Costal command Liberator

[EwenS]

Here is the first part for May 1943.

 

31st May 1943

Aircraft are to be split into various classes.

 

Class A aircraft were eventually to be flown by 3 squadrons in 15 Group area, being 53, 59, 120 squadrons. For them the emphasis was on range. The instructions did not affect the GR.I remaining with 120 sqn.

 

For the other 3 Liberator squadrons it was desired to have the flexibility to have them operate either in the 15 Group area, where they would be referred to as Class B, or in the 19 Group area where an ability to defend themselves from other aircraft was of greater importance and they would be referred to as Class C. Those were from 86, 224 and 311 squadrons.  At the end of May 1943, 224 squadron was equipped with Class C aircraft and 86 with Class B aircraft. 311 was about to begin conversion to Liberators. When it did its aircraft generally appeared in Class C fit. All squadrons were to get conversion (bomb bay fuel tanks and turret blanking plates) sets so they could operate as either Class B or Class C.

 

With the Class B aircraft the problem was the variation in fit of the various Liberator aircraft in service, particularly with regard to the fuel tanks fitted. It was also going to take some time for all the squadrons to get sufficient aircraft of the correct Class for their operating area.

 

In all classes the all up weight was not to exceed 60,000lbs. Class A & B aircraft all had total fuel tankage for 2,500 Imp gals for a range of 2,300 nautical miles. Class C had tankage for 1,900 Imp Gals and a range of 1,600 nautical miles. In special circumstances Class A aircraft could be operated with all tanks filled for a range of 2,650 nautical miles but bomb load limited to 1,800 lbs.

 

 

 

Class A

GR.V with ASG or DMS 1000 radars from which self-sealing has been removed from the main wing tanks and which were fitted with auxiliary wing tanks (these are the tanks fitted in the wing outboard of main undercarriage). No bomb bay tanks. Crew 8.

 

Armament limited to 1*0.5” in the nose and 2*0.5” in the waist, each with 500 rounds. Guns removed from tail turret. Mid-upper turret removed. 16 DC (disposable load not to exceed 4,500lbs).

 

Aircraft to be lightened, so no armour to protect from rear. All oxygen fittings to be removed. APU to be removed. Bomb winches to be removed and considered ground equipment.

 

Under De-icing, “Slinger Rings” to be removed. Props to treated with de-icing paste. Only enough de-icing fluid for windscreen (3 gals except in winter).

 

Class B (i)

GR.III with ASV.II from which self-sealing in the main tanks could not be removed and not fitted with auxiliary tanks. 2 bomb bay fuel tanks to be fitted.

8 DC (max disposable load 3,000lbs)

 

Class B (ii)

GR.V with ASG or DMS 1000 radars from which self-sealing in the main tanks could not be removed and in which the auxiliary tanks are fitted but not servicable. 2 bomb bay fuel tanks to be fitted.

8 DC (max disposable load 2,000lbs)

 

Class B (iii)

GR.V with ASG from which the self-sealing in the wing tanks has not been removed and fitted with serviceable auxiliary wing tanks. One bomb bay tank to be fitted.

10 DC (max disposable load 2,500lbs)

 

Class C

GR.III or GR.V fitted with self-sealing main tanks. No auxiliary wing tanks or bomb bay tanks. Potentially convertible to class B as units will hold necessary tanks and turret blanking plates.

 

Full armour, mid-upper turret fitted, nose, waist and tail guns fitted. 16 DC.

 

Conversion from Class C to B

Now for the complicated bit. “B class aircraft will be initially issued with all the items appropriate to Class C, but when operating in the 15 Group area the equipment carried will be identical with that listed in paragraph 2 above” (i.e. as per Class A for guns, armour, oxygen, de-icing bomb winches, APU etc.)

 

I'll post the Nov 1943 bit sometime over the weekend when I get a chance.

[EwenS]

Part 2 for Nov 1943.

