C-29A Combat Flight Inspection Aircraft

[Nigel Bunker]

I intend to build one of these by converting the Sword U-125A kit. From the pictures I have found, they were in 3 colour camouflage. Now I have found port and starboard side pictures, which gives me the fuselage camouflage pattern, but I don't have any for the wings and tailplane. Does anybody have these, or can they point me towards where they might be found?

 

Also, can anybody confirm the three colours? I think they are 34079 green,  34092 green and 36118 grey but being colourblind, I'd like them confirmed before I start applying paint to model.

[Murph]

They used the Euro One paint scheme with Green FS #34092, Green FS #34102, and Gray FS # FS 36081.  BTW, Wolfpak Decals covered one of these on sheet 34.  LINK  They are sold out, but Fantasy Printshop (who does their decal printing) still has some in stock.  Another LINK

 

Regards,

Murph

[Giorgio N]

2 hours ago, Murph said:

They used the Euro One paint scheme with Green FS #34092, Green FS #34102, and Gray FS # FS 36081.  BTW, Wolfpak Decals covered one of these on sheet 34.  LINK  They are sold out, but Fantasy Printshop (who does their decal printing) still has some in stock.  Another LINK

 

Regards,

Murph

 

Are you sure about the 36081 grey ? Generally transport and communication types used the lighter variant of the scheme with 36118.

Have to say that none of the pictures I've seen of these aircraft seems to show the correct Europe 1 colours, dark or light.. or better, the darker green always looked very dark to me and not really like 34092. I often wondered if they were painted with the proper US colours or with something else

[Nigel Bunker]

Thank you Murph and Georgio. I have ordered the decals from Fantasy Print Shop and once they arrive I'll take it from there. I thought the grey looked like 36118 but combining the colour correction on a PC screen along with my colourblindness, the chances of me getting the colour right right are approaching zero, if not less than that.

[scotthldr]

If it was my build I would be inclined to go 

FS34064, 34079, 36118. Maybe not the colours that are assumed, but the Dark Green is certainly not 34092.

 

http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=34064+34079+36118

 

https://gramho.com/media/2157035890583981041

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jabba]

I have got the Wolfpak sheet in my sticky mits and the colours it states are:-

 

Euro Green FS34092.

Med Green FS34102.

Gunship Grey FS36118.

 

Hope that this is of some help.

[e8n2]

10 hours ago, scotthldr said:

If it was my build I would be inclined to go 

FS34064, 34079, 36118. Maybe not the colours that are assumed, but the Dark Green is certainly not 34092.

The Euro 1 colors tended to fade and change shades over time.  In other words, they didn't weather very well.  Some other threads on this forum have photos where you can see that some areas of 34092 were touched up and they didn't look anything like the same color as they should have.  Even the current AMC gray, 36173, will fade and weather and turn lighter over time.

Later,

Dave

[scotthldr]

Maybe so , but you can see in the linked picture above that the aircraft isn’t displaying any signs of weathering as all 3 colours are uniform across the entire  fuselage and tail, with the darkest Green being too dark to be 34092 so it’s not a case of fading over time:

Edited August 4, 2020 by scotthldr

[XV571]

My first thought when looking at the picture in Scott's post was that the greens were 34079 & 34102. When I took a look in the 1994 issue of T.O. 1-1-4 to see if there was anything I found this figure for the T-39:

 

Although there's almost certainly a specific set of engineering drawings that have been created for the aircraft (which won't be publically available), given the similar sizes of the two aircraft and the layout of the colours I'd think it's possible this diagram forms the basis of the C-29 scheme.

 

HTH

 

Jonathan

[Robertone139]

Disregard

Edited August 5, 2020 by Robertone139

[e8n2]

9 hours ago, XV571 said:

Although there's almost certainly a specific set of engineering drawings that have been created for the aircraft (which won't be publically available), given the similar sizes of the two aircraft and the layout of the colours I'd think it's possible this diagram forms the basis of the C-29 scheme.

 

HTH

 

Jonathan

If you look at the scheme in the photo he has linked above, you will notice that the pattern is not the same.  They came up with a specific pattern for the C-29, but it never made it into 1-1-4 before it was discontinued.  F-16s never made it into 1-1-4 either except for the original set of tactical tail codes in the back of the TO.  As far as the colors used in the linked photo, either the contractor used the wrong colors, or Wolfpak got the colors wrong although they are generally very good about their marking information.

Later,

Dave

[scotthldr]

 I believe these a/c were painted in the UK by BAe or their nominated contractor, so every possibility they didn’t use FS codes. 
 

