Filling 'contour' lines

[Simon Cornes]

I am lucky enough to have a 1/32 TSR2 to assemble but the surface of the printings is like a fine corrugated roof! I have some XTC 3D to apply to it but I haven't tried it yet. I'm assuming that the high points of the 'corrugations' are actually at the correct profile dimension so  whilst I may want to rub down the XTC I don't want to rub down the actual printed material. I wondered if Halfords Hi build primer might have been a better solution to get a smooth surface finish? Any suggestions would be appreciated as I don't want to cock this up!!

Thanks

 

Simon

[Mig Eater]

You can fill the striation lines with any sort of filler, putty or thick primer & then gently sand it down until you're happy. I personally use Mr Surfacer 500 for my prints, I use it to fill any small gaps on my models printed or otherwise.   

XTC 3D is a thinned down two part epoxy resin that you can brush on, it has a high-gloss finish so if you do use it I'd recommend giving it a coat of primer after to help highlight any remaining lines that could be hidden by the glossiness. Note that I've seen a lot of bad reviews of XTC 3D complaining that it's doesn't cure properly & stays sticky for a long time (I think it might be because it's thinned down with less hardener etc). So I'd be weary of using it on a project that you want to paint & weather after, I'd recommend testing it on a bit of old plastic first.  

[Simon Cornes]

Thank you for that. I asked the manufacturer - Lost British Projects (see their Facebook page, some interesting subjects) - and they recommended XTC so that’s what I bought but if I can use something like a Halfords high build aerosol primer and then rub down until the peaks of the ‘contours’ starts to show then that’s closer to my idea of building !
 

I would probably then put a normal Halfords acrylic primer onto the hi build stuff and rub that down in order to pick up any bits that still need hi build to fill ‘dips’

 

Does that sound like a plan?

[Mattlow]

Simon

 

Iain is doing a 1/32 3D printed Andover (One Man Model kit). He has a few approaches that I'm sure you'll find useful for your TSR2...

 

Matt

 

[Simon Cornes]

Thanks Matt, yes I’ve seen and it will be a tremendous model for sure. I’m not sure if all 3-D printed models are as ‘corrugated’! I suspect that it depends on the materials used to manufacture and then the finer the printing, the less preparation before you can actually start building!

 

[ratsmitglied]

On 7/31/2020 at 5:29 AM, Simon Cornes said:

Thanks Matt, yes I’ve seen and it will be a tremendous model for sure. I’m not sure if all 3-D printed models are as ‘corrugated’! I suspect that it depends on the materials used to manufacture and then the finer the printing, the less preparation before you can actually start building!

 

All 3d prints have layer lines, however on resin printers these are usually not noticeable except on areas that are easy to clean up.

FDM prints usually have fairly noticeable layer lines, but yes, the higher resolution you print at the less noticeable they are. Trick is that although Resin printers typically have no problems printing at 0.02-0.05mm layers, most FDM printers can't reliably print any finer than about 0.08mm.
 

 The figure in this post any lines you can see are because of the drybrushing rather than the printer!

[Simon Cornes]

That figure looks tremendous! I wasn’t aware of the difference between FDM and resin printers but, now I would say that my TSR2 is FDM printed with separate Canopies and windscreen framing in resin - which was a bit tacky when received but fully cured (dry) after a morning on a window ledge in sun. At the scale - 1/32 - then a ‘rougher’ print is probably okay but the finer the better - like your figure aught really to be the rule for modelling purposes I would say.

[qn30jEkPz7]

11 hours ago, ratsmitglied said:

most FDM printers can't reliably print any finer than about 0.08mm

I struggle on FDM with anything less than 0.4mm horizontal resolution and 0.16mm vertical. Any finer than that and reliability starts to goes out of the window. 

[ratsmitglied]

59 minutes ago, LostCosmonauts said:

I struggle on FDM with anything less than 0.4mm horizontal resolution and 0.16mm vertical. Any finer than that and reliability starts to goes out of the window. 

