Short Seamew - is it real?

[Ed Russell]

A friend is building the Magna Seamew and had a question for me which I haven't been able to help with so far. The boxtop has a scheme which purports to be a Seamew in squadron service and seems convincingly attributed. Surely it is real?

There are other identical profiles on the internet and a somewhat fanciful painting

Are all of these profiles derived from each other or is there a photo?

[alt-92]

If it's 700 NAS then yes, but only for two aircraft during testing.

[Ed Russell]

37 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

If it's 700 NAS then yes, but only for two aircraft during testing.

Do you have a picture?

[EwenS]

A quote from a test pilot I came across recently about the Seamew just about sums it up.

 

”Access to the cockpit is difficult. It should be made impossible.”

 

XE179 507/FD is one of the aircraft with 700 Sqn.

[Ed Russell]

28 minutes ago, EwenS said:

XE179 507/FD is one of the aircraft with 700 Sqn.

Yes, that's what it says on the Magna box and all the profiles which post-date it.

Short Seamew AS.1 XE179 507/FD of 700 Sqn based at RNAS Ford in 1958.

It would be nice to have a picture to back it up.

 

[Ed Russell]

28 minutes ago, EwenS said:

Access to the cockpit is difficult. It should be made impossible

I wish I had a dollar for every aircraft that quote has been attributed to - must be in the hundreds by now!

[71chally]

'The Squadrons of the Fleet Air Air Arm' book lists Seamew XE179 as 507/FD, Nov 56 - Feb 57.  However I've never seen a photograph of a Seamew in squadron codes/markings.

[roginoz]

We NEED one in 1/48 !!

 

Long overdue !

[Graham Boak]

From Fleet Air Arm Fixed Wing Aircraft since 1946, XE179 was built as an MR.2 for RAF Coastal Command, converted to an AS.1 before delivery, and was the only Seamew to be issued to a service squadron.  Several were used by C Sq of the A&AEE ( the FAA's service test flying unit) and others flown by Shorts as test or demonstration aircraft.  A small number reached Lossiemouth AHU therefore being available, but the aircraft was finally cancelled before any were issued.

 

I don't know about "we" but I'd like an injection-moulded 1/72 one - and I exclude Magma.  I remember thinking that a pair, one FAA and one Coastal, would look good on the shelf, but I was a lot younger then.

[Duncan B]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

From Fleet Air Arm Fixed Wing Aircraft since 1946, XE179 was built as an MR.2 for RAF Coastal Command, converted to an AS.1 before delivery, and was the only Seamew to be issued to a service squadron.  Several were used by C Sq of the A&AEE ( the FAA's service test flying unit) and others flown by Shorts as test or demonstration aircraft.  A small number reached Lossiemouth AHU therefore being available, but the aircraft was finally cancelled before any were issued.

 

I have seen a couple of photos of them, taken at Lossie by a former member here, awaiting their day with the gas axe. They were in remarkably good condition but I guess that's because they'd only flown a few hours.

 

Duncan B 

[Exkiwiforces]

The RNZAF almost brought gaggle of Seamew’s, but dropped them as soon as the British did. There was some talk that they may’ve been for the TAF SQN’s as there were issues the TAF Mustangs at the time. Before WW2 the TAF SQN’s were General Recon SQN’s or in other words Maritime Surveillance in and around NZ waters. As such the Seamew were seen as a cheap alternative at providing some sort of Maritime Surveillance of NZ inshore water and approaches.

[Seahawk]

14 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

A friend is building the Magna Seamew and had a question for me which I haven't been able to help with so far. The boxtop has a scheme which purports to be a Seamew in squadron service and seems convincingly attributed. Surely it is real?

 

Think very carefully before being rude about the instructions for the Magna Seamew lest a @Martian tentacle suddenly grab you by the throat.  Magna kits are not always quite as bad as is reported (where else am I going to get a Sturgeon or Henley from?) but the instructions and marking options were undeniably one of the best things about them.

[Graham Boak]

Not a lot wrong with their choice of subjects - though I do remember a vacform Henley which I was rather tempted by.

[Mr T]

I would second Seahawks reply. Magna kits are not always as bad as people think, well not all of them. I have built seven of them so far and still have a few to do. By and large the colour schemes are about the most useful part of the instruction sheet. 

[Ed Russell]

@Seahawk My colleague is not deterred by the relatively primitive nature of the kit or its instructions - he is an aficionado of Mach2 and Contrail. I shall report back to him  that the scheme is rather like the red-orange Hurricane. On the balance of probabilities it did exist but there are no photos. It may be that someone described it over the phone to Magna and they made a creditable effort of it. Or it may be all wrong in terms of letter and numeral size, element positioning,  fittings, colour demarcation etc.