 

12th Nov 1943

Cancels instruction of 31 May 1943. Strategic situation has changed so it was decided to re-equip 3 squadrons with Leigh-Light ASAP.

53 had received new LL aircraft.

120 & 224 each had 6 at that point but priority for completion of conversion not decided.

 

As for other squadrons they were to be re-equipped as follows:-

86 – GR.III with ASV.II

59 – GR.V (ASG.I) aircraft in which the mid-upper turret can’t be replaced (reasons not explained but it was a job for SAL)

547 - GR.V (ASG.I) aircraft with a mid-upper turret and GR.V (ASG.III).

311 - GR.V (ASG.III).

 

(EwenS comment - Aircraft with ASG.I or DMS 1000 radars have the Dumbo nose. ASG.III was in a radome in place of the belly turret).

 

The new distinction is between Long Range and Very Long Range. 15 Group squadrons will normally be VLR and 19 Group squadrons LR. 59 & 86 to stay VLR & 120 to get aircraft converted to VLR. Only GR.V and GR.VI are convertible between roles and all conversions to be carried out at Ballykelly.

 

What follows includes references to RPs. At this stage the retractable RP installation is still in development so it refers to the fixed RP outfit. BUT RP equipped aircraft that go to SAL to have the Leigh Light fitted will, on return to squadrons, operate with EITHER the Leigh-Light fitted OR the fixed RP but NOT both.

 

Now for the detail of the weapon fits.

 

LONG RANGE

GR.V or VI. 1,900 nautical mile range at 4,000 feet, on main and auxiliary wing tanks only (but one bomb bay tank to be fitted until wing auxiliaries can be made operational if not already so).

Guns - 1*0.5” in the nose; mid-upper turret to be fitted; 2*0.5” or 2*twin 0.303” in the waist; 4*0.303” in the tail (but one Transatlantic cupola to be held on station for each aircraft suggesting its removal was envisaged in some circumstances).

The remainder of the weapon fit depends on LL/RP fit.

 

No LL and / or fixed RP – 10*250lb DC OR 2*600lb M24 or A/S bomb and 5*250lb DC.

LL – 8*250lb DC

Fixed RP – 8*25lb RP and 5*250lb DC

Retractable RP – no detail, still to be determined.

 

Other points of note:- Mk.III bombsight to be fitted; bomb winches to be removed; 8 crew; DR compass to be fitted; APU to remain installed; all oxygen fittings to be removed; A2 Raft to be replaced by Type H Mk.III dinghy.

To be fitted when available – windscreen wiper for pilot; API; B.III drift meter; Radio Altimeter; “Walter”; Radio Sono Buoy; GEE ARI 5083.

To be fitted to selected aircraft – “Bagful”; “Greenbottle”.

 

VERY LONG RANGE

 

GR.I, III, V, VI. Operational range 2,300 miles with tankage of 2,560 Imp gal for endurance of 16 hours.

 

GR.I – main tanks only

GR.III – Main tanks + 2 bomb bay tanks

GR.V (prior to FL971) – as GR.III

GR.V (FL971 onwards) – main tanks, auxiliary wing and single bomb bay tank.

GR.VI is not mentioned as it was only just arriving but the assumption was it would be as per the late model GR.V.

 

Guns - 1*0.5” in the nose; mid-upper turret to be removed and held at Ballykelly (there is a further note that when it is cleared for forward firing an amendment would be issued presumably with a view to fitting it again in some circumstances); 2*0.5” or 2*twin 0.303” in the waist; tail turret to be removed and the Transatlantic cupola refitted.

 

(EwenS note – that suggests that many of these aircraft were being delivered to the UK without the tail turrets, to have Boulton Paul turrets fitted by SAL at Prestwick)

 

Bomb loads as per LR aircraft to a max of 2,800lb.

Other points of note, to be fitted when available and to be fitted on selected aircraft all as per LR aircraft above.