I've found the same on the horizontal - you can apparently get better with smaller nozzles, but that's what I have a resin printer for

[Simon Cornes]

I’m afraid I’m a traditional modeller so I’m happy to take advantage of the new technology but I have no idea how to create anything and I suspect the hardware cost exceeds the cost of buying someone else’s product at the moment!!

It doesn’t take a lot before tech-speak might as well be in Outer Mongolian!!

1 minute ago, ratsmitglied said:

I've found the same on the horizontal - you can apparently get better with smaller nozzles, but that's what I have a resin printer for

So you’re saying horses for courses?

[qn30jEkPz7]

3 minutes ago, ratsmitglied said:

you can apparently get better with smaller nozzles, but that's what I have a resin printer for

I've tried the smaller nozzles and the main product was increased extruder wear, failed parts and blocked nozzles. Not worth the effort  and grief. I plan to get a resin printer to complement.

 

3 minutes ago, Simon Cornes said:

So you’re saying horses for courses?

Totally, they are complimentary technologies. 

[ratsmitglied]

I'm more traditional in my base as well - when it comes to 3d modelling I'll do tweaking to get exactly what I want, but not so much sculpting from scratch

 

Definitely horses for courses. As a wargamer the FDM machine is great for terrain and larger items, but for detail the resin is better. It is possible to get excellent details on an FDM machine, but as @LostCosmonauts says, it's not worth the effort to get them to that level of accuracy

Edited August 1, 2020 by ratsmitglied

[qn30jEkPz7]

You can certainly with good tuning and part orientation minimise the impact of the lines. @Simon Cornes if it is RAF jets that you like then here is a typical example below of some parts I made for a 1/72 scale Fairey Large interceptor to F.155 which will take pretty minimal filling and priming. You can see around the cockpit framing where the line width starts to be a struggle to the FDM printer. This'd be a doddle for a resin printer and I'll go back to the base design and add much more detail if I were to print on a resin machine

 

 

[Simon Cornes]

Too small for me at 1/72 but it does look very sharp! I assume that the nose and rear fuselage are both printed vertically?

Is it possible to print in a clear material yet? I assume this would have to be resin, not FDM? But could it be as clear as the more traditional poured resin glazing?

[ratsmitglied]

you can print in clear resin, however to get the clarity you get from injection moulded plastics etc you do have to take a lot more care with the post cure process.  The UV resin does tend to yellow a little bit if the wavelength isn't completely correct. I haven't done too much experimentation with trying to print items in clear except where they are being tinted through inks etc. anyway.

 

There are some places that produce clear filament, but I'm not sure how well they print.

[Simon Cornes]

The current limit of technology eh?

[qn30jEkPz7]

Some do sell stuff claiming to be crystal clear e.g. https://www.3djake.uk/fillamentum/pla-crystal-clear-1?sai=2689&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIn9r-ypv86gIVQ7DtCh19cQqREAQYASABEgIvFfD_BwE but in printing small air voids trapped between layers or bits of airborne dust will scatter light make it difficult to get a really nice transparency. I’d say translucent rather than a true transparency and the quality surface finishes will be critical to getting a nice look.

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by LostCosmonauts

[nheather]

As has already been said, FDM prints suffer from layer lines.  Less of a problem with resin printers because their layer height is much smaller.  But resin printers have a much smaller print area unless you are prepared to spend thousands.

 

There isn’t a magic solution.

 

• Printing in PLA - you can try sanding but it does resist and can be quite onerous - if you value your time you might find it cheaper just to buy a commercial model.  Other than that, you can use a thickish primer to reduce the the appearance - problem is that the layer lines are raised rather than indented, you could do with it the other way round for filling
• Printing in ABS - this is easier to sand but it is still onerous.  There is also a trick where you immerse it in a steam of cellulose thinners in a converted rice steamer.  This melts the lines off and does a reasonable job but may also soften other details.  Also there is the health and safety element.  Also printing in ABS is more difficult than in PLA - it needs higher temperatures and a more stable environment - keep it clear of drafts and other temperature changes.