 

@Duncan B  Yes, I have seen those pictures (and dozens of other Seamew pictures) and they do look like new. Perhaps a better scheme for the kit  if you are a  research purist.

 

@Graham Boak   There is a large range of obscure types only available as relatively primitive resin and vacform - I imagine some of them will end up as good injection kits sometime before 2050!

 

@Exkiwiforces   When the injection kit comes out I will do one in RNZAF dazzle camouflage, like  the Hurricane mentioned in this thread.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234972519-hurricane-mki-p2992-of-527-radar-calibration-sqn-red/

 

Thanks for everyone's help on this - to me, this sort of research and fact checking is one of the most interesting parts of modelling.

[Martian]

20 minutes ago, Seahawk said:

Think very carefully before being rude about the instructions for the Magna Seamew lest a @Martian tentacle suddenly grab you by the throat.  Magna kits are not always quite as bad as is reported (where else am I going to get a Sturgeon or Henley from?) but the instructions and marking options were undeniably one of the best things about them.

Not to worry Seahawk, there is a tentacle on its way to a throat near @Ed Russell as I type these words. I supplied the research for this kit and would love to see a 1/48 example.

 

Martian 👽

[Seahawk]

11 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

 though I do remember a vacform Henley which I was rather tempted by.

That would be the Formaplane kit.  Apparently it's still in my stash somewhere.  I judged the Magna kit less work: construction only stalled at the prospect of masking that fiendish canopy. 

 

Now back to Seamews: I'm pretty sure I've seen a photo of XE179 507/FD somewhere but I apparently haven't kept a record of where.  Since I can't produce it you are entitled to be sceptical.

[Ed Russell]

20 minutes ago, Martian said:

I supplied the research for this kit

If you mean you supplied the data for the scheme in question then that does add credibility to it.

[Mike]

Reminds me a bit of the Bréguet 1050 Alizé.  Not much, but a bit We deserve new 1:48 of both if I'm honest... and greedy

[Martian]

22 minutes ago, Ed Russell said:

If you mean you supplied the data for the scheme in question then that does add credibility to it.

Amongst other details, yes I did supply details of the scheme.

 

Martian 👽

[Nachtwulf]

6 hours ago, Mike said:

Reminds me a bit of the Bréguet 1050 Alizé.  Not much, but a bit We deserve new 1:48 of both if I'm honest... and greedy

Same here. Although it does look like someone used it as a boomark.

[Work In Progress]

21 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

I wish I had a dollar for every aircraft that quote has been attributed to - must be in the hundreds by now!

And it actually was the Blackburn Botha

[Truro Model Builder]

20 hours ago, Exkiwiforces said:

The RNZAF almost brought gaggle of Seamew’s, but dropped them as soon as the British did. There was some talk that they may’ve been for the TAF SQN’s as there were issues the TAF Mustangs at the time. Before WW2 the TAF SQN’s were General Recon SQN’s or in other words Maritime Surveillance in and around NZ waters. As such the Seamew were seen as a cheap alternative at providing some sort of Maritime Surveillance of NZ inshore water and approaches.

 

Had it gone ahead I would love to have seen the reactions of the Mustang pilots when the first Seamew arrived to replace their P-51s...

 

[Seahawk]

11 hours ago, Mike said:

Reminds me a bit of the Bréguet 1050 Alizé.  Not much, but a bit  

Far too flattering.  It reminds me of the Kyushu Q1Y1 Lorna: a minimalist platform to tote a radar and a couple of depth charges around with no concessions to fripperies like retractable undercarriages - or looks. 

[71chally]

10 hours ago, Martian said:

Amongst other details, yes I did supply details of the scheme.

 

Martian 👽

Did it come from a photo of the aircraft?

 

The other standout Seamew was XE175 that got the all over dark sea grey scheme and small roundels that RAF Coastal Command was just adopting at the time.

 

This is a nice shot which neatly compares the Royal Navy AS.1 to the RAF MR.2 scheme.  The nearest and furthest Seamews are in the then standard RAF Medium Sea Grey over white and the two middle ones in the standard RN Extra Dark Sea Grey over Sky scheme,

 

 

 

As for the often miss-quoated "Access to the cockpit is difficult. It should be made impossible", It has been applied to some many types that it's hard to pin down to the who first said and for what aircraft, and most crucially, recorded it by writing it down.

The Botha has been debunked by someone who has read through the test-reports.

It does seem most likely attached to the Wyvern (which very early on gained a nasty reputation) where one test-pilot had noted that 'another' naval test-pilot pilot that had preceded him had said that in a report.  Winkle Brown was one of the naval test-pilots of the Wyvern and I seem to recall from one of the books that he attributes that quote to himself.  He also flew the Botha, but he doesn't seem to relate the line to that type.

 

I've certainly never heard it applied to the Seamew.

But, it is a great line!