Spitfire 1a R6691 PR-J * Flt Lt F J Howell 609 Sqn * Airfix 1/24 - Weathering at last

[Johnson]

Thanks Chris, it's good to be back on the Spit.

 

21 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

Look forward to seeing some paint go on.

 

Same here, if a bit nervous!

 

Cheers,

[bigbadbadge]

2 minutes ago, Johnson said:

Thanks Chris, it's good to be back on the Spit.

 

 

Same here, if a bit nervous!

 

Cheers,

It will be fine fella, are you brush painting ???

[Johnson]

4 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

are you brush painting ???

 

Airbrush. I don't think I have the skill or nerve to brush paint these days, something I've lost!

 

I'm an Xtracolor paint user, but for this I've invested in some Sovereign Hobbies Colourcoats enamels.

[bigbadbadge]

Excellent, I have yet to try the Colourcoates yet, I brush paint and have my preferred Humbrol enamels.   

Chris

[geedubelyer]

Hi and good to see you back on your big Spit Charlie. 

 

Nice work on the wingtip lights. 

You got me thinking, do you think it might be possible to use a cylinder of clear sprue of the correct diameter in place of the solid plastic cylinder? 🤔

I wondered if the sprue was rounded at the end it might be possible to colour it then mask it to spray cammo over it? 

What do you think?

 

Nice work enhancing the radiators and carb intake. That sort of attention to detail is sure to pay dividends in the long run. 

 

Keep at it. 

Cheers

[Peter Roberts]

Great to see this one dusted off Johnson! Following again with great interest.

[Biggles87]

I seem to have missed this ‘til now so I’ll now go back to the beginning and read it properly.

 

John

[Johnson]

2 hours ago, geedubelyer said:

Hi and good to see you back on your big Spit Charlie.

Thanks gb! 

 

2 hours ago, geedubelyer said:

You got me thinking, do you think it might be possible to use a cylinder of clear sprue of the correct diameter in place of the solid plastic cylinder? 🤔

I wondered if the sprue was rounded at the end it might be possible to colour it then mask it to spray cammo over it? 

What do you think?

I hadn't considered that, and its a good suggestion. But having glued the plastic cylinder in (it's hollow, but that may not show in the photo) I will go with what I have for now, I'm confident that I can create a clear light cover for the end, which is pretty much the way the real thing is.

 

1 hour ago, Peter Roberts said:

Great to see this one dusted off Johnson! Following again with great interest.

 

Cheers Peter, good to be back. Took a while to adjust back to 1/24 after the Heller kits in 1/72. I keep hitting the lights with the Spitfire wings!

 

1 hour ago, Biggles87 said:

I seem to have missed this ‘til now so I’ll now go back to the beginning and read it properly.

Welcome aboard John, it's a bit of a saga!

[Biggles87]

OK I’ve caught up now.

What a great job you’ve done with this old kit. I like the way you’ve boxed in the wheel wells ( can you ‘ box in ‘ a circular aperture? ) with the bracing behind it, when I  updated mine many years ago I just used the thinnest Plasticard I had wound around a piece of dowel and soaked in hot water to try to keep the shape, it sort of worked but did eventually distort because it came away from the upper wing.

I like the extra detail in the cockpit, the landing lamp control under the left side of the IP is something that most manufactures miss although it was a prominent item on early Spitfires.

I had several of the Waldron cockpit sets, but all in 1/32, and I still use the Cross and Scarborough book for reference.

I won’t comment on the harness issue, I think it’s been thoroughly covered elsewhere.

Looking forward to the paint

 

John

[Johnson]

Thanks John, as you saw, I enjoyed myself in the cockpit!

 

The more I work on it and check it against photos and references the more impressed I am with the job Airfix did. It was well researched and regarded as accurate in it's day and I think it has stood the test of time well. I'm even getting used to the quite heavy rivet detail though some of the panel lines really are a bit trench like and I will try to reduce them slightly with some thick (500) Mr Surfacer primer.