When you compare photos of the C-29 with those of the similar schemed T-39 and C-140 the greens look very different.

[Nigel Bunker]

25 minutes ago, scotthldr said:

I believe these a/c were painted in the UK by BAe or their nominated contractor

That is correct - the HS 125 book by Bill Gunston has a picture of a camouflaged C-29A carrying a UK 'B' registration which means it was being tested or delivered.

 

Also, as in most countries, painting contractors will paint to FS colours, BS colours, RAL colours or any other international standard the customer requires so I think it unlikely they were painted in anything other than FS colours. As  note, it is not unknown for USAF aircraft based in UK to be repainted here - I remember when BAe (or whatever they were named then) got a contract to repaint the F-111s in the UK rather than fly them back to the US..

[CT7567]

I'm not sure if it will shed any light on the question, or obscure things further, but to my eye the Euro I colors seen on the C-29A as linked above are a match for the "incorrect" variant of Euro I seen on a number of C-5 transports in the same era.  I've never researched this in enough detail to confirm the "wrong" green colors used in that scheme, but the gray is definitely FS36118 per the contemporary MAC scheme (not 36081 or a faded version of that color).

 

There's a discussion of the C-5 scheme here:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/29088-lockheed-c-5b-camouflage-scheme/

[Gmat]

It should be listed as a CT-39A as it was redesignated from T-39A during the Carter administration,I recall. This aircraft flew for the flight check inspection of air traffic control with the AF Communications Service. 1866thFCS.  They also used the C-140A which also later were in the Euro1 scheme. Done with my iPad, so can’t check about the Carter comment. 

[Dana Bell]

Hi guys,

 

The problem with colors comes from the US government's General Services Administration (GSA) - the old owners of the FS595 color standards.  While we all assumed that three colors that differed only in gloss (a change in the first digit between 1, 2, or 3), FS595 and FS595a never made that assumption.  MAC accepted its Euro I colors based on FS595a.  In the meantime, a bureaucrat at GSA decided that in FS595b the colors would match - this without consulting with the folks that had to use all that paint.

 

The USAF's main suppliers of gunship-quality paints were Deft and DeSoto - one company matched their colors to 595a, while the other matched them to 595b.  With subcontractors painting different parts of the aircraft with paints from different suppliers, you could end up with C-5s and C-141s looking like patchwork quilts.

 

I suspect the C-29 colors, while all from a single supplying, weren't what we were used to seeing.  It kind of puts a damper on model paints matched to FS595 colors...

 

As a note - I photographed C-5s at Dover and 141s at McGuire when all this was going on, and I still don't know which of the color variations was what MAC had intended!

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

Dana

[CT7567]

Thanks for the background, Dana. If I'm understanding correctly, you're confirming that prior to FS595b there were some colors with a noticeable difference in hue (vs simply gloss/semigloss/matte finish) for the same 4-digit codes - e.g. FS16440 would be a different color, not just a gloss version of 36440 matte light gull gray?

 

What puzzles me as it relates to the current discussion is that, at least as of FS595b, there is only a matte x4092 series color, no gloss or semigloss equivalent (or non-equivalent).  Was there a 14092 and/or 24092 in earlier editions that were deleted in 595b?

 

Also, since 34092, and specifically 34092 as applied to certain transport types, seems to be the main source of deviation here, I also would've expected to see the same kind of variation in colors (not just patterns) on the A-10 as the only "tactical" type that wore 34092.  I may be reading too much into your comments, but it seems that the widely varying colors as a "typical" anomaly was exclusive to MAC types?

 

For the record, for those who might not follow the discrepancy being discussed, the photo below shows a C-5A with a replacement wing center section.  The standard color scheme is FS34092 (dark green) 34102 (light green) and 36118 (gray).  Based on the FS595b chips I have (which match the ones in @Dana Bell's book USAF Colors & Markings in the 1990s) the overall colors match the standard, but the dark green on the wing (installed as a separate subassembly) seems to be a significantly darker green. As noted in my post above, this darker green color seems to match the version of 34092 used on the C-29A, as well as newly manufactured C-5Bs for which the airframe colors matched the wing assembly.

[e8n2]

It looks to be an A model that got a new wing box.  The darker shade seems to pretty much follow the area where the new wing boxes were installed.

Later,

Dave

[scotthldr]

At the end of the day paint what you see not what a system with so many discrepancies tells you, it will also depend on the colours used on the decal sheet as well.

[Blimpyboy]

 

They don't really add much to the 'which colour' discussion, but they are nice pictures of a slick-lookin' bird:

 

 

 

 

 

But, not as pretty as:

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Blimpyboy