 

I am interested in resin printers, the size isn’t an issue as I’m mostly in wargaming miniatures, but I’ve already bought two FDM printers, and Anet A8 which was nothing but problems and an Ender 3.  To be honest I have to treat it as a hobby because if I tried to rationalise the cost I simply couldn’t - it would have been much cheaper to go out and buy commercial models of all that I have printed so far.  So I am rather reluctant to buy yet another printer.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

[Mattlow]

1 hour ago, nheather said:

problem is that the layer lines are raised rather than indented

 

@nheather would you not be able to design so the the lines represented the height you desired, which then meant that filling didn't increase the overall size of the object? I have zero experience of printing side of things and how the slicing software works.. so there could be reasons I am not aware of that this wouldn't work...?

 

Matt

[nheather]

11 minutes ago, Mattlow said:

 

@nheather would you not be able to design so the the lines represented the height you desired, which then meant that filling didn't increase the overall size of the object? I have zero experience of printing side of things and how the slicing software works.. so there could be reasons I am not aware of that this wouldn't work...?

 

Matt

Possibly, but for me, it is just a wargaming model so I don’t care if the dimensions aren’t perfect.

 

I think the biggest problem is that the layers are on all the flat surfaces but there is also genuine detail like rivets, tools etc. so filling is not straight-forward.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

[Mattlow]

Yes, I see that it could be a much bigger issue for armour where there are all sorts of lumps and bumps that you'd have to work around....

 

Matt

[nheather]

Also being wargaming pieces, the scale is small, the most common being

 

15mm (1:100)

20mm (1:72)

28mm (1:56)

 

So the layer ridges are ‘large’ and spaces between lumps and bumps tiny so you can’t get a good run up when sanding.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

[ratsmitglied]

On 8/4/2020 at 9:12 PM, nheather said:

 

 

I am interested in resin printers, the size isn’t an issue as I’m mostly in wargaming miniatures, but I’ve already bought two FDM printers, and Anet A8 which was nothing but problems and an Ender 3.  To be honest I have to treat it as a hobby because if I tried to rationalise the cost I simply couldn’t - it would have been much cheaper to go out and buy commercial models of all that I have printed so far.  So I am rather reluctant to buy yet another printer.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

I've been through exactly the same two FDM printers (plus a third), the A8 I just gave away because I couldn't put up with the crap it produced any more

 

Then I bought the Photon because I was looking more into wargaming figures and layer lines really aren't an issue with that.

 

There are also some primers being marketed with the specific claim that they fill layer lines, but I 1) Can't remember the brands and 2) suspect you'll lose some detail.

[nheather]

1 hour ago, ratsmitglied said:

I've been through exactly the same two FDM printers (plus a third), the A8 I just gave away because I couldn't put up with the crap it produced any more

 

Then I bought the Photon because I was looking more into wargaming figures and layer lines really aren't an issue with that.

 

There are also some primers being marketed with the specific claim that they fill layer lines, but I 1) Can't remember the brands and 2) suspect you'll lose some detail.

The photon is an SLA Resin printer is it not.  What do you think of it.

 

I’ve not done much research to date, I watched some videos of the Elegoo Mars and was blown away with what it produced, and how simple it was use (barring the mess of the resin and the cleaning up).

 

I did pick up that there is a new LCD technology which is more reliable - either here now or on the horizon - mono something.

 

Also unlike FDM I couldn’t detect any “this is the one one you must get”, like the A8 in its day (shudder) and the Ender 3 (which I quite like).

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

 

 

[Pouln]

2 hours ago, nheather said:

 

I did pick up that there is a new LCD technology which is more reliable - either here now or on the horizon - mono something

I read the same in conjunction with the Elegoo Saturn. According to the manufacturer, this printer has a monochrome LCD which allows more uv light to pass, therefore shorter layer times and they state that the LCD will live much longer than that of other printers.

 

The Saturn cannot be bought yet. They say it will be available through Amazon in October/November this year.