 

1 hour ago, Biggles87 said:

I won’t comment on the harness issue, I think it’s been thoroughly covered elsewhere

 

Having already removed and refitted the top parts of the harness I'm still not happy with it. I got mixed up with the two sets of straps, the Y strap should (in my opinion, but it is a hotly argued point of contention) go down through the seat slot. So I've bought another set of Eduard's straps, I thought I'd better get them while available with the current import problems. I see Hannants are out of stock again.

 

I also bought the HGW fabric set and although the dark colour is better than Eduard's, I don't like the HGW 'dotty' printing, the Eduard printing with it's cross stitch is much better, if a bit light. And having looked at the photos and diagrams, I think that the Eduard set is more accurate. The HGW set can go in the box of an even older 1/24 Spitfire Mk.1 in the stash, molded in grotty hard white plastic.

 

 

 

 

Have you seen the BM thread on Sutton Harness Confusion? Worth a read.

 

But I've got the straps wrong in my cockpit and they will have to be changed at some point. Probably a bit later as I'm focused on getting the paint on.

 

Cheers,

[Biggles87]

I think the routing of the ' Y ' strap depends on the material the seat was constructed from. The early seats were metal ( you probably know this already so forgive me if I'm teaching my granny etc. ) but when they changed to ' plastic ' ones the routing could have changed,  but as I said it's been discussed before, particularly by the late Edgar Brookes who, for me, will always be ' Mr. Spitfire '. 

 

John

[Ray_W]

26 minutes ago, Johnson said:

the Eduard printing with it's cross stitch is much better, if a bit light

 

Hi Charlie,

Use a little wash on the Eduard belts and I think they come up very nice. I use Brown Tamiya Panel Line Accent Colour, which also dries with a matt finish and can easily be adjusted with the usual Q-Tip or a brush slightly moist with odourless thinners or naptha to tone them down a little and give some shading effects and depth.  

Ray

[Johnson]

Hi Folks,

Before I get too excited about the prospect of getting some paint on, still some basic tasks to finish, like fitting the radiators. Not as simple as I'd hoped. As with so many aspects of this kit, what Airfix provide is OK but needs quite a lot of adjustment to get a decent fit. The bases of both radiators, and the carb inlet were all very thick and needed a lot of sanding to get them flush (but not completely as, if you look on the real thing, there is the thickness of the metal of the overlapping radiator lip where it is riveted to the wing, but not a lot I grant). And the main radiator fits to the wing in the complex curved area where the wing joins the fuselage (the gull-wing bit), again, more adjustment to the profile of the radiator base was needed and I had to glue it in stages, first one corner, then another, feeding in Tamiya Extra Thin and clamping as I went.

 

 

 

The hole in the carb area was cut so I could poke something in to get the fuel filler lined up correctly in it's hole. Naturally it kept dropping into the fuselage and luckily didn't get stuck!

 

Back soon, maybe with some paint .

 

Cheers,

[bigbadbadge]

Great job Charlie this is going to be a cracking model when complete. 

Chris

[Johnson]

Thanks Chris!

 

2 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

this is going to be a cracking model when complete

 

God, I hope so. I don't think any model I've ever made has lasted this long or had so much time invested in it. I'm fairly confident I can do the paint, but a bit worried about the Squadron markings as they rely on Montex vinyl masks which I've fallen foul of before, that was on a Phantom canopy (I threw the masks away!) I'm wondering how the masks will cope with such a heavily riveted surface. We'll see!

[Johnson]

I thought I was ready to start painting and then I looked again at the wings, or more precisely the leading edges and the 8 machine gun ports. Frankly they were a complete mess. The holes were too large, misshaped, misaligned top and bottom. What size should they be, and were they even in the right place? I could have just covered them in doped linen (red painted Tamiya tape or similar) but I want the option of having them open, post flight / fight, as it were.

 

Luckily Britmodeller isn't short of people more knowledgeable than me and I put a post asking for advice on the correct size in the WW2 Aircraft Forum. The result was outstanding and I'm yet again much in debt to those who helped - @JackG, @Ray_W, @Graham Boak, @BS_w, @JohnT. Many thanks!

