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Mattlow

3D Modelling in Fusion 360 - beginners' guidance...

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Hello Alistair and everyone else.

 

I just noticed this new area of BM and think it's a great idea. I thought that it may be useful  to have a thread looking at the 3D modelling that is of course the prerequisite for any printing.

 

I had been trying to get into Fusion 360 some time ago but stalled. I am now having another go and trying to learn as I go by searching Google for videos covering an aspect I need to know. So far I have managed to create parallel planes to put sections onto and then lofted... See below

 

50152319737_9dfb9101c9_b.jpgMew Gull 3D sketch by Matt Low, on Flickr

 

That gives me this render...

 

50152319917_211d381f21_b.jpgMew Gull by Matt Low, on Flickr

 

Now there's all sorts of things wrong with it (though I am sort of pleased with the look - it does look like a stylised Mew Gull).. Note that just behind the cockpit on the lower fuselage there's all sorts of horrors going on.. this is because the loft is using vertices (is that the correct term for the points which define the sketches?) and joining them to form surfaces (right term?). In the area I mention there aren't enough points and it goes all 'wonky' for want of a better word.  I have been reading about using 'rails' which seem to control the shapes of the loft. I assume if I digitise in the profile and a plan view, these will become rails that with help define the loft shapes..?

 

I thought would it be useful to have some sort of thread looking at how to do stuff? The 3D CAD expert will I'm sure say you have to learn the basics and work up to more complex stuff... well, I want to try to do both at the same time.  Alistair, it'd be really great if you did a walk through of how you set up your models... Something that we can follow to get the basic form of an aircraft .

 

PS - I haven't done the nose yet as it looks to be the most challenging part of the fuselage.. :)

 

Cheers

 

Matt

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Hi Matt.  If you are lofting you have come a long, long way in Fusion 360😀 and well done Sir.  Yes, using rails will get you the rest of the way towards having the fuselage looking the way you want. I didn't find them very intuitive to learn but pretty powerful once you get them under control.  If you haven't started yet I can advise that you control your 'new bodies' and make components when you can. Isn't the 'time line' a great feature? That ability to go back and change or add/delete a feature is marvellous. I am a big fan of Fusion 360 as a software package, I just wish it ran a bit better on my older computer.  Save often and have fun.  
Dan

 

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9 hours ago, ScanmanDan said:

I can advise that you control your 'new bodies' and make components when you can.

Now there is something I can certainly learn - everything I do is still a body and despite making several models I’m none the wiser of what a component is or the purpose of them

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10 hours ago, ScanmanDan said:

If you are lofting you have come a long, long way in Fusion 360

 

Thanks Dan

 

My worry, as with all self taught endeavours is that I've reached a certain point without the necessary 'foundations'. Time will tell.. :).

 

I was looking at a ship building site where they used a feature (can't recall the name at moment) that, for example, places  vertices at each point a sketched plan or profile intersects your parallel planes. You can then sketch the sections ensuring each section intersects the plan/profile sketches. This is apparently essential if those are to become rails to control the loft.

 

I shall find the relevant thread and get the name of the function.

 

Matt

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One chief use of a component is that it allows you to draw a part on a seperate drawing and then import( copy) it into another drawing.  That's how I did the open ammo box I showed in the other post.  

spacer.png

 

I did a drawing of the 100mm shell then made it into a component.  ( Used the shell drawing to export a STL file to print lots of single shells)  When I drew up the open box I started with a copy of my closed ammo box.  Split the top off ( Made a new plane at the break of the top and body, then used the  Split body command) and rotated the top back.  Then roughed out the interior of the box, imported two copies of the shell and then added braces.  A few other little things to make it print better but pretty easy once you have the box and the shell drawn.

I'd also urge you to get into the habit of naming all your bodies and sketches as it makes it a lot easier to find the one you want when it's called Front View rather than sketch 7.

And save often!  Have fun, Fusion 360 is pretty powerful and I'm learning new stuff all the time :) 

 

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Jeeez. Just when I was getting over learning airbrushing  :rage:

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Matt,  Self taught is good.  I started picking it up in December and while a zillion years ago I trained as a draftsman, when CAD was so expensive the Uni had very strict limits on how much time a student could play/learn the darn stuff, I'm more concerned with forgetting how the program works between drawing sessions.  YouTube is a big help as you can jump back online to 'refresh' your memory on how you did it last time.  The hard thing is sometimes you know what you want to do.  And you're sure that it can be done.  But you don't know what the system calls the command or procedure to get it done.  Lofting was a real Bugbear as I wanted to do an aircraft nosecone but took ages to stumble upon the concept of 'lofting'  It all make some kind of sense now but before is was a lot of stumbling in the dark.  Take heart, you will get there.

 

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38 minutes ago, ScanmanDan said:

it allows you to draw a part on a seperate drawing and then import( copy) it into another drawing

Handy, that’ll save me doing the same missile repeatedly. Thanks!

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In my last post above I said I'd find the term for creating points on the parallel planes to ensure rails intersect each profile.

 

Here's the quote from the shipbuilding site:

 

"I learned early on that if I want to use the Loft operation with Rails, it is a requirement that every profile being lofted must intersect with every rail.  To make sure this would happen, I would select an offset plane and use Sketch -> Project / Include -> Intersect to create a set of points where the offset plane intersects with the waterlines. "

 

Here's a link to the thread as it has plenty of useful stuff and lofting a ship's hull is, apparently, pretty difficult.

 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19657-an-attempt-at-hull-modeling-with-fusion-360-loft-rails/

 

Matt

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My poor mind is boggling with talk of lofts and rails.  My life is not what I thought it was.  I store kits in the loft and trains travel on rails. :blink:

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Thanks to the good Mr. @Aardvark I have some nice pictures of the Armstrong Whitworth AW.58 to work from so I've made a start. Apologies to anyone who actually knows how to work this software for real.

 

I've pulled a document I want as reference, a manufacturer's sketch, 3 view drawing and a cutaway from the article, saved as images and then uploading into my new folder for this project

 

Screenshot (78)

 

I've started a new file and added the 3-view drawing as a canvas. Right-clicking on the canvas let me scale this to my intended 1/72 size (7.32m wingspan so a little under 102mm scale span)

Screenshot (79)

 

I want to work from a couple of the drawings so added a second canvas and resize that referencing the first

Screenshot (80)

 

I've drawn one sketch which is simply datum lines and then start a second tracing the fuselage cross sections

Screenshot (81)

 

I then moved a copy of each of these down onto the corresponding point on the fuselage below and rotate 90degrees around the vertical axes so that they line up neatly 

Screenshot (82)

 

Then I decluttered a bit to get rid of any lines or points which might result in my next lines 'snapping' to something unintentional

Screenshot (83)

 

I then added a curve connecting the cross sections at the very top and bottom of the verticals following the outline of the fuselage

Screenshot (84)

 

At a first look that seems ok

Screenshot (85)

 

I then clicked the first profile, clicked to finish the drawing and then the loft function and worked along the fuselage adding each cross section to the loft and finally the top and bottom lines as rails (I had a failure the first couple of times as there was a kink in one of the rails that it didn't appreciate and the shape was funny as my upper outline had gone a bit wonky but after a bit of adjustment I got a decent 3D volume. I was able to then tweak it by using the pull function to extend the nose a smidge, go back into the drawing to adjust the line of the belly near the tail and rescale the tail near the exhaust as it looked a bit small once it was a body rather than a drawing

Screenshot (86)

 

Et voila! something almost like a fuselage ready to stick wings and thing onto. From your comments above @Mattlow I think it is having the line that you're going to use as your guide rail snap to the profile that is key. I try to make some kind of reference intersection with a line e.g. the crosses I use to line up each profile make for a decent point that the software finds and snaps the line to easily (if that makes sense at all?)

Screenshot (87)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

My poor mind is boggling with talk of lofts and rails.  My life is not what I thought it was.  I store kits in the loft and trains travel on rails. :blink:

*puts on Aladdin costume, boards magic carpet and clears throat* 🎶 A whole new world,...

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

My poor mind is boggling with talk of lofts and rails.  My life is not what I thought it was.  I store kits in the loft and trains travel on rails. :blink:

 

Tis witchcraft I tell you, witchcraft! Nowt good will come of this!

 

To be serious, my brother in law has an Elgoo one and is almost constantly printing stuff on it, he thinks it's absolutely fabulous! I was green with envy and very tempted until I discovered it just won't print stuff small enough for what I want.

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Alistair

 

The above is very interesting. It seems to be a much more straightforward approach than I was using in that you aren't creating an 'offset plane' at each point the sections of the aircraft relate to. The offset plane is there to locate the individual canvases of the sections - you've completely bypassed that, which looks to be very much a  time saver.

 

I'm going to have a play and see what i come up with...

 

Thanks

 

Matt

 

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Posted (edited)

Not to be a trouble maker Murdo but how small ya want to go?

spacer.png

 

The two marker lights on the corner of the 1/48 scale T-55 just above the fender fuel tank are about 2x2mm and I regularly successful print details down to about 0.25-0.3mm square and I'm not a great printer.  I think you can do just about as well as most manufactures as far as detail is concerned.  And gosh help us when 4K screens get cheaper.
Dan

 

Edited by ScanmanDan

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7 hours ago, ScanmanDan said:

Not to be a trouble maker Murdo but how small ya want to go?

@Murdo I had the same thought. Have to seen the wing fold mechanism @TheBaron is busily drafting to print? Teeny tiny art

 

Sure your brother-in-law just doesn’t want someone else having a go on his toy?

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14 hours ago, LostCosmonauts said:

Thanks to the good Mr. @Aardvark

Any time!

😉✊🤝

 

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S.

