Martin B-57G - Enter the Dragon!***FINISHED***

[PeterB]

Thanks Craig,

 

I must get some new glasses once my optician is up and running again! After 2 years or more mainly using acrylic paint with the odd use of Humbrol Matt, I had forgotten just how smelly some of the Xtracolour paints were - probably because they are gloss. Oh well, I have reluctantly hit my bank account again and ordered some acrylic paint for the next two, along with replacement ejector seats. Perhaps I should have primed it after all as the greens did not cover that well, but I have just put the second coat on and they look much better. I should get the second coat of tan on in the morning and then I will post a pic, but as I recall the  high gloss makes taking photos a bit of a mess. Fortunately, once the finishing coat of matt/satin varnish goes on the colours should come out better - I think I used the same paints years ago on my F-105D and RF-101C and they look fine.

 

More as and when.

 

Pete

Edited August 29, 2020 by PeterB

[Enzo the Magnificent]

On 23/08/2020 at 14:34, PeterB said:

 I normally use lead window strip

You complete and utter 🌟

[PeterB]

 

1 hour ago, Enzo Matrix said:

You complete and utter 🌟

Hi Enzo,

 

It does the same job as your motor bike tyre weights (I think that is what they are?) but I suspect it is easier to shape to fit in tight spaces as it is only about 0.5mm thick so you can fold it or roll it, and bend, or trim with cutters/scissors to get into pointy curved profile noses or inside drop tanks. It comes in a variety of widths from 3mm upwards, mine is I believe 9mm, and is normally on a spool costing around £9 for 5 metres from Amazon - proportionately cheaper if you buy 10m or 20m but that is an awful lot of lead - 5m has lasted me 20 years! It is usually self adhesive but I use CA anyway, to be safe. 23 grams fitted fairly easily into the B-57 nose and under the cockpit tub, and is perfect - enough to stop it tail sitting but not too much which might put a strain on the u/c. On my Frog He 162 I actually made a nose wheel door out of it as it was so finely balanced that a breath of wind would lift the nose! I find it very useful, though your wheel weights may be cheaper.

 

Pete

Edited August 26, 2020 by PeterB

[Enzo the Magnificent]

7 hours ago, PeterB said:

It does the same job as your motor bike tyre weights (I think that is what they are?) but I suspect it is easier to shape to fit in tight spaces 

Exactly.  I'm going to need that for my Broncos.

[PeterB]

Well, here we are after 2 coats of Xtracolour enamel on the upper surfaces.

Still a bit of work to do. From past experience the colours will change somewhat when they have had a coat of flattish varnish on. I believe the idea behind the high gloss finish is that it makes it esier to put decs on without having to varnish first, but it makes seeing to  paint and taking photos a bit more difficult, and boy does it stink the house out. In the past getting it to dry has been a problem but these are relatively recent tins and perhaps they changed the formula as they are drying in 24 hours or less.

 

Once I have tidied the top up I will make a start on the black undersurfaces. I am a bit unsure about the "chin" fairings on the nose - the kit instructiones show them as black but the profiles in the Osprey book show the upper surfaces of them in the camo colours, which is what I have gone for so far.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited August 27, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

Incidentally, does anybody have any idea how the Paveway 1 bombs were painted? The body of the bomb would presumably have been OD with a yellow nose band, but the guidance kit on later versions seems to have been a reddish brown colour - primer perhaps? Italeri seem to be goiing with the whole unit on this early version in OD, and I suppose they may be correct. 

 

Pete

[modelling minion]

Great to see the upper colours pretty much complete Pete, a very nice job.

 

I would think that the LGB's would have been over all OD.

[PeterB]

Thanks Craig,

 

Osprey show them in just one of the profiles with NMF heads, which might make sense!

 

I am hoping to end up with it looking something like this.

though of course with black undersides not gray. I believe this old Frog boxing of the Hasegawa kit from around 1970 is in the markings of 45TRS/416TRW which operated from Tan Son Nhut during the late 1960's, though this may well be painted with Humbrol Authentic SEA paint, or posssibly normal Humbrol Hu 116/117/118 together with an old tin of HU 10 for the undersides - I still have one! I originally built it wheels up in the NMF finish as on the box top, but then about 20 years later, I stripped it, fitted an Aeroclub white metal undercarriage, and painted it like this, using a Microscale decal sheet for the markings.