 

In the end I completely filled the holes with CA Glue/talc mix and re-drilled the holes, and as Bob @gingerbob suggested, starting with a pin-hole ( - see edit note!) in what I judged was the right place and enlarged the holes with successively larger drill bits until I reached 2.5mm, the size of the MG port. The advantage of the CA/talc mix is that it's a bit harder than my normal Humbrol filler and the drill bit is less prone to being forced off track by the surrounding plastic of the wing.

 

 

And now for some paint!

 

Cheers,

Edited February 16, 2021 by Johnson
I used the term 'pin-pr*ck', which was immediately changed to 'pin-gentleman's parts' Obviously not PC!

[bigbadbadge]

Looking very impressive Charlie.  The work on the gun ports was definitely worth it. Greatcstuff CA and Talc. Scribes well too.

Loved the Edit explanation,  that's funny. 

Chris 

[JohnT]

Oh well done there.  That does look to be a huge improvement on the kit.

 

Ive not tried the CA and talc trick myself.  I do recall the balsa - shape and sand and coat with dope and talc to make a BP Defiant target tug conversion in 1960'something or other.  What proportion of CA to talc did you find works best?

[bigbadbadge]

I hope Charlie won't mind, he has used it to good effect here.  I just put some CA in a beer bottle lid, not too much, as the more talc you add the quicker it dries. I gently add talc and mix so it is quite thick and apply , it is as simple as that for me, if you need to add to a wing to fuselage joint it would be better thinner  but, if you want to apply to build up a bit missing from a wingrip for example, thicker would be better.  It sands well and takes a scriber too, a great filler.

Hope this helps

Chris

[Johnson]

10 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

I hope Charlie won't mind, he has used it to good effect here.

Absolutely not Chris!

 

Everything Chris says is spot-on. I mix my CA/talc filler slightly differently, a small pinch of talc (Johnson's Baby Powder, retrieved from the garage where it was used for tyre/innertube fitting and originally stolen from the kids nursery - they're 35 and 36 now! I suppose Mrs J's perfumed talc would be just as good). Anyway, as I was saying, I put a small pinch in a plastic lid and add as much CA to one side as I think I'll need. Then, using a cocktail stick (will I get in trouble using that term? ) I mix the talc into the CA until I get a slightly creamy but still runny mix. It needs to be thick enough to be able to lift with the stick, but runny enough to flow where it's needed. It's a bit trial and error really.

 

H&S thought... I do wonder about the risks of sanding it down and I'm getting more prone to using a good quality mask/dust filter. This goes for all types of sanding now; filler, plastic and resin. The older I get, the more H&S conscious I've become, something to do with wanting to live long enough to reduce the stash! It's probably too late for me, but something to consider.

 

Cheers,

[Ray_W]

Great result with those gun ports Charlie, so much better and also using my favourite filler - CA/Talc. 

 

I find that if I use a Gel CA you get more working time without substantially increasing curing time. I have even used the Stanley Brush Applicator CA for an even more extended curing time and then liquid CA for rapid set or to do the "salt and pepper technique" i.e. add CA and then sprinkle with talc. Different brands, different characteristics which you can use.  I mix it on a piece of cut up shiny coated cardboard box or card. 

 

 

 

 

 

If I look back over my modelling career (not on the catwalk) the three game changers (other than BM of course) were Tamiya Extra Thin, airbrush and CA/talc.

 

Ray

[224 Peter]

Thanks to everyone for the advice on the gun ports. Now I know I can fill the ports before joining the wing halves... 

 

I agree with Raw W, the three gamechangers are spot on, 100%! 

 

[Johnson]

I use a very similar method Ray, not tried the Stanley Brush yet, will have to add it to my chemical store.

 

50 minutes ago, 224 Peter said:

I agree with Raw W, the three gamechangers are spot on, 100%! 

 

 

Completely agree! I only discovered CA/talc through BM in the last year, and it's very useful.

 

Now waiting on a window of opportunity (literally) to prime the Spitfire. Spraying that much Mr Surfacer / Levelling thinner is going to stink the house out. Outdoors is out of the question. I'm very lucky, Mrs J. is fairly relaxed about glue, enamel spraying (in moderation) but quite rightly draws the line at some of the more potent solvents.

[Johnson]

Perusing the shelves of a well known model supplier in Lowestoft, I came across this useful set of decals for a 1/24 Spitfire:

 

 

My experience of Techmod decals is that they are very, very thin, nicely printed but stick like super-glue instantly, and then have a tendency to disintegrate when you try to move them. Someone did post a solution on BM to this stick and disintegrate problem, but damned if I can find it again. (Edit - Google searching for 'Techmod Britmodeller' got me this, use lots of water!)

 

Being a more recent Airfix boxing of the 1/24 Mk.1, it came with excellent looking decals, with a good supply of stencils (or they look excellent. I haven't actually tried them yet, but I've been very impressed by their recent decals). But they didn't include the important white stencil;

 

WT or BALLAST

&

FIRST AID

 

Which I will need;

 

 

I been pondering how to create this stencil since making white decals is impossible, or at least I haven't found out how yet. Admittedly the Techmod decals will need adjustment (no & between the WT or BALLAST and FIRST AID), but that shouldn't be insurmountable.

 

And then there's all the spare stencils I'll have .   I know, I'll pop them in the box of my other 1/24 Spitfire which, at my current rate of building Airfix 1/24 Spitfires, will be made when I'm 115  !

 

Cheers,

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Johnson
Techmod decals fitting problems and solutions

[Johnson]

Primer on!

 

 

Mr Surfacer 1500 thinned with Mr Color Leveling Thinner 400. A noxious mix for which I use a 3M vapour mask which removes all fumes (windows open too!).

 

The primer serves two purposes. It gives an excellent smooth grey primer surface for subsequent coats of paint and secondly it reveals all the flaws missed I before! The seams imperfectly filled or sanded etc.

 

Putting on the primer also made me think again about the panel lines on the wing fillets. There's a double line that I doubted existed on the real plane;

 

 

The rear line didn't appear to be there on the Spitfire Mk.1 in the IWM film;

 

 

Nor on a very clear photo from the Wingleader Photo Archive Number 1 - Supermarine Spitfire Mk 1 (p41);

 

Photo Copyright Chris Goss. Used with permission. (Many thanks to Simon Parry of Wingleader Books and to Chris Goss for the photo).

 

What the above photo also revealed were some minor errors and omissions by Airfix. The panel along the spine of the fuselage appears to have the rivets on the wrong side of the panel line, and there are two little rows of rivets missing behind the cockpit;

 

 

But on the port side, the rivets are in the right place, above the line where they should be, holding the panel which overlaps from above, and the two shorter lines behind the rear canopy frame are there. I guess someone at Airfix making the mold 50 years ago just overlooked them on the starboard side.

 

Having spent some time looking at the pics on the Britmodeller Spitfire Mk.1 Walkaround, I think I know where Airfix got the idea for these two extra panel lines, and the other strange lines on the wings that I removed early on in the build;

 

 

On K9942 at RAF Cosford you can see what looks like reinforcing strips of metal at the same location, and other places where the screw holes became so enlarged from numerous screwing/unscrewing that they had to add new metal strips to accept the screw. I read somewhere that Airfix researched their 1/24 Spitfire using a museum plane. Possibly it was K9942?

 

These minor glitches aside, I remain very impressed with the accuracy of the Airfix kit. I thought initially that the rivets were OTT but having studied the photos I think they are about right. And they got the flush rivet / domed rivet locations right as well. Superb attention to detail.

 

I managed to fill the rear panel lines. But I'm now wondering whether to add the rivets to the wing fillet panels that are evident in the photo above, and behind the rear canopy. Where do I stop??! 

 

 

Back soon, hopefully with some camouflage paint on.

 

Thanks for looking,