 

Then we have another document which seems to be from a later date which has variations on the above. The extract from “The RAF in the Maritime War” has a copy of a “Secret” Appendix X from an official document. Clearly it dates from slightly later as it includes info on the retractable RP fit and the early GR.VI fitted with the Boulton Paul turret.

 

GR.V Long Range

Bomb load – As above but aso another option - RP but no LL – 16*25lb RP + 5*250lb DC OR 16*25lb RP plus one Mk.24 min + 3*250lb DC.

 

(EwenS comment – This fit must relate to the retractable RP fit that began to come into service in early 1944).

 

GR.VI Long Range

Main tanks and auxiliary wing tanks only for 1,600 nautical mile range at 4,000 feet. Crew 10.

Guns – nose and mid-upper 2*0.5”, waist 2*0.5”, tail*0.303”. If LL fitted the ammunition supply was halved.

 

Bombs

With or without LL – 8*250lb DC or 1*Mk24 mine and 6*250lb DC

With RP but no LL – 16*25lb RP + 3*250lb DC OR 16*25lb RP + 1*Mk24 mine.

 

(EwenS comment – clearly a retractable RP fit on the GR.VI in CC was contemplated but I’ve yet to see any evidence of it, except for the 3 Canadian aircraft referred to in an earlier post).

 

Very Long Range

Now for the confusion. This refers to the Mk.IIIA not the Mk.III. Normally the Mk.IIIA refers to the 11 LV*** serialled aircraft. It would seem odd for an official document to muddle these up.

 

Guns - 1*0.5” in the nose; mid-upper turret removed; 2*0.5” or 2*twin 0.303” in the waist; 4*0.303” in the tail BUT removed in those Mk.V with ASG.III radar.

 

Bomb loads are given as:-

Mk.IIIA or V with rear turret – 8*250lb DC or 2*Mk.24 mines and 5*250lb DC or 2*600lb A/S bombs and 6*250lb DC

Mk.V with no rear turret – 10*250lb DC or 2*Mk.24 mines and 5*250lb DC or 2*600lb A/S bombs and 6*250lb DC

Mk.V with no rear turret and carrying LL – 8*250lb DC

Mk.V with no rear turret or LL but carrying RP – 8*25lb RP + 5*250lb DC (seems to refer to the fixed RP)

 

“Walter” – a small portable radar responder beacon to be used by survivors of a ditched aircraft to allow searching aircraft an identifiable radar echo. Range 25 miles.

“Bagful” – recording device to pick up German Wurzburg radar signals.

“Greenbottle” – device for homing on U-boat signals.

[magman2]

Thank You for taking the time to share this information. Well done 🙏

[EwenS]

Something has just occurred to me re the VLR Mk.III/IIIA “confusion”.

 

The 11 LV serialled Mk.IIIA all came to the RAF with 2*0.5” guns in the waist. So reference to twin 0.303” must mean it is meant to refer to or at least include the Mk.III.

[rossm]

On 7/31/2020 at 4:01 PM, EwenS said:

 

interesting about 224. The 311 book notes that 224 got its first external RP aircraft in June 1943 - BZ721/R used by Bulloch to sink U514. More followed. But by 1/1/44 it only had a single RP equipped Lib which it supposedly kept until Sept (but it had no Dumbo nosed Libs after Feb 1944). In Dec 1943 it had started to return its Dumbo nosed ASG-1 radar equipped Libs for ASG-3 belly radar equipped GR.V with Leigh Light but no rockets.

 

It used the Mk.24 mine, usually referred to as Fido, actually an acoustic homing torpedo from July 1943 which its ORB refers to as 600lb DC.

 

Then at the end of May 1944 224 began to receive GR.VI with ASG-3 and LL. In July it began to use sonobuoys. By mid Sept it had 15 GR.VI and 3 GR.V. The latter were all gone by Nov when it began to receive GR.VIII with AN/APS-15 Radar better able to detect snorkels. By March 1945 all the GR.VI had been replaced with GR.VIII.