On 7/26/2020 at 1:22 AM, Mattlow said:

I just noticed this new area of BM

Need titles  for this section, something like “Club 3d modeller's  -

the future killers of the traditional modeling industry is born here!" also need "Jolly Roger" and bottle Rum in profile  active members!

😉😁😁 

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21 hours ago, ScanmanDan said:

Not to be a trouble maker Murdo but how small ya want to go?

 

As small as the nautical greeblies on this scratch built 1/350 Ship.   

 

 

 

rtZpRbM.jpg

 

 

The masts / Radars / searchlights / and the loads of ventilators etc.

 

GKNkJGn.jpg

 

I think I made the anchor windlass of 23 separate parts:

 

 

KjOLE0m.jpg

 

The DF Loop Arial sticking out from the front of the bridge:

 

UOyoAUs.jpg

 

The RHIBs on the main deck:

 

 

GxTHbF2.jpg

 

 

 

 

It would be great to be able to just "print" more of these items as many of then are quite common on ships.

 

The model is 7" long

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, LostCosmonauts said:

@Murdo I had the same thought. Have to seen the wing fold mechanism @TheBaron is busily drafting to print? Teeny tiny art

 

Sure your brother-in-law just doesn’t want someone else having a go on his toy?

 

He'd happily let me have a go on his new toy but he's in Canada and I'm in Scotland.      :D

 

 

Okay, started reading The Baron's Sea Vixen FAW post... Only 48 pages? This might take a wee while...    :rofl:

 

 

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5 hours ago, Murdo said:

Only 48 pages? This might take a wee while... 

True, it is a bit like the Iliad was meant to be a quick boat trip home. Started off as a bit ofSprawled from 2 kits and a bit of scratching into redrafting the Sea Vixen from the ground up and printing but that post on page 45 I’ve linked shows all sorts of intricacies and greeblies of the wing fold all designed within the bounds of what should be printable. 

 

Looking at the ship parts and size I think it be worth a go 

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How are you getting on with the Mew Gull?

 

After posting that the other evening I had a look from above and realised that the fuselage was still rather too skinny side-to-side

Screenshot (88)

 

So to correct that (and since I've put some work in I might as well plan on making the thing) I redid the fuselage as one half (left) with another rail running along the datum. Once I was happy with it I hollowed it out and mirrored to create the right

Screenshot (91)

 

Seen from above (and after adding a wing by the same lofting method) I'm happier with the shape. I should note that this is where I used an offset plane to create the wing. As the plan view is offset compared to the angle of attack it made life simpler to draw on an angled plane rather than horizontal. I then mirrored this to create the other side

Screenshot (93)

 

I split out the flaps and ailerons on the wing then similar to lofting I did the tailfin but using the sweep function. It is a lot like lofting but you can just extrude from one profile defining both a direction and a guiderail. That is starting to look something like the sketches (I'll have to go back and redo the tail as it is a bit thick but you get the idea)

Screenshot (95)

 

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Hi Alistair

 

Still struggling along. Nothing worthy of a new post yet. One thing I'm finding is that there's a difference between reading something, thinking you understand it and then actually trying to do it... :)

 

But hey, I've only put a total of about 5 hours into 360 so far, so I can't expect much yet...

 

Matt

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I've just got a license and am crying at the utter vastness of that which I do not know.

 

I need to just enforce some discipline, forget about trying to model anything I am remotely interested in and just work through a few hundred hours of YouTube tutorials I think.

 

This is like learning to walk, only not being a baby I don't have all day every day to dedicate to it. It's a skill set I would like to possess though.

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10 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

I've just got a license and am crying at the utter vastness of that which I do not know.

This tutorial is pretty good and gets you working with the common tools pretty much from the get go

 

https://diyodemag.com/education/exploring_3d_part_1_beginners_guide_to_fusion_360

 

Other than that all I can suggest is picking a modelling subject with a relatively straightforward shape and dive in

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6 minutes ago, LostCosmonauts said:

This tutorial is pretty good and gets you working with the common tools pretty much from the get go

 

https://diyodemag.com/education/exploring_3d_part_1_beginners_guide_to_fusion_360

 

Other than that all I can suggest is picking a modelling subject with a relatively straightforward shape and dive in

 

Thank you. I shall definitely pursue that tutorial.

 

I've made some crumby ink stamps and generic stuff like that from a channel on YouTube called Product Design Online, and did an introduction to lofting tutorial.

 

I have to confess I did assume I could have a bash at a modelling subject but I simply cannot overstate the paralysis of incompetence. I got a simple wing shape but couldn't work out how to make a wing tip from what I'd done. None of the tools did what I thought they might after that so I figured I'd probably made a fundamental error to begin with.

 

I imagine like most complex skills those who can do it have probably forgotten all the things they take for granted.

 

This is one of these things where I just don't think I'll get anywhere without prolonged structured learning. Like physical modelling, you can't bypass earning your experience!

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