Beaufighter 1f - 1940 TLS photo reference request

[Rabbit Leader]

Thanks Tony, there’s a few photos there I haven’t come across, so thanks for that.

Cheers.. Dave 

[ClaudioN]

7 hours ago, tonyot said:

T3317;

Very interesting photo, particularly as the aircraft tail that shows under the starboard wing appears to be Spanish, possibly a Fiat CR.32.

Considering the state of the props, I might guess the Beau was raised after belly-landing somewhere.

T3317 is usually reported to be XK-? 272 Sqn. CO's aircraft: is it this?

[AWFK10]

Possibly photographed at Barajas? There's a CR 32 in the background of one of the B-26 photos here with a rather crudely applied fuselage number much like the one in the picture, and the text says that the B-26 was sent to Barajas "along with other interned planes".

[gingerbob]

Hey, I think you're on the right trail!

http://incidentessgm.blogspot.com/search/label/Bristol Beaufighter

[tonyot]

3 hours ago, ClaudioN said:

Very interesting photo, particularly as the aircraft tail that shows under the starboard wing appears to be Spanish, possibly a Fiat CR.32.

Considering the state of the props, I might guess the Beau was raised after belly-landing somewhere.

T3317 is usually reported to be XK-? 272 Sqn. CO's aircraft: is it this?

That is if the serial is correct Claudio,.....that is the one attached to the photo,..... but who knows? It does look like 272 Sqn as the codes are small,.....but is that a ? behind the roundel? It doesn`t look lke one to me,... but it is very hard to tell.. It looks like it has belly landed in Spain to me, either during the delivery flight or during ops over the Med,..... but,....although the Beau`s from Malta did raid Sardinia,... it is probably a similar distance to fly back to Malta than it is to fly on to Spain or Palma? 

EDIT,.... It appears the serial is correct mate;

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/238882

Beaufighter T3317 (272 Sqn) aircraft force landed in Jerez Spain. 25 May 1941 during its ferry flight from RAF Portreath to Gibraltar.
They must have been released relatively quickly as S/Ldr. Fletcher, a Canadian, was in action again on 28th July 1941, when as CO of 272 Squadron he led an attack on Borizo airfield in Sicily.
Crew:
S/Ldr A W Fletcher: interned.
Sgt G Sproates: interned.

Sgt. Gallimore: interned
Sgt. C A Ream: interned.

 

HOWEVER;

There is a well known photo of T3317 at Luqa, Malta too!! I doubt that the Spaniards repaired it and sent the crew on their way with it,..... although the crew were released early if the above is correct?

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by tonyot

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

To throw some doubt into the situation. Firstly,

http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=T3317

 

Delivery Logs,  which given 21 June 1947 is an administrative SOC date, suggest T3307 or T3319 as candidates, rather than T3317.
T3307 33 MU 27 April 1941, 272 Sqn 3 May 1941, SOC 21 June 1947.
T3317 33 MU 13 May 1941, 272 Sqn 17 May 1941, Middle East May 1941, Malta July 1941, Middle East 18 August 1941, SOC 8 December 1941.
T3318 33 MU 12 May 1941, 272 Sqn 15 May 1941, Middle East May 1941, SOC 19 July 1941.
T3319 33 MU 13 May 1941, 272 Sqn 21 May 1941, SOC 21 June 1947.

272 squadron had 5 Beaufighters lost or damaged on 6 December 1941 and 1 more on the 7th.  One reported shot down on the 6th was T3246, SOC on the 6th or 8th.

S/L. Andrew William Fletcher was on an operation out of Malta on 28 July 1941 (Malta: The Hurricane years)

 

272 Sqn were given T3270, T3271, T3290 to T3297, T3299 to T3306 in April 1941, T3307 to T3310, T3312 to T3319 in May 1941.  Not all left Britain.

[ClaudioN]

Tony,

recently, you posted this photo in a Beaufighter thread:

It seems to be showing the same aircraft (bent propellers, spinnerless port hub).

