the late 1930s. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

50187799318_c69943425a_c.jpg

49925870097_1c2e72d823_c.jpg
50348019991_12e0e658ca_c.jpg
Odd your experience with the AK pc10 I find them pretty good and have used them successfully on my Triplane, quadruplane, pup and Snark. I spray them neat from the bottle over ultimate primer. My only niggle  is they don’t brush well and need an undercoat of khaki on any brush touch ups.

Edited by Marklo
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, hendie said:

Then I discovered that not only does this blighter have twin wires, but there is a single wire crossing through them. Oh woopy bloody doo.

 

Sounds like an eye of the needle job! I don't envy you Alan. My Gamecock build is stalled for many reasons, one being I'm totally scared of rigging! I reckon you will sort it though.

 

Superb build so far. I love the old Bristol Fighter.

 

Terry

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Good work on a tricky project, Sir.

 

This is not the ideal subject for a first biplane.

 

If you think you are having fun now wait till you have to sit the fuselage on those little struts rising from the lower wing. I have done it twice with their 1/72 kit, and it was an experience both times.

 

Two notes about color. The P.C. 10 went decidedly brown with sun and wear. The roundel paints, particularly blue and white, also did not stand up well to sun.

 

Great that you've chosen a subject from the old Northwest Frontier.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Great work on the fuselage and drilling of rigging holes. Sorry to hear of the paint issues,  that not good.   

Hopefully won't be too long before you're back on this one. 

Chris

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Just the teeensiest of weensiest of a smidgen of an update for you today folks.

 

I shan't ramble on too much as I'm in a bit of back pain.  I had to plant three trees this weekend, then our first load of firewood arrived for the winter so I had to unload and stack about a cord and a half of wood and I'm now feeling the pain.

 

The good news is that my order of MRP paint arrived.  Even gooder news is that it sprays rally nicely

 

P9260007.jpg

 

The bad news is that I was lazy, and sprayed it directly on top of the AK blotchy mess shown previously.  I looked at it for a while and the effect wasn't entirely displeasing - the MRP even out the blotchiness and it gave a reasonably convincing weathered appearance.

However, since only the upper wing was coated with the AK as a base, I didn't want to risk spraying the rest of the aircraft just in case it all went south.

I tried the AK thinner as a removal agent, but it didn't touch the MRP finish, though I found that liberal application of Mr Hobby Aqueous thinners did a nice job of removing both the MRP finish, and the Alclad primer - with no damage to the plastic of to previously glued parts. (Must file that away for future use)

 

P9290002.jpg

 

some time later....

 

P9290003.jpg

 

As previously noted, the Roden decals are all but unusable due to color bleeding and really poor registration.  @Brandy kindly pointed me in the direction of a set of decals, but when I looked at the total cost I baulked. - it was almost the same price as the kit.

In desperation I searched high and low, and smack dab in the middle was ebay.  Say what you like about it but it does come up trumps sometimes. Anyhoos, I found a set of Montex masks designed for the Roden kit for less than $4. Worth a shot says I.

Well, I wasn't that impressed with the masks when they arrived. All of them appear to have undergone some shrinkage and it's hard to tell, but it looks like there are some areas where the mask hasn't been cut through successfully. It's not the sellers fault and I'm going to give them a try anyway.

 

PA050015.jpg

 

I found a blue in my paint store that appears a good match for the 1920 Roundel, along with a Red that's not far away. If all else fails, I can fall back on Ian's suggestion, though I 'd like to try painting the roundels first - something I've never attempted before.

 

In the meantime though, the display case for Pegasus has arrived, so this build is put to the side for a few days and I'm headed over to the train station.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been a little while since I got to this build.  I did get some work done today though not much.

 

I had tidied up the wings after the bodged AK spray job and sprayed white in preparation for painting the roundels. Amazingly in my paint stores I had colors that matched the 1920's roundel colors quite accurately. 

However, when it came to applying the Montex masks it all went pear shaped.  The masks were useless. They appear to have shrunk since being cut and there was no way I could get the sections of the masks to align properly. 

 

PA080005.jpg

 

I have now ordered the Pheon decals as per @brandy's suggestion.

Since I cannot now paint the roundels there was nothing stopping me from applying the doped linen to the underside of the wings

 

PA110021.jpg

 

I also gave the fuselage a coat of PC10

 

PA110022.jpg

 

I have to admit to being impressed with the MRP paint. It sprays very nicely indeed.

 

PA110020.jpg

 

There! Told you there wasn't much of an update didn't I?

 

Gloss coat next methinks though it may be a little while before I get to this again - The Audax is beckoning as is the train

 

 

 

 

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Your fuselage looks stunning with its war paint on

 

  Stay safe         Roger

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear about the mask issue, but going by reputation I'm sure you'll have no problems with Rowan's decals.

She's looking excellent with some colour on, too!

 

Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

As the boys say here, (paraphrasing for quickness) she is looking very well in PC thingy H

 

And what a bugger about the masks, maybe you need a Ced type cutter

 

(I would probably use my DSPIAE but my version isnt as accurate as Tommo's with a built in scale size checker, but wow, does it cut out rings in plastic)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...