 

Pete

Edited August 27, 2020 by PeterB

[PeterB]

Hi,

 

Just been digging about in my books for more info, and I have found a pic which seems to suggest that the bombs were all OD and no yellow nose stripe. Incidentally,  another book I read called "Wiring Vietnam" is by a chap called Tambini who was with the F-4D Phantoms of 25TFS at Ubon during their involvement in "Igloo White " ground sensor operations - they dropped patterns of them along the various trails and they detected movement. He mentions the B-57G  as being a most effective machine for disrupting supply movements by the VC, but seems to have got it into his head that they all had a turret mounted Vulcan cannon under the belly. As far as I can tell only one was modified to test that and remained at Mac Dill in the states. Mind you he also says they were painted all black, presumably getting confused with the early B an RF-57E models, though he then shows a pic of a G in camo and says that the paint scheme worked very well.

 

You really do have to be careful about which authors you trust!

 

Pete

[PeterB]

Ok, 

 

New seats painted and ready to fit!

The kit one is on the left. No idea exactly what colour they were so may need a bit more work - look better from a distance!

 

Pete

[modelling minion]

I would say that the actual seat (not the cushioning) would be black Pete, but am happy to be proved wrong.

[PeterB]

Both Airfix and Italeri say a mix of grey and black for their B-57 kits and so I might add a bit of black.

 

Pete

[Pappy]

On 8/29/2020 at 6:35 AM, PeterB said:

Both Airfix and Italeri say a mix of grey and black for their B-57 kits and so I might add a bit of black.

 

Pete

The eats were grey, green cushions and red head pads.

 

The GBU-12 is basically a 'kit' that is used to convert ungided bombs into a guided variant. The Configuration Control Group (CCG) and the Airfoil Assembly are bolted onto a standard Mk.80 series bomb, a Mk.82 (500lb) in the case of a GBU-12. The bombs would have standard markings, so a yellow band near the nose to denote HE fill with yellow stencils for the lot details etc. The bodies tend to be stored in bomb dumps in varying conditions so they can vary from brand new to highly weathered. Since the CCG needs to be added to the nose of the bomb, an adapter is used. Depending on how the yellow band is applied i.e a thin band or a thicker band, this yellow HE marking may be obscured by the adapter. The red brown section of the CCG is to denote low explosive, as on early CCG versions, the CCG contained a gas grain generator that would burn once initiated upon bomb release. The gas grain generator  creates the gas pressure required to operate the moveable guidance fins located on the CCG the rear stabilisng fins deploy upon release but do not steer

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

Edited September 4, 2020 by Pappy

[PeterB]

Thanks Pappy,

 

I have painted the seats with lightish OD cushions and red/rown head rests but the kit instructions indicate that at least part of the frame was black, the rest being grey - I will have a fiddle with it and see what I think looks best.

 

Did the first generation Paveway  500lb combination have the red/brown guidance kit like the later versions - the only B&W pic I have shows it as being a dark colour but as mentioned earlier the Osprey profile suggests it was left in natural metal?

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[Pappy]

5 hours ago, PeterB said:

Thanks Pappy,

 

I have painted the seats with lightish OD cushions and red/rown head rests but the kit instructions indicate that at least part of the frame was black, the rest being grey - I will have a fiddle with it and see what I think looks best.

 

Did the first generation Paveway  500lb combination have the red/brown guidance kit like the later versions - the only B&W pic I have shows it as being a dark colour but as mentioned earlier the Osprey profile suggests it was left in natural metal?

 

Cheers

 

Pete

G'day Pete,

 

I don't have the Osprey book so I don't know what you are seeing. The Osprey profile may be based on a prototypical set-up  (Paveway LGBs were introduced during the Vietnam war) but production items from then to present include the red brown section on the GCS. The LGB kits have changed their overall colour from olive drab to grey and this is now the standard colour but 'nam era would have been O.D.

 

cheers,

 

Pappy

[Triet Cam]

Your SEA colors are spot on! Xtracolour is it?

[PeterB]

Hi,

 

Yes, using up old stock, but for the next two I think I will switch to Xtracrylic - dries faster and a lot less smell! Comparing it with the Voodoo the Xtracolour tan is lighter and less "yellow" but then that kit has been sat about for over 20 years in a hostile environment (pipe smoke etc) so it may have "weathered" - the canopy certainly has though I could take it off and clean it.

 

Pete

Edited August 29, 2020 by PeterB

[Hewy]

Smashing job on the camo peter , 

[trickyrich]

Gosh she has come along very nicely and quickly too!!

 

That wee bulge on the underneath is for an antenna, and from the sources I have it appears to have been fitted to "B" models as well. Though not all, same with the "G" as well, it may have been an operational thing or gradually introduced. Those where it isn't fitted, then there's a black round panel in its place (only can be see on the B model due to underside colour)....a flush mounted antenna?

 

I have the Warpaint #45 Martin B-57 Canberra and it shows 2 profiles, one with and one without.....though the scale drawings in the book show it fitted to a B model but not on the G.

