FW-190A-8 to F-8 conversion, 1/72, Airfix

[opus999]

The story so far...

 

I started this almost a month ago.  Ten of the days since then were spent off the grid in the Cascade Mountains, so I actually haven't been working on this for that long.  After some wonderful experiences with Airfix's new tool offerings (especially the P-40C and Typhoon), I purchased their FW-190A-8.  I only found out later that it seems to be universally disliked because of the engineering/fit of the cowling assembly and cockpit.  That fact and the plain paint scheme (and the purchase of a couple Eduard A-5's) really soured me on the kit and it was pushed to the back of the closet.

 

Recently I got to thinking that it would be nice to do an A-8, and maybe I should look for a late war scheme for it, since between the cabinet and the stash I will have a ton of RLM 74/75/65 builds.  I found just a scheme in Aeromasters "Defense of the Reich Pt. III" decal set.  So, I once again was really excited to try and tackle this kit!

 

The scheme I picked is in the bottom of this photo (which is unfortunately very dark) and is RLM 81/82/76.  

 

 

...and here it is in black and white:

 

 

Having read enough criticisms of this kit, I kind of knew what to expect and before I did anything, shaved about a mm off both sides of the cockpit floor.  A lot of dry fitting was needed to ensure that the width was correct. Somehow I missed taking pictures of the cockpit tub, but I added some Eduard steel photoetch seatbelts. I then did more dry fitting to work out a plan to get the parts to fit together right, taped the fuselage halves together and carefully applied glue along the seams from the inside (as much as possible) using my "glue looper" and CA.  Then came the dreaded pieces on the top of the cowl -- the machine gun cover humps and the channels in front of the machine guns.  They are very slightly wider than the fuselage, although I'm not sure if it's from bad design or because I didn't glue the fuselage halves together "Just right".  At any rate, I knew I would have to do some filling and sanding.  But first, I needed to have an accident and break off one of the guns that is molded on to the piece! 😕 So, a quick repair and then very careful gluing and I was done with the fuselage.

 

Airfix's instructions have you complete the entire build, and as a last step assemble the propeller, oil cooler and engine as an assembly that is then inserted into the front of the fuselage.  It seems this is to allow a spinning propeller, which is always a bonus, but given the overlap in some of the other pieces, I thought I'd better dry fit this first.  Well, right off the bat it wouldn't fit because the opening seemed to be too small (again, maybe that's my fault), but even worse, the oil cooler sticks out from the rest of the cowling!  (It's supposed to!  See Dogsbody's reply below.  Oops.)  So, I decided "to heck with a spinning propeller" and glued the assembly in so I could sand it flush and worry about attaching the prop later:

 

 

 

Those pictures show the overall poor fit of the pieces and the overlap at the front of the cowl. A lot of superglue was used to fill, and a lot of sanding was done!  But I was happy with it and continued on with painting.

 

This was the first time I used Hataka's late war Luftwaffe paint set.  I have been tremendously happy with all of their paints that I've used so far so I was surprised when this happened:

 

 

 

It came out Green and Purple.  No "Brown violet" about it. It was purple.  I shook the heck of that brown violet a 2nd time, thinking it wasn't mixed enough and painted a test and it came out the same.  It looks like something the Joker from Batman would fly!  So I started this thread to get some opinions from folks that know more than I:

 

 

 

I received a lot of very helpful advice and there was some great discussion.  Overall I learned a lot from it.  Unfortunately, the evidence from late war RLM colors is scant at best and so I had to make a bit of a guess.  I was able to get the colors more to my liking by dusting it with Hataka's RLM 79b (medium brown).  I then worked out a paint ratio to match and did the mottling:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Up till this point, I had not been able to find any photographs of this paint scheme on the internet.  @SafetyDad found a couple photos of it in a book and it turns out that the a/c was an F-8, not an A-8 like the Aeromaster sheet said!  Once I started searching for an F-8, I found lots of interpretations of this aircraft's paint scheme and I even found that Revell made a 1/48 version of it 7 or 8 years ago. I also found that the common interpretation is in RLM 74/75/76.  Given the discussion on my paint thread above, I think it's really anybody's guess what the colors really were, but one thing was certain from the book photos: the pattern that Aeromaster has you paint doesn't match the real aircraft at all. 

 

What a disappointment. 

 

The whole reason why I chose these decals was for that specific scheme.  I did some soul searching for a couple of days and decided to just keep going with it because I like the scheme so much.  It bugs me that it's not historically accurate, but I guess you can't win them all.  I decided to convert this into an F-8, so at least that part of the build would be accurate.  I found spare parts in my Eduard A-5 kits in the stash for the centerline bomb rack and bomb as well as the correct support strut for the armored headrest.  Airfix provides a blown canopy as an extra, which was nice.  So all I had to order was the ETC50 bomb racks for under the wings.  I found them in resin on ebay and ordered them.