 

Hmm, at the risk of continuing the diversion from the OP  I need help, please, as my project is becoming less clear.

 

I started out planning to build BZ792 as 'G' of 224 Squadron on 7/8 June 44 flown by K.O.Moore when he sank 2 U-boats in one sortie. The Aviaeology instructions show it as having Dumbo, Leigh Light and rockets but the weapons load is gives as 12x250lb DC and one 'Proctor' in the ORB.

 

I believe @Terry @ Aviaeology spoke to Mr. Moore when preparing the decal sheet but his memory appears to have provided information that would have covered his time with 224 - just probably not June 1944 when the 2-tone upper surfaces were almost certainly not present and the squadron code was almost certainly 2 and not XB. Mr. Moore said he did not use the rockets on that occasion as he did not want to ruin his night vision - but would they really have been fitted? The ORB suggests not which is unfortunate as I set out to model a rocket equipped a/c !!!

 

The ORB does say the Leigh Light was turned on after one attack so we have an a/c with Leigh Light and 12 DC which is more than your documents suggest - perhaps the nature of the sortie allowed an overload? The ORB says the sortie was cut short by an hour but it was still over 8 hours long so would have needed a good fuel load.

 

Finally the radar - according to the Oughton book BZ792 was with 224 from 30th Aug 43 (following coastal mods by SAL) to 5th Sep 44 so would it have had ASG-3? If so then I've shot myself in the foot as I've cut the kit nose transparency to fit the Dumbo per Aviaeology instructions and I don't have a spare, neither do I have an ASG-3 as I included it in a load of parts sold to another BM'er. The installations don't seem to have gone strictly by serial as I've seen later serials with Dumbos and earlier with ASG-3 so I'm just plain befuddled.

 

Any help to clarify the configuration of BZ792 on that date would be welcome.

 

Perhaps I should change to BZ721 as flown by Terry Bulloch as I have the parts to do that configuration (although not the decals but a wanted post might sort that). Even then there's a small question over the squadron code as Eduard don't show one being present although 224 carried '2' at that time, however Bulloch and his aircraft were 'on loan' to 224 from the RAE which could explain that.

[EwenS]

Bad news I'm afraid. I'm almost certain that BZ792 would have been ASG3 equipped. The changeover from ASG1 Dumbo nose to ASG3 belly radome seems to have occurred between BZ751 (the last I have photo proof of having a Dumbo nose but see below) and BZ757 (the earliest I can find photo proof of with ASG3 but BZ756 is noted in Oughton as having been delivered to the RCAF with ASG3). That would be sometime in May 1943. BZ791 was fitted with ASG3.

 

BUT there is a photo of an aircraft purporting to be of BZ830 (the serial is not visible) while with 160 squadron in the Far East with a Dumbo nose. Then again BZ826 was ASG3 equipped. So I'm now questionning the accuracy of the serial attribution in the photo. If you have come across serials after BZ756 with a Dumbo nose I'd be interested in hearing about them. Remember that the GR.III/V serials were delivered in the order FK (1942), FL (1942/43) and then BZ (1943). The last BZ batch then continued into the Mk.VI before moving to other letters.

 

Given that the sinkings of U-373 and U-740 occurred on 8th June 1944, and their location west of Brest but relatively close to France, it is clear they were en route to the Channel to stop the Normandy invasion and the Liberators were flying as part of Operation Cork, anti submarine operations by ships and aircraft to seal off the western end of the Channel from the Irish coast to the Loire estuary. The plan broke the area into various boxes that were closely patrolled by ships and / or aircraft. Aircraft patrols were arranged so that an aircraft passed over each part of the area every 30 mins, so as to exhaust the U-boat batteries when they were forced to dive so often. So the 224 squadron operation from St Eval that night could have been expected to have been of shorter duration as transit time to/from the patrol area would be less than would be the case if they were operating over the wider Atlantic. That allowed the trade off of fuel for additional weapons. The reference to using the Leigh Light after the attack also seems odd. I'd always understood it was used in the final stages of an attack when the target had disappeared into the radar clutter as the range was closed.

