Which paints to use?

[Ray_W]

17 minutes ago, IJNfan said:

 How do you mean perfomance is better than with Tamiya's? do they have a better finish or ...?

Mr Hobby Aqueous Color is very similar to Tamiya. Advantages are minor but significant enough for me to go there first. These are (1) smoother finish with finer pigment (largely perception), (2) not tied to a matt finish as the starting point (Gunze semi-gloss) (3) often a good colour rendition off the shelf so no mixing and (4) retains full compatibility with Tamiya and the two brands can mixed together.

 

However, if you are worried about smell, and I can see why because I still use Mr Color Levelling Thinner with these aqueous paints (Tamiya and Gunze), then go for Lifecolor. You still need a chemical mask. Even with good ventilation, I continue to be amazed how quickly masks block with paint dust. 

 

And just to confuse matters further, I used AK Real Colors recently on a build and they were brilliant. Some debate on color accuracy depending on the subject. Certainly worthy of consideration. They also have compatibility with the Gunze and Tamiya aqueous range but are peculiar in that they do not wash out in water. They have very little smell. I'd say they use an acrylic binder but must use an ethanol based solvent as a minimum. I used the product with their thinners and was impressed. They have a Japanese range.

 

36 minutes ago, IJNfan said:

I would be limited because of the "enamel" finish which on the revell's I really disliked and most of all the drying time is long.

The "enamels" have come a long way.  My preference is still for a paint with an acrylic binder be it using a water, ethanol or more aggressive lacquer thinner solvent but, the solvents being used with today's enamels can lend themselves to faster curing times than experienced before. Hopefully some of the enamel guys will chime in. 

 

This reference is a good starting point if you have not captured it already:

 

https://www.cybermodeler.com/color/ija_table.shtml

 

As always, check and form your own opinion. There is also a section on model paint in J-aircraft.com. I think it is a little out of date.

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

[ckw]

1 hour ago, IJNfan said:

As for Enamels, my first painted model was painted with Revell enamels, I never sprayed enamels through my airbrush, but the revell enamels do not have the finish  that the tamiya's have as the Tamiya's just blend with the plastic while the enamels from revell visibly are put on the plastic, I hope the distinction is clear enough. I am afraid if I would use colorcoats that I would be limited because of the "enamel" finish which on the revell's I really disliked and most of all the drying time is long.

Used Revell enamels once -never again. When I came back into modelling I started using acrylics, but after a while went back to enamels (Xtracolor, Colourcoats and, in a pinch, Humbrol). It is perfectly possible to get as good or better finish as Tamiya, but it takes a while to refine technique thinning ratios etc. The longer drying time is true (but this is a plus for things like mottling) but the drying time is perhaps not as long as you think - properly thinned and sprayed, you could mask Colourcoats in 3-6 hours. But I do suspect getting them from the Netherlands may be difficult or expensive. 

 

Cheers,

 

Colin

[dogsbody]

I'm not claiming these are totally accurate, but here is a list of Tamiya mixes:

 

http://www.aerohistorians.org/Other/Tamiya_paint_mixes_4-17.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[DrumBum]

Seems like a reasonable place to jump in, my subject has been covered a little thus far on this thread.

 

I use acrylics in my modern aircraft modeling, Tamiya and Model Master sprayed through a Paasche H or VL.

 

I have never used undercoats before and have rarely had trouble with paint pulling up after masking. 

 

I use Tamiya masking tape pressed onto my work mat about 5 times to reduce the level of tack and always wash the model with soap and water before painting.

 

BUT, today after removing tape from the rear end of an F-4 it pulled up about an inch of grey paint. I have not had this happen before and I am assuming that there was some release agent left behind that the washing missed.

 

So it raised several questions in my mind.

 

What are the advantages of priming the surface. Does it prevent this from happening. What primer is recommended.

 

And it has started me to also ask, why do I use acrylics. I like to wash up in water and there is less chemical involved as a result. I last used enamels when I was a kid building kits in the 70's but maybe its time to reconsider. My only concern at this stage being airbrush cleanup.

 

Thanks for any thoughts,

 

cheers for now.

 

 

[dogsbody]

I forgot to add that before I primered my paint mule, I did wipe it down with a small makeup type pad soaked in 99% isopropyl alcohol.

 

 

Chris

[oileanach]

On 8/14/2020 at 12:47 PM, Sunna said:

Hi guys, I have been away from modelling kits for quite a few years. I now have a few kits that I want to start. I have quite an extensive selection of Tamiya paints but I have seen so many other paints being recommended that I am wondering if these are the best I could use. I intend working on armour at first but will be tackling a couple of U boat models and possibly some figures at some point. Has anyone got any recommendations?

I suspect most modelers on here have preferences, but I'd say there isn't a single 'best' paint range. Manufacturers are constantly chasing new trends, but it doesn't make their old paint redundant, much less 'bad'. Our hobby is an art form and like all art, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some like an ultra realistic look, some prefer cartoonish finishes. Whatever floats your boat is the 'best' effect and what you use to get there is your own, correct, choice.

 

For recommendations I'd say go with what you've got for now. You'll soon figure out what's important to you.