 

The first step was to remove the shell ejection ports and surrounding blisters:

 

 

I used a Dremel with a grinding wheel.  I put Tamiya tape around the blister which protected the paint quite well from little nicks from the wheel:

 

 

 

I then sanded these smooth.  Next, I had to cut the outer cannons off, which left some areas that needed filling and sanding (apologies for the backlit photos.  I was not thinking):

 

 

 

 

 

Once these were filled and sanded, I glued the ETC50 racks and the centerline bomb rack on:

 

 

 

 

Then came the delicate art of touching the paint up and making it match the old paint job.

 

 

 

The resin ETC50 racks are exquisitely detailed, which is a shame because the bombs will cover all that detail up:

 

 

You might notice the left-most sway brace is broken.  I've snapped 4 off these off so far and have been able to successfully glue them back on.  They are so thin, it's incredible.  Unfortunately, I lost one last night.  Ugh.

 

So late last night and this morning I gloss coated the model in preparation for decals.  I need to do some painting on the various detail parts (bombs, landing gears, etc.).

 

And so the saga ends for now....

Edited August 15, 2020 by opus999

[dogsbody]

Looking good. That oil cooler ring is actually supposed to stand a bit proud of the cowling.

 

 

In the diagram below, you can see the airflow inside the two red circles. The cooling fan pressurized the inside of the engine cowling. Some of the pressurized air moved forward, through the oil cooler ring and then exited out that small gap behind the ring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

 

 

[opus999]

1 hour ago, dogsbody said:

That oil cooler ring is actually supposed to stand a bit proud of the cowling.

Aw man.... So it is. Why didn't I see that before?  I have an uncanny knack for looking at something a million times and not seeing a particular detail.   

 

Now I can't un-see it.  Heck I even see it in the Aeromaster profile sheet.  Well, live and learn.

 

Thanks for correcting me, though... I would rather know the truth than be ignorant.  This has certainly been an educational build for me!

[dogsbody]

Hey, we all have those Oh  moments. That's how we learn. For future reference, if you have any questions about anything, ask it here, on the forum. Someone will most likely answer you fairly quickly. 

 

 

 

Chris

[SafetyDad]

Your build looks really good there Opus. Excellent job on removing the blisters, adding the racks (which look marvellous!) and then matching the paint. Why not leave the bombs off? Leaving those lovely racks visible?

 

Regarding the paint: I agree totally with you about the paint scheme for the real aircraft - it could be almost any combination of colours. Photos of other aircraft in the unit show an enormous variation in tones and hues in B&W - it would seem that a lot of improvisational painting went on here. As in the thread you've linked to - look at the contrast between Black 6 (your intended aircraft) and Black 4 in the two photos here - and these are both from the same unit, namely St./SG 10.

 

 

Source: Rajlich J., Kokoska S. & Janda A. (2001) 'Luftwaffe over Czech Territory 1945' Japo Prague  pp.61.

 

Your quest for accuracy is entirely understandable, but as we've realised Aeromaster have made some significant mistakes here essentially leading you away down a false path, making it impossible to produce an accurate version of Black 6 at the moment. But your paintwork looks great!

 

I've had a search for possible alternative subjects for you, based on your existing choice of colour scheme, but haven't found anything suitable. Most F-8s finished in dark colours seem to use a dark green/grey pairing.  Or may have been overpainted at unit level as above?

 

One possible way forward for you for the colours and markings might be to portray your aircraft as another St./SG 10 aircraft, but an aircraft for which we don't have any photos? For example, with the decals you already have you could easily invert the 6 to make 'Black 9' retaining your present paint scheme? Yes, we have no pictures for this (and it may well not have existed), but this would be a way to produce an attractive model finished as representative of late war unit improvisational schemes. 

 

And it would look pretty nifty 

And we are supposed to enjoy this modelling business!

 

SD

 

[opus999]

14 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Hey, we all have those Oh  moments.

Don't I know it!  

 

14 hours ago, dogsbody said:

if you have any questions about anything, ask ithere, on the forum. Someone will most likely answer you fairly quickly.

Yes, I was amazed at how quickly I got an answer on my paint color question.  I just wish I had the time to contribute some answers that are just as helpful!

[opus999]

9 hours ago, SafetyDad said:

Why not leave the bombs off? Leaving those lovely racks visible?

