Beaufighter 1f - 1940 TLS photo reference request

[Rabbit Leader]

Greetings all, 

Just wondering if anyone is aware of additional photographs of 1940 / Battle of Britain era Beaufighters painted in the Temperate Land Scheme colours? Most publications and online resources just feature 25 Squadron’s R2069 ‘ZK’ with no individual letter, however I cannot seem to find any other photographs to confirm the various artist profiles and AM decal sheets that have been produced thus far. I have quite a few Beaufighter references myself, although am coming up quite short in this particular area. 
 

Any assistance will be gratefully appreciated. 
Cheers and thanks.. Dave 
 

 

[Ray_W]

Like this:

 

Ray

 

[Rabbit Leader]

Thanks Ray, actually I got the serial wrong, it’s R2059 as mentioned in that caption - not R2069 as I wrote. This is the image I was talking about, it seems to be the only one readily available and I was wondering if there are others out there. 
Cheers.. Dave 

[Ray_W]

Hi Dave,

Yes I share your position on this. Seems you're across all the usual references. The confusion over R2059 and R2069 and with and without the individual letter. My next step, if nobody comes up with anything, would be to go the operational squadron photos. Maybe even the Blenheims. You might spot something in the background.

Ray

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

g if anyone is aware of additional photographs of 1940 / Battle of Britain era Beaufighters painted in the Temperate Land Scheme colours

 

Screen grab.  There was a thread on this, as the date was given a approximately.

I'll see if I can find the Beaufighter thread later.

[Rabbit Leader]

Thanks Troy, that’s quite interesting. The Blenheim alongside looks to be from No. 600 Squadron, so that Beaufighter could be linked to that unit. 
Cheers mate.. Dave 

[PhantomBigStu]

useful thread given I've planned a TLS beau and yet to pick a serial and code combo 

Edited August 18, 2020 by PhantomBigStu

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

that’s quite interesting. The Blenheim alongside looks to be from No. 600 Squadron, so that Beaufighter could be linked to that unit. 

Found it

Indeed, 600 sq, as is posted.... and you posted on that thread as well.... i know, it was 5 years ago...

Beaufighter likely to be this

"The first Beaufighter was delivered to RAF Tangmere for trials with the Fighter Interception Unit on 12 August 1940,"

 

I'm going have a look at Air Britain in mo for serials...

EDIT - There are a few listed as going to FIU,  the earliest

R2059 - SD Flt/FIU/SD Flt/51 OTU

 

R2066 FIU/SD Flt/RAE

 

Some repeated info below, but in case of quoting later.

 

EDIT 2

http://www.bbm.org.uk/airmen/Ashfield.htm

 

"In the early hours of 23rd July Ashfield was captain of an AI-equipped Blenheim, which shot a Do17 of 2/KG3 down into the sea off the Sussex coast. The other members of the Blenheim crew were Sgt. RH Leyland, Radar Operator, and P/O GE Morris, Observer. It was the FIU's first successful interception leading to the destruction of an enemy aircraft at night.

Ashfield escaped unhurt when he made a forced-landing in Beaufighter R2059 at Tangmere on 9th September 1940 after his cockpit roof flew off during a night patrol and he collided with an unlit truck on landing. For his work at FIU Ashfield was awarded the AFC (gazetted 17th March 1941)."

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Troy Smith
additions

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

actually I got the serial wrong, it’s R2059 as mentioned in that caption - not R2069 as I wrote.

I suspect caption is wrong, and that IS R2069

Air Britain

R2059 - SD Flt/FIU/SD Flt/51 OTU

R2069 - 26/68/256/51 OTU

 

I maybe a leap of faith, but the above screen grab maybe R2059,  as it's the earliest listed as SD Flt/FIU.  Anyone know more

I'll put @Geoffrey Sinclair  in case he has anything on file, 

 

Note, the photo above is likely to be dateable, as  we have 401 Sq Hurricanes and 600 Sq Blenheims, with a SD Flt/FIU Beaufighter.

