Eduard masks

[Sunna]

Hi, I have been keen on getting back to making models for a while now and am watching YouTube videos with interest to find out all the techniques that I have access to now that I never had when I was younger. One such technique is the use of masks on aircraft canopies. I use to try to hand paint them free hand with usually pretty poor results. I have an Eduard ME 109 1.48 that I am waiting to build. I bought an Eduard mask to try to make a better job. Can I ask, anyone who has used these masks, would I be better making my own? If so, what is the best way of doing this? is it just a case of scoring a piece of masking tape and cutting to suit? 

[Vlad]

In my opinion pre-cut canopy masks are worth their weight in gold, especially for things like 109s with lots of segments. Eduard's ones are top quality, both in terms of the masking paper they use and the accuracy of the cut shapes (even more so because in your case it's for one of their own kits).

 

Of course you can make them yourself, you have a choice of methods:

• measure or trace the shapes, then draw onto the masking tape and cut
• place the tape on the canopy and cut "in situ" carefully along the frame lines
• cut masking tape into lots of strips and squares and build it up slowly
• etc.

But it's a lot of time and effort when you can get something that is sized to the exact kit you're building. If cost is an issue, you can usually find vinyl masks that are significantly cheaper than Eduard's yellow tape ones. They are a little bit tricker to work with but generally very effective and, as I said, cheaper.

[neilh]

Depends upon your skill with a craft knife!  Eduard ( and other) masks are computer designed to fit perfectly without any risk of putting a sharp object near a ( possibly) difficult to replace clear part.  I have used mask from Eduard, Montex, Peewit, EZ Mask to name but a few and rarely have I found one that the masking panel does not fit the frame. Eduard masks can be more expensive that other brands and in my opinion are getting a bit " too" expensive nowadays. Having said that, I have scratched a canopy with a knife blade more than once when trying to mask it myself with tape so its down to the individual risk v skill.  Flat panels such as maybe something like a WWII Ju 88 are easier to mask yourself in my experience that curved panels like a Hurricane windscreen.

[Seawinder]

58 minutes ago, Sunna said:

Hi, I have been keen on getting back to making models for a while now and am watching YouTube videos with interest to find out all the techniques that I have access to now that I never had when I was younger. One such technique is the use of masks on aircraft canopies. I use to try to hand paint them free hand with usually pretty poor results. I have an Eduard ME 109 1.48 that I am waiting to build. I bought an Eduard mask to try to make a better job. Can I ask, anyone who has used these masks, would I be better making my own? If so, what is the best way of doing this? is it just a case of scoring a piece of masking tape and cutting to suit? 

If you already bought the mask set, why wouldn't you use it? For my part, if there's a commercial masking set available (including and usually Eduard), I'll go for it. I've got my own procedure for masking canopies using Scotch Tape and an X-acto knife, but I'm happy to avoid it if possible. Eduard masks generally fit quite-to-very well, and they're flexible/stretchable enough to be made to fit if on occasion they're slightly over- or undersized.

[fubar57]

For most Japanese and Luftwaffe multi-panel canopies I am now switching over to Eduard masks as it greatly reduces time and frustration. Having said that, there was frustration o'plenty using Eduard masks on two recently completed Hasegawa 1:48 A6M5 Zeros. I kept checking the packaging to make sure I hadn't accidentally bought a Tamiya mask or the wrong Zero model. It was only after I had completed the masking that I noticed on the instruction sheet that the clear parts were numbered G1, G2 and G3. My parts were listed as G4, G5 and G6. Odd says I. I head over to Scalemates and see that my kit is a 1995 rebox of the original 1982 kit with parts  G4, G5 and G6. We go to 2012 and find new clear parts G1, G2 and G3 have now been added. Odd about the part numbering sequence and would have been nice if this was mentioned by Eduard as there are 29 reboxings of the kit between the original and the 2012 offering that the masks probably won't fit properly. Having said all that, I simply lined up the complex curves and added Tamiya tape to the straight edges

[alt-92]

Can't really blame Eduard too much for not listing exhaustively every minor rebox/reissue Hasegawa does

The instruction sheet would be 2 feet long then!

[Werdna]

1 hour ago, Sunna said:

Hi, I have been keen on getting back to making models for a while now and am watching YouTube videos with interest to find out all the techniques that I have access to now that I never had when I was younger. One such technique is the use of masks on aircraft canopies. I use to try to hand paint them free hand with usually pretty poor results. I have an Eduard ME 109 1.48 that I am waiting to build. I bought an Eduard mask to try to make a better job. Can I ask, anyone who has used these masks, would I be better making my own? If so, what is the best way of doing this? is it just a case of scoring a piece of masking tape and cutting to suit? 

I have made my own on one occasion, which is why I wouldn't do it again  To me, modelling is not about cutting up bits of sticky paper into awkward shapes - so I'd happily pay someone else (like Eduard or Montex, for eg) to do that for me.

