JohnT Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 BBC reporting here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53693886 Forgive my ignorance by why the Typhoons? from the BBC report:- "During Monday's mission, the Poseidon's crew were supported by Typhoon fighter jets stationed at Lossiemouth and a Voyager refuelling aircraft from RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire." (my italics) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainpeden Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 The Voyager would have been as much use as a chocolate teapot if the P-8 needed refuelling but the Typhoons could have been there as a show of force in a low fly by the Russian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Is zhe defensive system on the P-8 fully operational already? Maybe the Typhoons supported in that way? The Voyager was needed to krep them in the air for a prolonged time I'd asdume! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Photo opportunity ? Duncan B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted August 9, 2020 Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 One Poseidon, two Typhoons and one Voyager seems an expensive way to keep an eye on one Russian ship outside UK waters. In the bad old days of Cold War tension a Shackleton or Nimrod would have been enough. (Mind you keeping a Lightning out for an extended time might have stretched the fuel budget for the year). One assumes it was necessary so I am wondering what the rationale was 1 hour ago, Duncan B said: Photo opportunity ? Duncan B Given the way MOD spends cash possibly but if only a few snaps were wanted would a quick rendezvous and smile for the birdie followed by a dash home have required air to air refuelling? Presumably there was some hanging around getting done out there? Still has an odd feel to it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, JohnT said: Given the way MOD spends cash possibly but if only a few snaps were wanted would a quick rendezvous and smile for the birdie followed by a dash home have required air to air refuelling? Presumably there was some hanging around getting done out there? Still has an odd feel to it Depends what training was already taking place at the time I suppose, the tanker might have been in the area with the Typhoons anyway. It does seem odd to phrase it the way the Press release did though as it made it sound like this was the normal operating procedure which would be odd (and Hell for the fast jet jocks sitting for 6-8 hours following a Boeing 737 around the sky over a forbidding sea ). Is this what happens when you have a Navy that hasn't got enough crew to operate the too few ships it does have? Duncan B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwenS Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 I'd always understood that it was SOP to put a tanker up whenever the fighters launched from QRA, so the presence of the tanker doesn't seem odd to me. Looks like the chance was being taken by the MoD for a bit of positive publicity with a show of strength and to show off the new toy. There has been criticism lately that the RN hasn't always been able to deploy a destroyer / frigate every time a Russian warship has come close to our shores. At the beginning of July a Russian task force, including a large Udaloy class destroyer, transitting the Channel was "escorted" by two River class patrol vessels, armament 1*20mm and a couple of GPMG. But it does raise the question where was the RN in all of this. Or maybe the RAF trying to get one over on the RN with budgets under review! But there is no inter-service rivalry so that can't be possible!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 All about the image and opportunity I would think with the Press release wording intended to appeal to readers of newspapers with 'Daily' in their titles. Would seem unlikely to have been a QRA response from the Typhoons as the one in 2 Squadron markings is carrying a RAIDS Pod , a training store , as opposed to an ASRAAM on the outer wing station. From what I have read over the years there does seem to be a certain formality to the way in which these photo-ops are conducted with at least the tacit agreement of the ship involved and are rarely as edgy as the media would like us to believe. The MoD would have known the ship was on its way , the P-8 would have been assigned in advance to monitor it and the Typhoon/Voyager participation would make for a nice story. Is it just coincidence that since being 'tarted up' that ZZ336 always seems to be the tanker of choice on these occasions , is it the only one that works at the moment or is it no use for anything else? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Also quite coincidental that the Typhoon happened to one of the very few still wearing any squadron markings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 7 hours ago, EwenS said: I'd always understood that it was SOP to put a tanker up whenever the fighters launched from QRA, so the presence of the tanker doesn't seem odd to me. Looks like the chance was being taken by the MoD for a bit of positive publicity with a show of strength and to show off the new toy. There has been criticism lately that the RN hasn't always been able to deploy a destroyer / frigate every time a Russian warship has come close to our shores. At the beginning of July a Russian task force, including a large Udaloy class destroyer, transitting the Channel was "escorted" by two River class patrol vessels, armament 1*20mm and a couple of GPMG. But it does raise the question where was the RN in all of this. Or maybe the RAF trying to get one over on the RN with budgets under review! But there is no inter-service rivalry so that can't be possible!! Given that half the 45s are in refit and out of the remaining 13 type 23s (all of which are old and do sterling service) at least a third of those are in bit. You tell me where the RN is .....up a creek without a paddle.Fair one on the crabs on a PR opportunity....at least most their aircraft arent 21+ years old . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelh Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Quote: "The Voyager involved is used by Prime Minister Boris Johnson and the royal family for international travel." Along with a picture of the flag bedecked aeroplane in question. That says 'Look it's also an operational aircraft too' not just a Boris Force One. Nice bit of none to subtle PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 On 8/9/2020 at 6:52 PM, junglierating said: Given that half the 45s are in refit and out of the remaining 13 type 23s (all of which are old and do sterling service) at least a third of those are in bit. You tell me where the RN is .....up a creek without a paddle.Fair one on the crabs on a PR opportunity....at least most their aircraft arent 21+ years old . Well, HMS Defender was off the Cornish coast last Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) Yep and I was on DRAGON last week and DIAMOND was on the north west wall....so that's half .. the other half are in refit/repair .What's your point ....not much flesh on the bone was mine Edited August 11, 2020 by junglierating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 And clearly another press release. What’s with being all shouty about the Poseidon? Feels like someone is trying to get it exposure https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53754245 and it’s part of a “fleet” of nine. Sounds a bit grand for nine planes. I’d have thought “squadron” more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomprobert Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, JohnT said: And clearly another press release. What’s with being all shouty about the Poseidon? Feels like someone is trying to get it exposure https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53754245 and it’s part of a “fleet” of nine. Sounds a bit grand for nine planes. I’d have thought “squadron” more appropriate. I was down at Dymchurch today on the south Kent coast and saw this beauty. First time I’ve seen an RAF version and boy did she look shiny in the glorious sunshine today. Sadly I didn’t have a camera at hand as she was low and slow and even the wife was impressed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Pulfrew Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 On 8/12/2020 at 7:02 PM, JohnT said: And clearly another press release. What’s with being all shouty about the Poseidon? Feels like someone is trying to get it exposure https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53754245 and it’s part of a “fleet” of nine. Sounds a bit grand for nine planes. I’d have thought “squadron” more appropriate. @JohnT, its a PR thing. The taxpayers have funded some new equipment and this is a way of showing that its in service and delivering. It’s also “soft power” messaging. When it comes to “fleets”, well that seems to be one of the more recent buzzwords in the never ending game of buzzword bingo; everything is a fleet now. As for a “squadron” it’s is more than just a number of aircraft, it’s about the people as well, so Poseidon will have (at least) 2 squadrons, so when 201 reform in a couple of years, fleet does start to become more appropriate (although the traditionalist in me says that’s a “wing” (RAF) not a fleet (RN)) 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truro Model Builder Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 On 8/11/2020 at 11:56 AM, junglierating said: Yep and I was on DRAGON last week and DIAMOND was on the north west wall....so that's half .. the other half are in refit/repair .What's your point ....not much flesh on the bone was mine Didn't have one. Just saying, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglierating Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 57 minutes ago, Truro Model Builder said: Didn't have one. Just saying, that's all. Happy 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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