Perhaps you can read the serial on the original, I can't, but I may trust it is T3317.

Curiously, XK-? has the question mark painted further to the back, more or less like leaving the space for an obliterated individual letter closer to the roundel.

 

Of interest for a model, the upper surface camouflage colours extend below the wing and the demarcation line to the Sky undersurface colour is a straight line.

Damage seems to be quite minor, apart from the bent propellers. Maybe it was repaired and flown out as soon as possible?

[ClaudioN]

11 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Hey, I think you're on the right trail!

http://incidentessgm.blogspot.com/search/label/Bristol Beaufighter

Thank you for the very interesting link!

Based on delivery logs posted by Geoffrey Sinclair and the photo of XK-? at Malta, it would seem that both the pilots and the aircraft were released in a very short time.

[tonyot]

7 hours ago, ClaudioN said:

Tony,

recently, you posted this photo in a Beaufighter thread:

It seems to be showing the same aircraft (bent propellers, spinnerless port hub).

Perhaps you can read the serial on the original, I can't, but I may trust it is T3317.

Curiously, XK-? has the question mark painted further to the back, more or less like leaving the space for an obliterated individual letter closer to the roundel.

 

Of interest for a model, the upper surface camouflage colours extend below the wing and the demarcation line to the Sky undersurface colour is a straight line.

Damage seems to be quite minor, apart from the bent propellers. Maybe it was repaired and flown out as soon as possible?

You are of course correct Claudio,.....I would also put money on it being the same aircraft,...... in which case I don`t think that it is T3317,.... as there are a couple of photos of T3317 in Malta with the codes XK-? Query,...... with the ? Query repeated on the tip of the nose,.....such a shame I just cannot read the serial above.

To be fair,.. in this case I was just trying to help Dave re the colour demarcations etc. 

Y

[tonyot]

8 hours ago, Geoffrey Sinclair said:

To throw some doubt into the situation. Firstly,

http://www.rafcommands.com/database/serials/details.php?uniq=T3317

 

Delivery Logs,  which given 21 June 1947 is an administrative SOC date, suggest T3307 or T3319 as candidates, rather than T3317.
T3307 33 MU 27 April 1941, 272 Sqn 3 May 1941, SOC 21 June 1947.
T3317 33 MU 13 May 1941, 272 Sqn 17 May 1941, Middle East May 1941, Malta July 1941, Middle East 18 August 1941, SOC 8 December 1941.
T3318 33 MU 12 May 1941, 272 Sqn 15 May 1941, Middle East May 1941, SOC 19 July 1941.
T3319 33 MU 13 May 1941, 272 Sqn 21 May 1941, SOC 21 June 1947.

272 squadron had 5 Beaufighters lost or damaged on 6 December 1941 and 1 more on the 7th.  One reported shot down on the 6th was T3246, SOC on the 6th or 8th.

S/L. Andrew William Fletcher was on an operation out of Malta on 28 July 1941 (Malta: The Hurricane years)

 

272 Sqn were given T3270, T3271, T3290 to T3297, T3299 to T3306 in April 1941, T3307 to T3310, T3312 to T3319 in May 1941.  Not all left Britain.

Bang on,... brilliant info.

[ClaudioN]

16 hours ago, tonyot said:

I would also put money on it being the same aircraft,...... in which case I don`t think that it is T3317,....

There is an AIR81 record saying it is T3317, but the Delivery Log posted by Geoffrey Sinclair contradicts this.

I'm with you on this, the first part of the serial might read T32... and a T32xx serial seems possible:

On 9/13/2020 at 1:18 PM, Geoffrey Sinclair said:

272 Sqn were given T3270, T3271, T3290 to T3297, T3299 to T3306 in April 1941, T3307 to T3310, T3312 to T3319 in May 1941.  Not all left Britain.

 

Could we think that the pattern of upper/lower colour demarcation may help distinguish TLS camouflage from TSS camouflage? But perhaps this is a question for the other thread.

Edited September 14, 2020 by ClaudioN