That was my original plan, but after breaking off several of the sway braces, I thought that adding the bombs and gluing the sway braces to them would add some protection.  You may ask why this is an issue since models are not handled often -- well, I live in the "desert" part of Washington State ("The Evergreen State"... Ha!) which is very dusty and I have to dust my models every couple of months or so (despite being in glass cabinets with doors).  So it's very likely I will be snapping the rest of them off despite my best efforts.  Plus, I've lost one of the sway braces and I'm not sure how to kludge a substitute. Still... they look awfully nice as is... I'm still on the fence on this one.

 

9 hours ago, SafetyDad said:

One possible way forward for you for the colours and markings might be to portray your aircraft as another St./SG 10 aircraft, but an aircraft for which we don't have any photos?

 I like your thinking! I would miss the big white "70" on the nose, but that could be saved for another attempt at this a/c someday.  The stickler in me was still having a little angst over finishing it as black 6 with that camo pattern despite the evidence, so making "black 9" is a lovely solution.

 

9 hours ago, SafetyDad said:

And we are supposed to enjoy this modelling business!

Oh, I do!  even when things go awry. I think part of me enjoys the struggle once in a while. 

 

As if I hadn't had enough... My probable next build is an Indian MiG-21 with a tiger stripe pattern that seems to only have one black and white photo as its basis. I've done a lot of research on it and only come up with one other b/w photo of the nose section of one that crashed.  I've seen many interpretations of the possible colors and read a couple threads about it that became quite fraught at the end.  At least with the Indian Tiger build, I'll be going into it with eyes wide open!

 

Thanks for the ideas!

[dogsbody]

I forgot to add that your model does look great. Nice work!

 

 

 

Chris

[opus999]

12 hours ago, dogsbody said:

I forgot to add that your model does look great. Nice work!

 

 

 

Chris

Thanks Chris!  I really appreciate that.

[opus999]

Mischief managed!  Last night I painted all of the "auxiliary" pieces:

 

 

After that I put three coats of Aqua Gloss on for decals.

 

Today I found some time to get the decals on.

 

 

I'm really happy with it so far, although I managed to break off and lose another sway brace.  I suppose in retrospect I should've left those racks off until the end, but I wanted to get a good bond with the glue.

 

Hopefully I will be able to find time tomorrow for some weathering.

[woody37]

Lovely progress

 

[SafetyDad]

Good job there! 

Looks the part - looking forward to the finished result

 

SD

[dogsbody]

Is that propeller painted black? It looks black. It shouldn't be black.

 

 

 

Chris

[opus999]

4 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Is that propeller painted black? It looks black. It shouldn't be black.

Good observation -- no it's just my low lighting / poor camera adjustment at midnight!  I used Hataka's RLM70 on it, and it looks great against the black spinner. I used the same paint on my Ju-88 Build: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235072462-ju-88a-4-1144-revell/.

 

9 hours ago, SafetyDad said:

Looks the part - looking forward to the finished result

So am I!  

 

12 hours ago, woody37 said:

Lovely progress

Thank you! 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by opus999

[dogsbody]

5 minutes ago, opus999 said:

Good observation -- no it's just my low lighting / poor camera adjustment at midnight!  I used Hataka's RLM70 on it, and it looks great against the black spinner. I used the same paint on my Ju-88 Build: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235072462-ju-88a-4-1144-revell/.

 

So am I!  

 

Thank you! 

 

 

 

Ooh! That is dark. Carry on!

 

 

 

Chris

[opus999]

Odds n' ends so far this week.  Not a ton of time on the weeknights.  Sunday afternoon I got the canopy masked.

 

 

Monday I broke out the oil paints and did some weathering; primarily oil stains, but other staining related to dirt accumulation from rain, etc.  I found a few great WWII era pics of FW-190s that showed the oil leakage pattern around the cowl.  The were about 5 or 6 pictures of 3 or 4 different aircraft, so I assumed it was consistent to the type.  I based my oil leakage on these pictures.

 

 

(this was actually taken after I dull coated on tuesday...)  Tuesday I gave it a quick shot of Gunze GX113 and after that cured I used my super-thin pencil to go over some panel lines that had been obliterated by all the sanding (mostly around the cowl, and a couple on the spine).  I left the rest alone as the Airfix panel lines don't need it. But what was desperately needed was the oil cooler ring panel line that I so wantonly and callously sanded out of existence!  See the above picture -- I think it turned out pretty well. 

 

 

The exhaust pattern came from numerous vintage photos I'd found.  I wonder if I should go over it with some brown paint -- I've seen that brown over black pattern in real-life on warbirds.  I haven't found a vintage photo that really shows it, but I'm sure it happened.  Any thoughts out there?