 

The max number of DC that could be carried in either the forward or rear bomb bays of a Liberator was 10, so a load of 12 and a "Proctor" means no retractable rocket outfit in the rear bomb bay and probably no single bomb bay fuel tank in the forward bomb bay. As I've noted before rockets and Leigh Light were an incompatible fit due to the attack profile and the CC orders. So I would rule out the fixed RP fit being carried that night as well. That makes it probable that BZ792's trip to SAL from 30/11/43 to 22/1/44 was for fitment of the Leigh Light. That doesn't rule out the possibility that BZ792 had been fitted with the fixed RP setup on the nose earlier in its life and the RP equipment was sitting in the squadron stores.

 

The Mk.24 Mine, the acoustic torpedo, was variously known as "Fido" or "Zombie" or "Proctor". "Proctor" seems to have been a Coastal Command thing.

 

Also, with two successful U-boat attacks at night it is likely that they had exhausted their weapon load, or at least the DC part of it. The Proctor could only be used against a sub that had dived and where the aircraft had a clear view of the diving point. Although both victims are attributed to DCs I do wonder if U740, sunk at 0215, could have been a victim of the Proctor, as there were no survivors at all suggesting the crew were all closed up when hit. Any indication of weapons used in the ORB?

 

As for the squadron codes, between April and Sept 1944 "Combat Codes" has then as "2" not "XB".

 

So given the work you have already done, selecting another aircraft might be the simplest solution.

[rossm]

1 hour ago, EwenS said:

 .....................Any indication of weapons used in the ORB?

 

.......................So given the work you have already done, selecting another aircraft might be the simplest solution.

Thank you for the comprehensive reply - it was that photo of "BZ830" that confused me. A scan of the Oughton book reveals BZ724 had the Dumbo chin fitted at SAL - the only BZ serial where I've spotted this reference. I wonder if SAL also fitted ASG-3 and maybe could convert Dumbo a/c to ASG-3?

 

I think I'm guilty of an assumption that the ASG-3 came at the same time as the nose turret to make the GR.VI. Now I look I can see many GR.V with ASG-3, including one in the background of a photo of K.O.Moore !

 

This project has been rumbling on for years, I see the decal sheet came out in 2006 and I certainly bought it before 2010. An Academy kit has been gradually coming together with various AM sets since that time as well, boosted recently by getting the Eduard add-on overtrees from their Riders in the Sky kit of the GR.V based on the Hasegawa kit. BZ721 would make sure the work and parts are not wasted - off to the Wanted forum for the decals.

 

The Leigh Light was not used in Moore's attacks as it was a moonlit night and he could attack using the moonpath to silhouette the U-Boats but it was used after the second attack to spot survivors - as noted in the ORB. Also from the ORB - each attack used 6x250lb DC, with a 3-3 straddle in the first and a 4-2 in the second according to the tail gunner's observations.

[Carl V]

Ewen:

                Although my interest in the Liberator is essentially a thing of the past, I have immensely appreciated the information that you have been posting on the various GR marks and mods.

                Radar and Serials.            If you will revisit the photos posted on my behalf by Dogsbody on 30 July you will see that the third picture is of GR V (Can.) 600, originally BZ755. It has the ventral retractable radome. The next photo shows it with the Dumbo radome which was retrofitted when it was discovered that the retractable version when lowered degraded the performance/range to what was considered an unacceptable degree. Serial 598, originally BZ756, followed the same pattern.

                Acoustic torpedo nomenclature.      All official RCAF reference to this weapon including the huge main file called it Proctor. However, it was referred to by the RCAF personnel, both air and ground, who had to deal with it as Zombie or, occasionally, simply “Z”.