[Rolls-Royce]

There's another option, and that is the various liquid masks. You do have to make sure that the surface being covered is clean to enable the masking fluid to stick, and you have to let it dry sufficiently before painting the part. But I used Microscale's Micro Mask for years, and recently began using precut masks. Both methods can work equally well.

[Chuck1945]

It took me several years to actually try the masks, but after a bit of experience (they pretty much need to be placed exactly the first time), I will used the pre-cut masks whenever possible 

[Space Ranger]

In the Dark Ages of Modelling, when all we had was balsa wood for conversions, and plunge-molding our own canopies from sheet acetate was a required skill, I masked many a canopy with Scotch® tape trimmed with a new X-acto® blade. A liquid masker was sometimes applied when the tape wouldn't stick for various reasons. The canopy frames were brush-painted, and I never had an issue. I still prefer to mask them this way, but now I paint with an airbrush, and the Scotch® tape has been replaced with Tamiya masking tape or similar. Never an issue.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Space Ranger

[Vlad]

4 hours ago, Rolls-Royce said:

There's another option, and that is the various liquid masks.

How do you put on the liquid mask so it gives a sharp edge exactly at the frame demarcation? Or do you trim it after it's dry?

 

On an unrelated note, I have recently seen a video of a technique that freehand paints the frames, going slightly over (eek!), then uses a toothpick to scrape excess paint off, back up to the frame edge to return the sharpness to the demarcation. It actually worked really well for the guy, I was amazed, but I don't have the heart to try it.

[Space Ranger]

Brush the liquid mask over the entire transparency, allow it to dry, then trim it along the frame edges. Another option is to use thin strips of masking tape along the frame edges, then fill in the center with liquid mask, overlapping the interior edge of the tape.

 

The scraping-with-toothpick method works. I've done it. It's a great way to remove any overspray if the paint happens to seep under the edge of the tape.

 

Transparencies with engraved edges to the frames can be carefully handpainted. The engravings will serve as a barrier.

 

One thing to remember is, once the canopy is masked, to paint the frames with the interior color first and allow it to thoroughly dry before painting the exterior color.

[Rolls-Royce]

4 hours ago, Vlad said:

How do you put on the liquid mask so it gives a sharp edge exactly at the frame demarcation? Or do you trim it after it's dry?

 

On an unrelated note, I have recently seen a video of a technique that freehand paints the frames, going slightly over (eek!), then uses a toothpick to scrape excess paint off, back up to the frame edge to return the sharpness to the demarcation. It actually worked really well for the guy, I was amazed, but I don't have the heart to try it.

I flood it up to the raised edge of the framework, then use the toothpick trick while the masking is wet to clean up the edge.

 

I have also (mostly) done the freehand painting, trying not to go over but using a toothpick - cut on an angle - to clean up before the paint completely dries.

[Ed Russell]

One warning about masks. There is a company called P-Mask who apparently boil up a home made backyard glue for each set of masks with variable results.

Sometimes you get a result like Post 22 here

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235066779-ju87b-2-wnr-0406-yugoslav-captured-finished/

 

 

Note that this was (inadvertently) a controlled trial under identical conditions - P-Mask compared to Eduard. The Eduard ones were fine.

The only use for P-Masks is to stick them on a piece of Tamiya tape, cut around the edge and use the  two layer result as your mask.

If there's another brand available - buy it instead.............

[lasermonkey]

I resisted Eduard masks for ages, thinking they were overpriced for what they are. For some reason, I decided to try them out on the Airfix 1/72 Lightning I did a couple of years ago. While they certainly require a bit of a technique, I found them so much easier and less stressful, especially when there's lots of curves, that I always stump up for a set now. I tend to wince a little when parting with the money, but never when I'm actually using them!

 

I used a set of Peewit masks on my recently completed Blenheim and my impression was that they weren't quite as accurately cut as the Eduard masks and I had the edges curl up, despite giving them a good rub down. Even though I used enamel paints (Colourcoats) I was able to use a toothpick dipped in lighter fluid to clean up the overspray with very little effort.

[Werdna]

6 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

The only use for P-Masks is to stick them on a piece of Tamiya tape, cut around the edge and use the  two layer result as your mask.

If there's another brand available - buy it instead.............

I've used P-Masks a couple of times without any issues.  There's clearly some kind of weird chemical reaction going on in those pics, but I can only say that when I've used them, they've been fine..

[ckw]

How long did you leave the P-masks on for? I have found some masking materials do not like being left on for a prolonged period - the glue seems to set to the surface and detaches from the tape on removal. This could explain people's different experience. I notice on my roll of washi tape it says to remove within 14 days.

 

Personally I tend to use very thin strips of Tamiya tape to mask around the edges - cut in thin strips you can conform to curves - and then fill in with Mr Masking Sol-R. I have used pre-cut masks on occasion (when supplied with the kit) but don't find them that big a time saver - certainly not worth the extra cost. Ironically, on complex glazing with many small panes I actually find my method easier than fiddling around with dozens of tiny masks.

 

The tooth pick method works up to a point - I do this for cleanup if necessary, cutting the toothpick to a chisel edge. 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Ed Russell]

6 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

a home made backyard glue for each set of masks with variable results.

may be the reason. Obviously no quality control.

 

1 minute ago, ckw said:

How long did you leave the P-masks on for?

24 hours - group build so no mucking around! Read the full article and you will see the Eduard masks were treated identically with no problem.

[Ray_W]

I'm with everyone else in terms of the positives about Eduard masks and will use them when available. It's a nice addition to the hobby and worth the money. However, I'm also not tied to them in that if I need to do my own masking I will. Occasionally the after-market mask will not achieve the effect I want or is incorrect. I found that recently with the 1/48 Airfix Ju-87 B canopy. A perfect candidate for aftermarket masking. The Airfix canopy moulding is what I would describe as bulbous with thick frames. I was not happy with the Eduard mask positions. After painting inside (internal framing) and outside I stripped it and redid with my own masks. I widened the framing slightly (to hide the bulbous side panels and thick framing) and redid the internal masking  (to correct). The result was more pleasing. Not perfect. As finished following. This is very much the exception though.

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Sunna said:

Can I ask, anyone who has used these masks, would I be better making my own?

In direct response, nearly always better to use the Eduard mask if available and definitely use it if you already have it. Although, I do feel making your own is an important skill to learn just not a subject when you already have the mask.

 

19 hours ago, Sunna said:

If so, what is the best way of doing this? 

No best in my view. Many ways to do this. If you search the Net or just Britmodeller you will find a variety of techniques. Each with its own merit. I have just settled on thin strips of Tamiya (Kabuki) tape (1 mm approximately) laid down inside the framing. I then blank with more tape or masking agent (currently using Gunze Mr Masking Sol neo) the gap. Work for me. I use a different technique if I have sanded off the framework and have no guideline. 

 

19 hours ago, Sunna said:

is it just a case of scoring a piece of masking tape and cutting to suit? 

Well in my case, yes.

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sunna]

I have stuck the Eduard mask on the canopy and to be honest, it was hard enough getting it lined up perfectly so I very much doubt I will be trying to make my own in the future. I definitely need glasses!

[lasermonkey]

In my experience, a headband magnifier such as the Optivisor is essential when doing any masking. You have to be very precise, as I'm sure you have discovered. 

 

Cheers,

Mark.

[Werdna]

38 minutes ago, Sunna said:

I have stuck the Eduard mask on the canopy and to be honest, it was hard enough getting it lined up perfectly so I very much doubt I will be trying to make my own in the future. I definitely need glasses!

It does get easier, the more you use them.  Also, as lasermonkey says above, using some kind of magnification really helps..

[Sunna]

Cheers guys, yeah I am learning that my eyes are poorer now. I have denied it for years but when trying to do very small photo etch or indeed these masks, some kind of magnification and lighting is essential.I can get by in most instances without glasses. I can read newspapers, books etc. but when it comes to micro surgery, I need help. I have ordered a hands free illuminated magnifying table type thing and the glasses will be on the to get list.

[fubar57]

7 hours ago, Sunna said:

I have stuck the Eduard mask on the canopy and to be honest, it was hard enough getting it lined up perfectly so I very much doubt I will be trying to make my own in the future. I definitely need glasses!

I use an optivisor and still struggle, Some times 5 or more tries until I get it right. HOWEVER.....it still a better option than me cutting thin strips of Tamiya tape. Even after 5 or more re-applications of a piece, I have never experienced paint bleeding under. They still stick like scared limpets to a rock

[Space Ranger]

Another technique is to first cover the frames with fine strips of tape, then apply liquid mask to the clear panes up to the edge of the tape and slightly overlapping it. When the liquid mask is dry, use a sharp blade to cut along the edges of the tape and remove it, exposing the frames. Spray the interior color and allow it to dry, then spray the exterior color. If you're going to apply a clear gloss or flat, leave the liquid mask on until all clear coats are sprayed and dry.

 

Instead of trying to cut thin strips of masking tape. I suggest the use of Aizu Micron masking tape. It's a Kabuki tape like Tamiya's, but available pre-cut in six different widths, from 0.4 mm to 2.5 mm. I use them either singly or in combination to mask frames, with liquid mask to cover any seam between abutting strips. Here's a UK source: https://www.premiumhobbies.co.uk/masking/aizu-micron-masking-tape-bundle

 

One thing to note is that most liquid masks contain ammonia, which will remove Future. So if you like to dip your canopies in Future (or whatever they're calling it this week) prior to painting, be warned.