 

Dullcoated the spinner too.  Darn it, it's a blurry picture, but you get the idea.

 

 

The decals were a bit more trouble than usual.  I had a couple little silvered spots.  Now, to put it in perspective, they are little!  but huge in my eyes.  Of course it took the dull coat to notice them, which made fixing them harder.  I was able to repair about half of them and the rest will just have to stay.  I haven't had problems like that in a long time (well, except for those horrid Peddinghaus decals on my Bf-190G-6, but that's a special case. 😠 )

 

Last night I mixed up my special mix of 1 part Hataka RLM 79a to 2 parts Hataka RLM 82 and painted the canopy.  Naturally, the very last piece of masking I removed took off a chunk of paint that will need repairing.

 

 

Not much left but quite a few odds n' ends. A couple touch-ups, a little paint chipping, final assembly.  Maybe I'll be able to finish tomorrow night!

  

Edited August 20, 2020 by opus999

[opus999]

Oh, yeah -- I'm going to try and fabricate the 2 sway braces I broke off, too.  Fingers crossed...

[jackroadkill]

I think this is grand - it's hard (or I certainly find it hard) to get things 100% accurate from a historical perspective.  For one thing, finding pictures of your specific aircraft can be very hard, and then you find several which contradict each other....  Different pictures taken at different times and all that.

 

Anyway, I like your representation of the aircraft.

[Werdna]

12 hours ago, opus999 said:

The exhaust pattern came from numerous vintage photos I'd found.  I wonder if I should go over it with some brown paint -- I've seen that brown over black pattern in real-life on warbirds.  I haven't found a vintage photo that really shows it, but I'm sure it happened.  Any thoughts out there?

The 'shape' of the exhaust stains look about right, but I would usually do them a bit heavier and extend further back, also along the wing roots.  In terms of 'brown over black' - a cold engine will generally blow out a lot of smoke/soot until it warms up - especially if the valve seats or ring/bore seal is poor - which very likely they were by then.  Fuel quality was also an issue and late war engines had the potential to blow out quite a lot of muck..

[opus999]

On 8/20/2020 at 7:16 AM, jackroadkill said:

I think this is grand - it's hard (or I certainly find it hard) to get things 100% accurate from a historical perspective.  For one thing, finding pictures of your specific aircraft can be very hard, and then you find several which contradict each other....  Different pictures taken at different times and all that.

 

Anyway, I like your representation of the aircraft.

Thanks a lot! I agree that it is pretty hard to be completely accurate.  I struggle with learning to say "close enough!"  I've got a couple builds coming up that may have next to no pictures and I will have to accept that some artistic interpretation is OK.

 

On 8/20/2020 at 7:25 AM, Werdna said:

The 'shape' of the exhaust stains look about right, but I would usually do them a bit heavier and extend further back, also along the wing roots.  In terms of 'brown over black' - a cold engine will generally blow out a lot of smoke/soot until it warms up - especially if the valve seats or ring/bore seal is poor - which very likely they were by then.  Fuel quality was also an issue and late war engines had the potential to blow out quite a lot of muck..

I should've figured that... it makes sense.  

[opus999]

I got all the odds 'n' ends done finally.  Bits of touch-up painting, painting red on the trim tabs, dry brushing wheels and tires, painting exhaust stains,  fabricating new sway braces, paint chipping.... and so on... and so on.

 

I had to do a lot of trimming on the brace for the armored seat back.  I assume that Airfix's canopy was thicker than Eduard's so that the inner width was too narrow for the piece to fit.  Got it to work though!

 

It's interesting that Airfix provided indents for the loop antenna... but didn't include the loop antenna!

 

 

Luckily I had a spare from the Eduard kit.

 

Anyhow, I got over the finish line!  I'm really happy with it too.  Here's a sneak peak I shot before dinner -- I'll try to get a proper RFI up tomorrow.

 

[Gondor44]

Like what youve done with this kit which prompted me to buy the F-8/A-8 kit by Airfix

 

Gondor

[SafetyDad]

Looks great!

Excellent job all round. 

 

SD

[opus999]

5 hours ago, Gondor44 said:

Like what youve done with this kit which prompted me to buy the F-8/A-8 kit by Airfix

Thanks!  The kit isn't so bad if you know what to expect ahead of time.  With a little work around the cowl it builds up into a nice looking model.

 

 

[opus999]

RFI is here.

 

I think my next build will be something easier to put together, with better documented colors, and a simple paint scheme.   That will give me a bit of a rest!   My Hasagawa Spitfire Mk. VII ("Spirit of Kent") project comes to mind...