                To my mind, one of the most disturbing aspects of this weapon was the official order that if there were any U-boat survivors of a kill by this weapon who were not definitely going to be picked up by an Allied vessel, the aircrew were to ensure that there were no survivors. When I first encountered this story during fairly extensive aircrew interviews in the early 1970s, I was tempted to take it cum grano salis. However, I later located (and copied) the official order with this particular clause so I fear that there can be no doubt.

Carl

 

[EwenS]

32 minutes ago, rossm said:

Thank you for the comprehensive reply - it was that photo of "BZ830" that confused me. A scan of the Oughton book reveals BZ724 had the Dumbo chin fitted at SAL - the only BZ serial where I've spotted this reference. I wonder if SAL also fitted ASG-3 and maybe could convert Dumbo a/c to ASG-3?

 

I think I'm guilty of an assumption that the ASG-3 came at the same time as the nose turret to make the GR.VI. Now I look I can see many GR.V with ASG-3, including one in the background of a photo of K.O.Moore !

 

This project has been rumbling on for years, I see the decal sheet came out in 2006 and I certainly bought it before 2010. An Academy kit has been gradually coming together with various AM sets since that time as well, boosted recently by getting the Eduard add-on overtrees from their Riders in the Sky kit of the GR.V based on the Hasegawa kit. BZ721 would make sure the work and parts are not wasted - off to the Wanted forum for the decals.

 

The Leigh Light was not used in Moore's attacks as it was a moonlit night and he could attack using the moonpath to silhouette the U-Boats but it was used after the second attack to spot survivors - as noted in the ORB. Also from the ORB - each attack used 6x250lb DC, with a 3-3 straddle in the first and a 4-2 in the second according to the tail gunner's observations.

Re BZ724. The entry in Oughton reads "...SAL, Prestwick, 29/4/43 with TT 39hr17min; coastal mods and "Dumbo" chin ASV;......". It doesn't say the radar was "fitted" there (sorry its my legal training in reading the exact wording of things without adding / subtracting anything!)

 

The ASG series radars were of US origin. These Liberators left the factory and then passed to Modification Centers. To quote Oughton again they "went through a process of modification, involving the fitting of special equipment, radar and armament, before delivery." I've no doubt that SAL would have the capabilty of adding / replacing this equipment if needed, just as the Canadians did with their handful of aircraft. Liberators had a nasty habit of damaging their noses with front undercarriage collapses and repair crews were sent out by SAL/MUs to repair them which would probably have required replacement radars to be fitted in Dumbo specimens in some cases. But with BZ724 we have an aircraft newly delivered from the USA the same day it went to SAL. There is no mention of it suffering any damage at that point. I've no idea why it should be deemed worthy of specific mention. Maybe the radar was just u/s when tested and needed replacement.

 

Having said that I'm still trying to work out where the British FN.55 waist gun mounts were fitted to early aircraft and the Boulton Paul tail turrets to Coastal Command aircraft. Given references to Transatlantic tail fairings and the fact that GR.V delivered direct to 111 OTU in the Carribean and B.III versions retained the Consolidated tail turret and most never visited SAL when new, makes me wonder if these were being fitted at Prestwick. That then suggests that these might be one of the "Coastal mods". The LB.30s that became Liberator B.II seem to have been oufitted at Prestwick.

 

The depth charge usage ties in with a (very) hazy recollection from the dim distant past, which was why I didn't assume it.

[EwenS]

1 hour ago, Carl V said:

Ewen:

                Although my interest in the Liberator is essentially a thing of the past, I have immensely appreciated the information that you have been posting on the various GR marks and mods.

                Radar and Serials.            If you will revisit the photos posted on my behalf by Dogsbody on 30 July you will see that the third picture is of GR V (Can.) 600, originally BZ755. It has the ventral retractable radome. The next photo shows it with the Dumbo radome which was retrofitted when it was discovered that the retractable version when lowered degraded the performance/range to what was considered an unacceptable degree. Serial 598, originally BZ756, followed the same pattern.