 

from Air Britain

--------------------------------

11 Beaufighter prototypes and early production aircraft Delivered between April and Dec 1940

R2052 - R2062

 

R2059 - SD Flt/FIU/SD Flt/51 OTU

----------------------------------

and from the rest of the R**** that maybe relevant

 

R2066 FIU/SD Flt/RAE

 

also

R2078 AAEE/FIU

R2125 RAE/FIU/RAE

R2146 FIU/604/219/25/239/515

R2186 FIU

R2189 FIU/219/51 OTU

R2195 FIU SD FLT/FIU

R2201 FIU/51 OTU

 

 

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

The Blenheim alongside looks to be from No. 600 Squadron, so that Beaufighter could be linked to that unit. 

blinkin' rabbit holes....

 

One point, having spent the last hours blatting around the internet, going back to the not so clear screen grab

BQ was the code for 600 Sq

ZQ was the codes for the Fighter Interception Unit, that the first AI Beaufighters went to.  (this from trying to find the serial Blenhiem flown by Ashfield mentioned above,  which is L6836 BTW.

see

 

[Rabbit Leader]

Appreciate all your effort Troy. It all helps paint a picture (well model)! 
Cheers.. Dave 

[Ray_W]

16 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

I suspect caption is wrong, and that IS R2069

Yes I agree. Depends on who has used the photo. Most references I have seen have called it R2069. For example by Andrew Thomas in Osprey's Beaufighter Aces of World War 2.  "One of the first Beaufighter I's delivered to an operational squadron was R2069, which went to No 25 Sqn at Debden."  The picture included is the usual image but is clearer and also not cropped so you see the lovely line-up of Blenheims in the background. You can see the full image here:

 

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Beaufighter/CF-early/images/Beaufighter-MkI-RAF-25Sqn-ZK-R2069-FlgOff-Mike-Herrick-Debden-1940-01.jpg

 

An original would be brilliant so you could make out the serial. You often see the opposite crop with the Beaufighter cut out and the Blenheims and the guy with the chocks enlarged. Unfortunately they never show enough of the Beaufighter tail.

I think in the end it will be speculative in terms of codes and possibly scheme with the only factual opportunity being to use the R2069 image like Heather Kay's very neat rendition:

 

 

I am not convinced of the individual "A" or "H" being based on actual images. I would love to be convinced otherwise. Maybe a good guess/speculation, a repeated artist's rendition or from operational record although my feeling is that their use could easily slip out of BoB period and TLS scheme.

 

The alternative is no squadron codes but use a good guess on the serial numbers from info like Troy's and that nice photo of the uncoded Beaufighter at the back of the Hurricanes.

 

Irrespective a very interesting and unusual scheme for a Beaufighter.

 

Ray

 

[gingerbob]

1 hour ago, Ray_W said:

and that nice photo of the uncoded Beaufighter at the back of the Hurricanes.

 

There are actually two, are there not?  (One behind (by line of sight) the other.)

 

Ray, that uncropped version (of the "coded" Beau) IS very nice!

 

bob

[Rabbit Leader]

Guys, 

I’m having a few issues with Flickr on my new iPad, however looking at this clearer photo and using the iPads great zoom features, I clearly make this out as R2069. I’m starting to warm to this particular aircraft and might aim to model this one. I’ve also come across the fact that the first fifty production Beaufighters were only cannon armed, so the usual six wing .303 MG’s were not fitted to this initial batch. My maths and serial calculations would make R2101 as the last of this fifty, which is the very famous 604 Squadron NG:R “Cats Eyes” Cunningham’s usual kite. I know Revells new tool 1f has these decals, so it would appear that the wing MG’s should also be filled in? Now what’s with those square apertured engine intakes?.. quite unlike what’s provided in any kit. 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Ray_W]

46 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Now what’s with those square apertured engine intakes?

Early square version.

 

 

 

Ray

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Ray_W
Smaller Image

[Mark Postlethwaite]

We have a couple of high res images of this Beaufighter in the ww2images.com library and it's definitely R2069.  We also have R2081 (uncoded).

[Ray_W]

Dave, 

What canopy do they provide in the Revell kit? The required early heavily framed version like in the above image post #15? 

Ray

[Ray_W]

5 minutes ago, Mark Postlethwaite said:

We have a couple of high res images of this Beaufighter in the ww2images.com library and it's definitely R2069.  We also have R2081 (uncoded).

Thanks Mark, that's useful. That side on image of R2069, now confirmed, is excellent. 

 

Link here:

 

https://www.wingleader.co.uk/ww2images?limit=20&page=16&searchType=any&searchString=beaufighter

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

[Rabbit Leader]

40 minutes ago, Mark Postlethwaite said:

We have a couple of high res images of this Beaufighter in the ww2images.com library and it's definitely R2069.  We also have R2081 (uncoded).

Much appreciated Mark. That side view also confirms where the undersurface demarcation appears under the wing trailing edge. Excellent stuff. 
Cheers.. Dave 

[Rabbit Leader]

38 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

Dave, 

What canopy do they provide in the Revell kit? The required early heavily framed version like in the above image post #15? 

Ray

Ray, 

Just going by Revell’s website image, it appears they have provided the later type canopy which lacks the additional side framing. Easily fixed I suppose? 
Cheers.. Dave 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

21 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

I suspect caption is wrong, and that IS R2069

Air Britain

R2059 - SD Flt/FIU/SD Flt/51 OTU

R2069 - 26/68/256/51 OTU

Note, the photo above is likely to be dateable, as  we have 401 Sq Hurricanes and 600 Sq Blenheims, with a SD Flt/FIU Beaufighter.

 

R2052 - R2062

R2059 - SD Flt/FIU/SD Flt/51 OTU

R2066 FIU/SD Flt/RAE

R2078 AAEE/FIU

R2125 RAE/FIU/RAE

R2146 FIU/604/219/25/239/515

R2186 FIU

R2189 FIU/219/51 OTU

R2195 FIU SD FLT/FIU

R2201 FIU/51 OTU

The R serials seem to have normally been delivered in serial number order.  And a reminder the following are taken from hand written documents that have been microfilmed then scanned, it can be hard to be totally sure of some numbers.

R2059, SD Flt 31 July 1940, FIU 1 September, Bristol 4MUB? 24 September, 30 MU 16 January 1941

R2066, 19 MU 8 August 1940, Tangmere AMDP 12 August, SD flt Christchurch 26 August, Farnborough AMDP 16 October

R2069, 33 MU 13 August 1940, 25 Sqn 8 September, 43 Group DA 2 March 1941, 25 Sqn 19 May 1941

R2078, 19 MU 30 August 1940, 32 MU 3 September, 19 MU 6 September, AAEE AMDP 8 September, FIU 12 September, 43 Group DA 16 February 1941

R2125 19 MU (no date) AMDP 16 November 1940

R2146 18 MU 8 December 1940, FIU 18 December 1940, 43 Group DA 8 February 1941, FIU 6 March, 43 Group DA 12 May, FIU 16 May, 34 Group DA 25 August, FIU no date, 604 Sqn 23 October.

R2186 19 MU 2 December 1940,  FIU 23 December, SOC 11 January 1941?

R2189 19 MU 13 December 1940, FTU (not FIU) Ford 12 February 1941, 43 Group DA 20 February 1941, 219 Sqn 19 March 1941,

R2195 32 MU 11 December 1940, 19 MU 18? December, FIU 23 December, SD flt Christchurch 1 February 1941, FIU 17 February, 43 Group DA 3 March, FIU 21 March, SDF 27 May , 43 Group DA 27 August, SD flt (no date) TFU (no date)

R2201 32 MU 23 December 1940, 19 U 2 January 1941, FTU Ford 14 February, 43 Group deposit account 21 February, FIU 11 May 1941

[PhantomBigStu]

On a related note, anyone got a profile of the top view? Got the side views but need to know the camo pattern for the wings

[Rabbit Leader]

2 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

On a related note, anyone got a profile of the top view? Got the side views but need to know the camo pattern for the wings

I would have thought it would look something like this. See if this image matches your side views Stu. 
Cheers.. Dave 

[PhantomBigStu]

4 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

I would have thought it would look something like this. See if this image matches your side views Stu. 
Cheers.. Dave 

Indeed it does, thanks very much Dave

[tonyot]

I know that some of these are Coastal Beau`s,..... but if any of these pics that I have on file are of use,.... then I hope they help mate;

 

R2054, Mk.If prototype, black and white undersides;

 

Mk.If, R2153, PN-W, 252 Sqn,.... with fighter Blenheim behind it;

 

PN-X, looks like TLS scheme, especially when compared to the Hudson in front;

 

T3317;

 

Mk.If, X7642;

 

Also,.... many of the Mk.If`s sent to the RAAF wore TLS too,..... before camo switched to TLS;

 

I do hope that these help,.... even with demarcations etc,

Good luck mate,

                         Tony