 

For me, it's convenience. I want my paint to dry quickly, I want bright colours, I don't want it to smell bad. Almost all of my paint is acrylic.

 

I mainly paint figures and these days those are mainly Games Workshop and Forge World, so I have a lot of their brush paint. It's not the 'best' in my collection, I really dislike their bottles and there's a large variation in the consistency of their paints- some are lovely and smooth, some are like poorly diluted chalk! I still have some of their older paints and I occasionally buy from the manufacturers they used to use- Coat D'Arms are still one of my favourites. When you get around to figures, I'm not sure I'd recommend Citadel over Vallejo or Coat D'Arms, but I'm definitely in the minority on that one. The whole World seem to use their range and the new Contrast range are all the rage! >shrug< 

I actually prefer Vallejo airbrush paint for brush painting minis! It's already at a nice consistency and it retains a fair amount of opacity. The best part is that consistency- all their paints perform the same way, there's only one learning curve. I'm old, I don't have nearly enough time to enjoy the hobby, I don't want to be learning new techniques when I've got so far to go in perfecting the ones I already use!   

On 8/15/2020 at 11:58 AM, Sunna said:

Thanks guys, I do intend using the Tamiya acrylics it's just that I have heard so much about Vellejo that I thought maybe I am barking up the wrong tree. Every Youtube video I watch someone seems to be using some other product and my head is getting swamped. It has been a few years since I have done any model building and I am wanting to make sure I have the right tools before getting started again. I wish I had access to all the tutorials when I was young. I had no idea how people could get models looking so realistic.

I wouldn't be too bothered by the youtube massive bigging up paint ranges- they've got a vested interest in persuading you that what they're using is the absolute best!

 

As an example, I don't have any AFV paint or products. I do have a friend who collects tank models. So, every now and then, instead of sending something his wife would approve of, I add to his collection. If the photos are still up, this is the effect I managed using the acrylics and basing materials I happened to have lying around: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234972734-academy-m18-super-hellcat/

 

I'm pretty sure there are much better paints and potions out there- including your Tamiya stuff- but it was fun putting the project together and there wasn't any particular need for applying the 'best' to get a half way decent result. I'm not skilled enough to get a better finish, even if I had all the latest paints, pigments, weathering kits and whatnot.

 

Tl;dr have some fun with what you've already got. Buy some cheaper kits and try out the effects the gurus on youtube are showing, using what you've got to hand. Mostly, post up pics on here. Positive feedback really helps your morale- I can almost guarantee you'll be the harshest critic of your work on here! 

[Sparkie]

Without trying to hijack somebody else's thread, this is sort of related 😄

 

 

What about oil paints?

 

Would I be right in saying that the more expensive Windsor and Newton type ones are much better than the cheap ones from the paint sets in B&M etc?

 

Given that we are not painting on canvas as they are meant, but mostly thinning right down for highlights and washes, does it make much of a difference for our needs?

 

 

[Ray_W]

17 minutes ago, Sparkie said:

Without trying to hijack somebody else's thread, this is sort of related 😄

 

 

What about oil paints?

 

Would I be right in saying that the more expensive Windsor and Newton type ones are much better than the cheap ones from the paint sets in B&M etc?

 

Given that we are not painting on canvas as they are meant, but mostly thinning right down for highlights and washes, does it make much of a difference for our needs?

 

 

In my experience I do not see a whole lot of difference for wash applications. Most of my early modelling experience with oils was with cheap brands and I had no complaints. If you are right into oils for things such as figure painting then the decision process will be more tricky - colour, blending, drying time. This is another case where it gets down to personal preference. I have come to prefer Abteilung oil paints as they tend to not be as oily as artist's brands. This is very noticeable when you put the oil paint onto some paper towel, or what ever you use, to wick away the oil base and dry the pigment to a level more suitable for modelling purposes. 

 

I think another consideration is what thinners to use. If I want a slower drying time I'll use odourless thinners. Quick naptha (lighter fluid).

 

Ray  

[sapperastro]

I mainly use enamels. I don't understand what some people are doing to the Revell enamel, because I get a very nice finish with it (it does dry too quickly, so needs a touch more thinner when working with it). Same with Colourcoats. Same with Tamiya enamel. Same with old Humbrol, and New new Humbrol after their bad period. As someone said here earlier, experiences vary. I see others using paint I hate and getting wonderful finishes, and vice versa. Yes, enamel takes a while to dry, but the results I get are worth it, to me. On top of this, the new enamels smell much less than the old, and because I use water based turps to wash my gear out with, I don't have to worry about the stench of mineral turps either! Enamel is an oldie, but a goldie.

 

Out of the acrylics, I can use Tamiya with a brush, though I find it dries a LOT quicker than the old tubs I have from the early 80s. Nothing a little retarder doesn't fix. Same goes for GSI Creos (Gunze aqueous, or whatever they call it over there). Revell Aqua is pretty good, as is the new new Humbrol acrylic. But the only acrylic I found that could possibly take the crown from enamels for me was Pollyscale. That stuff was incredible paint to use, so easy to get a good finish it was ridiculous. Too bad they discontinued it....

Edited September 25, 2020 by sapperastro