                Acoustic torpedo nomenclature.      All official RCAF reference to this weapon including the huge main file called it Proctor. However, it was referred to by the RCAF personnel, both air and ground, who had to deal with it as Zombie or, occasionally, simply “Z”.

                To my mind, one of the most disturbing aspects of this weapon was the official order that if there were any U-boat survivors of a kill by this weapon who were not definitely going to be picked up by an Allied vessel, the aircrew were to ensure that there were no survivors. When I first encountered this story during fairly extensive aircrew interviews in the early 1970s, I was tempted to take it cum grano salis. However, I later located (and copied) the official order with this particular clause so I fear that there can be no doubt.

Carl

 

Carl

 

Yes I do remember your photos and the RCAF need for conversion from belly radome back to Dumbo nose still puzzles me greatly. Why did the RCAF have so many problems with the belly radome as to make the change necessary/worthwhile? The USAAF, USN and RAF in various Liberator versions all seem to have been happy enough with it. But do we know what was in the new Dumbo nose? Did they simply move the ASG3 in the belly to the nose or did they put an ASG1 set in the nose? What was the difference, if any, between the two models other than the mounting location? All the references I can find lump them together with the same characteristics/performance. From what you say it does seem to be more than a simple standardisation on Dumbo noses problem though.

 

And then why, if the belly radome was so unsatisfactory in the eyes of the RCAF, did they not seek to do something about the same ASG3 radar in the same belly mount in the GR.VI? 598 was being converted at the same time as the GR.VI began to be delivered. So much effort for only 3 or so aircraft. Most peculiar. But as they say, stranger things happen at sea!

 

I must admit that this is the first I can recall hearing of orders to ensure U-boat survivors couldn't get back to tell the tale about Fido, Zombie or Proctor. By the time it came on the scene the Germans already had deployed their own acoustic torpedo and the Allies had already developed an antidote. So why the secrecy? Maybe it was recollections of what happened with the Cavity Magnetron that fell into the hands of the Germans in Feb 1943 when Bomber Command started using H2S, the same set being used as an ASV set in Coastal Command.

[dogsbody]

More from Carl:

 

While I do not wish to be overly persistent it might be worthwhile to try and shed a little more light on some of the questions prompted by my last post.

 

            Dumbo vs ventral radar.         The RCAF had no problems whatsoever with the ASG 3 retractable radar. It was simply that, when lowered, the aircraft performance and, most especially, the endurance was negatively affected. Certainly the RCAF discovered this via experience. Is there any information anywhere that would contradict or confirm the supposition? I am not certain how the conversion was carried out but it appears to have been uncomplicated. As far as installing the Dumbo in the GR VI is concerned, even if it was technically feasible to place it under the nose turret it would’ve had little effect on performance. It is an oft-ignored fact that the operational environment from the point of view of prevailing wind strength was considerably more severe in the western North Atlantic than in the eastern. This was discovered not only by the RCAF but by US forces and Coastal Command on its occasional ventures into the theatre. When at the end of the patrol a crew was faced by an un-forecasted screaming blizzard coming from Hudsons Bay and off the Labrador coast, even a moderate increase in endurance was welcome.

            Proctor.    The secrecy was inspired by the RAF rather than solely by the RCAF. One of the manifestations which was told me on a number of occasions was a description of the shrouded Zombie being trolleyed out to the aircraft accompanied by an armed guard.

            Modification Centre.   A lot of the questions discussed in this thread would be solved if anybody could find the records or even a moderately detailed summary of the work done in the Louisville Mod Centre. Neither Jim Oughton or myself  during our collaboration back in the 70’s were able to do so.Essentially, ordinary B-24 D’s and J’s came off the production line, went there and were converted to GR aircraft. This, I believe, included painting. I attach some photos depicting  BZ718 which nosed over at Rockliffe on 29 March 1943 in delivery configuration.

 

Carl

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris