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DAK Panzer IA Identification and References


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Hi guys,

 

I am currently building HobbyBoss Panzer IA. I am going for vehicle number 833 from the 5 Leichte Division. I am trying to figure out the following:

  • Which Panzer IA model was it. 3.Serie La.S, or 4.Serie La.S? And which modifications were present on the vehicle? HobbyBoss instructions suggesting 3.Serie La.S, but I am not so sure about it as some sources on internet suggest it's a late version (although not sure what late version mean exactly). Statistically speaking, the biggest chances are it's 3.Serie La.S with some modifications, like wider glacis hatch, Bosch horn, Notek and Convoy lights, smoke grenade racks, rear armor, etc. but I can't be sure from the references I found.
  • Was it ever painted with RAL 8000? Hoby Boss and other manufacturers are suggesting in their instructions that it was, but the only photo I was able to find, it's painted Dunkelgrau.

 

This is the only photo I was able to find in my references and on the internet:

 

833

 

You can see that there is smoke grenades rack and rear armor but other than that, can't figure out any other modifications. Maybe convoy light, if you increase contrast?

 

Does anybody have any other photo and reference material for this vehicle?

 

Thanks,

Nenad

 

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From a set of photos taken during the parade through Tripoli, 833 in the immediate foreground to  the viewer's left:

 

3167491_6c2b3db1f5670c05569ff11e1609c349

 

The kit was originally produced by Tristar, so HobbyBoss is likely following their lead when it comes to markings.

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tristar-35028-panzer-i-ausf-a--104891

 

 

In the PANZER TRACTS publication on the Panzer I by Jentz,  he has two lists of modifications, those that were introduced during production, and another list implemented by the army after delivery - smoke candles rack are in this second category.  The reference to Serie La.S is more to do with the blocks of production runs, as sometimes modifications could be introduced several months into production.  

 

Since we only have the rear view photo examples,  the best detail of modification to look for are the fuel ports on the engine deck.  The series 4 introduced four of these (previously only one on either side of the deck).  In the photo I linked, it's difficult to say because of the stowage blocking view of where the second fuel port would be.

 

For colour, all 5th Light arrived in Tripoli in dark grey paint.   The introduction of the Tropen Scheme no.1 occurred March 17.  It is not known for certain if these paints (RAL 8000 and RAL 7008) were delivered in time for Rommel's first offensive.      

 

 

regards,

Jack

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Thank you @JackG

 

I am using Panzer Tracts as my main source for tech details. What you mentioned is exactly what I am trying to figure out, first, which series was this vehicle and second, which field modifications were implemented.

 

The photo you shared is actually very helpful. I am quite sure that it's series 3 based on this. Second pair of fuel ports should be visible on this photo (it should be quite close to the first pair, not under the stowage). 

 

Regarding paints, as I know, after initial actions, there were around half of 25 Pz IAs still operational (during May 1941), and there were few of them used until the end of the year when they dissipated from official records, although there is photographic evidence that some of them were still used even after that for non-combat purposes. 

I wonder does Tristar/HobbyBoss had some reference material from the later period, based on the paint scheme proposed.

 

I am not sure if RAL 8000 and RAL 7008 were ever applied on any Pz IAs, not only vehicle 833. There are photos like these:

 

D8nDXeE0dMshd3z7qUWVJY6-JzNKafnYQqkDbW_Pb-U

 

Destroyed_Panzer_I_at_Tobruk_1941

 

2

 

Where it looks like that something lighter was applied over Dunkelgrau, although it may be just dust/send mixed with oil, not RAL 8000.

 

Best,

Nenad

 

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There was mention during the first rush to Tobruk the capture of a British main supply dump on April 6th around the Msus vicinity.

https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=258

 

I never seen a listing of exactly what the DAK found, but if there were any stores of paints, it would be highly likely British paints could of been used on their panzers.   Either Light Stone 61 or Portland Stone 64 were being used on the Caunter scheme during this period.

https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/?v=79cba1185463

 

 

Agreed, the photos do show something lighter was used than RAL 8000:

 

8LLiom3.jpg

 

 

TlsbZTW.jpg

 

 

regards,

Jack

 

 

 

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Thanks @JackG

Interesting! Didn't know about capturing of a British main supply dump. Well this looks like Portland Stone I would say, but it still looks more to me like a sand applied somehow (mixed with oil or patrol).

How do you do this monochrome film simulation? 

 

Best,

Nenad

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Thank you @JackG 

 

I will play around with this. Do you know which films were the most common in this period?

I compared these Pz I photos with some confirmed RAL 8000 painted Tigers and it's definitely way lighter.

 

Best,

Nenad

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Panchromatic and Orthochromatic are the most likely characteristic films for WW2 period.    In the example above I did include Agfa as this is a German film, but it's a more recent modern one so is not really correct to use - at least I don't think it is.

 

You can also apply the blue filter option for either film.  This will make skies near white, while darkening a lot more the yellow spectrum as well as red.

 

regards,

Jack

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  • 4 months later...

Forgot these saved ebay photos, but they do confirm the Notek light and a total of only two fuel covers on the rear deck. 

 

spacer.png

 

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Was looking over my Dragon kit 6289 - a lot of fixes to bring it to DAK standards, least of which is scratch building:

- a pair of covers on the rear vents

- central vent on engine deck

- early style smoke candle rack

 

Detail fixes:

- Idler wheel too large

- return rollers should run slightly 'downhill' front to back

- delete right rear vision port

- add armor strips to superstructure sides

- add Notek and rear convoy light

 

 

regards,

Jack

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On 12/26/2020 at 9:46 PM, JackG said:

Forgot these saved ebay photos, but they do confirm the Notek light and a total of only two fuel covers on the rear deck. 

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

Was looking over my Dragon kit 6289 - a lot of fixes to bring it to DAK standards, least of which is scratch building:

- a pair of covers on the rear vents

- central vent on engine deck

- early style smoke candle rack

 

Detail fixes:

- Idler wheel too large

- return rollers should run slightly 'downhill' front to back

- delete right rear vision port

- add armor strips to superstructure sides

- add Notek and rear convoy light

 

 

regards,

Jack

This is very interesting, never saw these photos. This is real treasure.

 

Which one are you going to build?

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Hello Nenad, right now I'm strongly considering a 2nd Battalion vehicle after seeing a photo that oddly does not have the armoured strip in the superstructure side ( one less detail that requires scratch building):

British-soldiers-examine-a-German-tank-c

 

I've also given some more thought to the early desert paint colour, and came across the pre-war tricolour scheme Buntfarbenanstrich that included an earth yellow.  It's official name was Erdgelb Nr. 17 - so wonder if that may have been delivered to the desert before RAL 8000 was decided upon?

 

regards,

Jack

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Hello Jack,

 

Never saw this photo before. Strange that armored strip is missing, the only other photo with this strip missing is the one at the beginning of this thread where PzIA is towing Stuka.

Regarding early style smoke candle rack, I bough E.T. model PE upgrade kit that includes it (for my Dragon Pz II kit that's still waiting to be built) and it looks very nice.

 

I saw the thread on missing lynx. Finally, someone added repainted 833 photo I was looking for everywhere.

 

Cheers,

Nenad

 

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The armoured reinforcement strip was introduced at the factory possibly latter half (October?) of 1935.   Panzer Tracts has no official documentation about this, and is going by photo evidence only.   It is interesting this detail is not listed as a required modification once vehicles were acquired by the army.

 

The horn too was changed from the long one to the smaller size in late 1935. 

 

So any sightings of these two details in 1941 mean they are very early panzers, possibly 1 and 2 series, but with modifications?

 

 

regards,

Jack

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