 

If you can find it, "Martin B-57 Canberra - The Complete Record" by Robert C Mikesh is a really good reference book! The Osprey Combat Aircraft #85  "B-57 Canberra Units of the Vietnam War" is a good one as well, though not so many reference photos though.

[PeterB]

Hi Rich,

 

Do any of your books show under the nose of the B-57G? According to Italerii there is a large "plate" that goes just behind the nose extension and they say it should be painted white, but I only have a couple of pics taken from a distance and I cannot see any light coloured patch where it would be!

 

Hi Pappy,

 

Still a bit confused about the bomb colour - exactly which part of the Guidance kit was red/brown? I have seen pice of later Paveway which seem to have the complete unit in that colour including the forward fins, and other pics just showing the tubular centre part in red/brown and the fins in OD! The Hasegawa old weapons kit instructions, like the Italeri instuctions and box art, show everything in OD except the silver/gold coloured gimballed head!

 

Pete

Edited August 31, 2020 by PeterB

[trickyrich]

15 hours ago, PeterB said:

Do any of your books show under the nose of the B-57G? According to Italerii there is a large "plate" that goes just behind the nose extension and they say it should be painted white, but I only have a couple of pics taken from a distance and I cannot see any light coloured patch where it would be!

Hmmm I know what you mean with the panel, I did the same with the one I build many years ago....but then I didn't have any references. I'm away with work again but luckily I have a copy of my library on my laptop (old copy) and have found some photos...though can't post at the moment. In most of the photos this "white plate" seems to be missing. But in one it's there...along with the 20mm Pave Gat cannon system. It doesn't mention if the photo was taken in Vietnam or back in the states. 

 

I suspect this "white plate" may be a later modification/additional antenna/sensor. I think you'll be fine to omit it form your build, as all the other photos don't show it.

 

I will post some of these reference photos for you when I get back home on Sunday.

 

I do love your build!!! I'm going to have to do my 1/478th version one day!

[Pappy]

3 minutes ago, trickyrich said:

Hmmm I know what you mean with the panel, I did the same with the one I build many years ago....but then I didn't have any references. I'm away with work again but luckily I have a copy of my library on my laptop (old copy) and have found some photos...though can't post at the moment. In most of the photos this "white plate" seems to be missing. But in one it's there...along with the 20mm Pave Gat cannon system. It doesn't mention if the photo was taken in Vietnam or back in the states. 

 

I suspect this "white plate" may be a later modification/additional antenna/sensor. I think you'll be fine to omit it form your build, as all the other photos don't show it.

 

I will post some of these reference photos for you when I get back home on Sunday.

 

I do love your build!!! I'm going to have to do my 1/478th version one day!

Wow, that would be tiny 😊

[trickyrich]

 

I'm currently using my rooms Wifi....which is  ...... I did correct it but it didn't work!

 

But for the sake of humouring everyone, I will leave it!   I am mad but not that mad!

[Pappy]

On 9/1/2020 at 3:30 AM, PeterB said:

Hi Rich,

 

Do any of your books show under the nose of the B-57G? According to Italerii there is a large "plate" that goes just behind the nose extension and they say it should be painted white, but I only have a couple of pics taken from a distance and I cannot see any light coloured patch where it would be!

 

Hi Pappy,

 

Still a bit confused about the bomb colour - exactly which part of the Guidance kit was red/brown? I have seen pice of later Paveway which seem to have the complete unit in that colour including the forward fins, and other pics just showing the tubular centre part in red/brown and the fins in OD! The Hasegawa old weapons kit instructions, like the Italeri instuctions and box art, show everything in OD except the silver/gold coloured gimballed head!

 

Pete

Peter, do an internet image search for 'GBU-12' you will get hundreds of hits. The red brown portion is the central barrel section bolted onto the nose of the bomb, the fins and other bits on the CCG were green. You can even go to the walkaround section of BM/weapons/Paveway II and there are some pics ther but the UK used a different bomb body to the US and the CCG is the later type which includes the GPS antennas so not really the best reference but it does have some good pics of the colour codes on the fins and adapter. These are different colours for the 500lb (MK82 GBU-12) and 2000lb (MK 84 GBU-10) versions and ensures the correct steering fins are attached to the CCG as although the two different bombs are different diameters, they both use the same CCG section but with different adapter collars. The guidance fins that correspond to the appropriate adapter collar share the same coloured rectangle markings i.e orange with orange or yellow with yellow. Most people miss this

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Pappy

[PeterB]

Thanks Pappy,

 

I have looked at a few pics and I think I see what you mean, though there is quite a bit of variation. Mine will therefore be "representative" rather than 100% accurate!

 

Pete