Elusive Polished Aluminium - Tamiya TS-83 vs Al-Clad Polished Alui vs Al-Clad Hi-Shine Polished Alui vs Al-Clad Chrome

[Microbike]

Hello All

 

I am building an Airfix B-17G with a polished aluminium finish. Examining period photos (not restored aircraft) it would appear that the "bare metal" B-17's were certainly reflective and in many photos you can see the reflection of the aircrew or mechanics on the fuselage or under the wings

 

Therefore I am looking to create a reflective surface and have tried to avoid the air frame looking like it was painted silver.

 

Using the cowlings I have experimented with four polished aluminium paints which produce different results

 

All four cowlings were painted with Tamiya TS-14 Gloss Black and left to cure for two weeks so that there is no reaction between the black base coat and the polished aluminium paint

 

First up is Tamiya TS-83 which produces a good level of reflection but is not too "bright" - TS-83 is sold as a polished aluminium finish and is a very robust paint which can be masked and not affected by decal solution (so far anyway)

 

First up Tamiya TS-83

 

Next up is AL-Clad Polished Aluminium

 

Third in the test is Al-Clad Hi-Shine Polished Aluminium

 

Fourth  Al-Clad Chrome

 

And finally all four cowlings next to each other

From Left to Right: Tamiya TS-83 / Al-Clad Polished Aluminium / Al-Clad Hi-Shine Polished Aluminium/ and /Al-Clad Chrome

 

 

Therefore based on the above tests which do you think presents the most realistic version of Polished Aluminium?

 

[Seawinder]

I'd go with the Alclad Polished Aluminum/Aluminium. I think the Chrome is too shiny, and based on experience, it's pretty fragile. The Polishied Alum... is also somewhat fragile, though less so.

[Microbike]

54 minutes ago, Seawinder said:

I'd go with the Alclad Polished Aluminum/Aluminium. I think the Chrome is too shiny, and based on experience, it's pretty fragile. The Polishied Alum... is also somewhat fragile, though less so.

Hi Sidewinder 

yes Al-Clad does tend to be “fragile” - what did you think of the TS-83 it’s not quite as “shiny” and is more robust than Al-Clad

 

the chrome is a bit too bright - would work for a restored B17 or an airliner 

[dogsbody]

Personally, I like the Tamiya best. To my old eye, it looks more natural metal duralumin. The others are a bit too mirror-like.

 

Again, that's to my eye.

 

 

 

Chris

[Seawinder]

38 minutes ago, Microbike said:

Hi Sidewinder 

yes Al-Clad does tend to be “fragile” - what did you think of the TS-83 it’s not quite as “shiny” and is more robust than Al-Clad

 

the chrome is a bit too bright - would work for a restored B17 or an airliner 

Sidewinder? Not me

I think the TS-83 looks okay too. It really depends on what you want for your model. Frankly, if it were I, I'd start with Alclad regular Aluminum or the Tamiya lacquer (which I haven't ever used) and then mist some Alclad Polished Aluminum over it if I wanted more shine.

[Microbike]

2 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Personally, I like the Tamiya best. To my old eye, it looks more natural metal duralumin. The others are a bit too mirror-like.

 

Again, that's to my eye.

 

 

 

Chris

Hi Chris

yes I agree I also am inclined towards the Tamiya too as it’s more robust for adding shade etc 

 

Al-Clad are really great for shine but tend to be less robust in terms of weathering, decals or changing the shade of various panels 

 

Al-Clad Chrome is awesome for chrome as I will certainly use it on my Motorcycle kits - I was surprised how close to Chrime it looked 

 

Andrew 

[Microbike]

1 hour ago, Seawinder said:

Sidewinder? Not me

Sorry about that - got caught out by the predict text 

 

Chris, what I am looking for is a polished reflective surface that is showing signs of oxidation but is still reflective - so I do want some reflection - I don’t want the B-17 to look like It’s been painted silver.
 

too much reflection can be toned down but not enough shine will be less helpful because when it gets weathered It could most likely end up looking like silver paint 
 

Tamiya TS-83 would most likely be easier to weather and work on rather than the Al-Clad which tends to be quite “fragile”

 

Andrew

[Werdna]

If I was choosing, based on the pics here, I'd go for the Tamiya TS 83..

[Chuck1945]

Another vote for the Tamiya. The others look more like someone attacked the cowls with polishing clothes to prepare for an inspection or parade

Edited August 17, 2020 by Chuck1945
Fix a typo

[Microbike]

6 hours ago, Werdna said:

If I was choosing, based on the pics here, I'd go for the Tamiya TS 83..

Awesome thank you Werdna for your suggestion 

[Microbike]

2 hours ago, Chuck1945 said:

attacked the cowls with polishing clothes to prepare for an inspection or parade

Hehehe Chuck - good one 😁thank you for your suggestion looks like for this aircraft the Tamiya TS-83 is the paint to use

 

i wonder what a large wing will look like sprayed with Tamiya TS-83 Polished Aluminium - I suspect it too might be too reflective and will need so toning down and shade variation 

 

I will paint one of the wings tonight and post the results here

[RODH2]

I use Tamiya TS-17 for a scale-perspective 'in service/reflective", not that I can fault the look of TS-83.  Tamiya AS-12 for a duller perspective. (You can use both TS and AS on a model with an overnight dry between.) Hey, I was an aircraft spray-painter going back a bit!  😄

[sroubos]

Very interesting topic, I like these comparison shots. We should have someone do this for all permutations of paints and primer bases

 

I generally use Humbrol Polished Aluminium from a spray can if I want to do something you're describing in the opening post but that does results in a much matter and less reflective appearance than the Tamiya, but then I always apply it on a normal gray primer background.

[Blimpyboy]

On 8/17/2020 at 4:38 AM, dogsbody said:

Personally, I like the Tamiya best. To my old eye, it looks more natural metal duralumin.

Seconded - Tamiya to my eye.

 I find it’s reflective, without the polished mirror effect of the others.

 If you’re an advocate of the scale effect, the dull, slightly anodised look is more realistic on 1/72 models.

 

I find that, after a coat of the Tamiya paint, a very light dry-brushing with Humbrol’s buffable Polished Aluminium (27002) gives quite a good - and realistically non-uniform - metallic finish.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Blimpyboy

[Microbike]

8 hours ago, Blimpyboy said:

Seconded - Tamiya to my eye.

 I find it’s reflective, without the polished mirror effect of the others.

 If you’re an advocate of the scale effect, the dull, slightly anodised look is more realistic on 1/72 models.

 

I find that, after a coat of the Tamiya paint, a very light dry-brushing with Humbrol’s buffable Polished Aluminium (27002) gives quite a good - and realistically non-uniform - metallic finish.

Sounds like the Tamiya is the most appropriate paint to use for the bare metal effect. Appreciate all the suggestions and discussion 

[Microbike]

Sprayed the one wing using Tamiya TS-83 Polished Aluminium. Applied two light coats used about 4ml of paint to cover the wing in two coats - so its very thin

 

Used a low 12 psi pressure through a Badger 200 airbrush

 

here is how it came out without any polishing of buffing. It is still reflective but not a mirror finish - it is currently rather uniform so I will apply some shading and colour variation to the panels

 

Top of the left wing

 

Bottom of the left wing

 

and a view from the front

 

Some areas of the wing and the nacelles seem to be a bit more reflective than the rest of the wing

 

Cheers

Andrew

 

[Seawinder]

4 hours ago, Microbike said:

Some areas of the wing and the nacelles seem to be a bit more reflective than the rest of the wing

 

Cheers

Andrew

 

Predictably, the rounder surfaces (nacelles and leading edges) come out with more shine. It may well be satisfactory, but IMHO it doesn't fulfill your original stated goal of a reflective metallic surface -- looks, at least in the photos, more like a satin metallic paint. If it were I, I'd consider applying some Alclad Polished Aluminum over at least the wing surfaces, or perhaps some other, buff-able product.

[Microbike]

8 hours ago, Seawinder said:

more like a satin metallic paint.

Yes you are right overall the wing does look more like it’s been painted than fulfilling the goal of a reflective metal surface.

 

i have sprayed the right hand wing with Al-Clad High Shine Polished Aluminium and it’s certainly different to the left wing that has been sprayed by TS-83 

 

will post the photos of the right wing tonight and also post photos of the two wings together for comparison 

 

I am interested to see what other modellers think

[Microbike]

The effect I am looking for is that elusive reflective surface as shown by the two World War II photos below

 

 

 

in the colour photo you can certainly see how reflective the surface is (but it’s not like a mirror so it’s a sort of dull reflective surface) 

 

I am not convinced the Tamiya TS-83 wing captures this reflective surface correctly 

 

 

[Microbike]

In some cases the aircraft was very reflective - most likely shortly after leaving the factory - and it will oxidise over time - the above two photos show older aircraft that clearly demonstrates the high reflection nature of the finish

 

much harder to achieve in 1/72 scale 

 

below another interesting photo 

[Toryu]

I think your wing looks great the way it is. See the wing root on the picture immidiately above - just like yours (even a little less shiny). Same for the engine covers in the colour picture of the previous post. Too much mirror effect looks unrealistic on war-time models, particularly in 1/72.  In the end it's plastic and not metal, and that makes it toy-like. Remember the chrome-plated models of the seventies? I always think of those when I see a high-shine warbird.

You might consider polishing your existing coat with a cloth or similar and/or sealing it with gloss varnish.

[Microbike]

16 minutes ago, Toryu said:

Same for the engine covers in the colour picture of the previous post

Yes the cowlings do look very matt rather than reflective yet in the b/w above it looks more reflective so quite a broad spectrum- modelling licence to vary your finish 

[Microbike]

17 minutes ago, Toryu said:

Too much mirror effect looks unrealistic on war-time models, particularly in 1/72. 

Yes I agree too much mirror effect is no good - the models of the 70s referred to above were mirror chrome and that did look unrealistic and toy like 
 

yet silver paint on a 1/72 locks well like silver paint so that’s not realistic either with respect to a natural metal finish - it’s a very elusive finish 

 

somehow the TS-83 while reflective and better than TS17 or TS30 still to my eye looks more like paint than bare aluminium 

 

the quest continues 

[Microbike]

So here is the Right Hand wing sprayed with Al-Clad Hi-Shine Polished Aluminium

 

Top of the wing

 

Underside RH Wing

 

Right wing top/front

 

So this is not a mirro effect and looks a bit more reflective than the TS-38 in previous posts above

 

Will post the side by side photo of the TS -83 wing vs Al-Clad wing later today 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

The single biggest differentiator here as far as I'm concerned is the stark difference in complexity of the surface between real thing and model. Nothing you apply to a regular shaped model surface is going to give the complex scatter of reflections that real aluminium aircraft give. Stressed skin buckles and ripples between frames, stringers and ribs generally and quite significantly between rivets. The rivet heads themselves scatter light in different directions.

 

Unless you're going to try to model their aircraft's skin more realistically (which I've tried, and it was a lot of work) then my personal inclination would be to lean towards a duller finish because on average an aluminium aircraft doesn't reflect light the way the model will. The model looks like it's been moulded, whereas the real aircraft has been fabricated and looks every inch like it has.