Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

David M

Freighter G-AIMC Colours?

Recommended Posts

Does anyone know what colours were used on Bristol's demonstrator G-AIMC on its sales tour to Australia and New Zealand?

Found lots of B & W and one colourised image on the net but I don't trust colourised B&W...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hello David.

 

I have looked through my stash of Mk 21 photos but alas no joy.

 

No doubt you are using the Geoff Goodall webpage as a main source of information. When you say the colourised photo are you referring to the one on Facebook with the crowd around and the car being posed as loading? It does look pretty plausible going by the colours of the clothing and car but it just doesn't quite distinguish the thin trim colour underneath the broad upper cheat line, does it? I wonder how the person judged the colours to be that anyway. I wonder what the colourists reference was? Surely not a pure guess.

 

You could try asking Aerospace Bristol at Filton if they have any better photos or information. Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

Linz

 

Edited by chopper61
typo - missed word.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2020-07-25_182210

This illustration appears in the B.170 brochure.  It doesn't quite match how AIMC was painted, but I reckon it gives you the "House Colours".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Linz,

I will try Aerospace Bristol...good suggestion.

Geoff's site has been part of the inspiration but I also have a photo of the nose at Wau post the accident with the list of places it visited completed with "Wau" and a small cross/tombstone.

 

Hello Lazy8,

I think you may have cracked the colours; an artist's impression but importantly a Bristol artist's impression. A black/white/red/silver pallet would also look good.

 

Many thanks to you both...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hi David,

 

Just had a few thoughts about this. From what I can gather, the earliest aircraft I have seen in colour which went to airline service were to Silver City. An old Silver City related chap I met one time said they adopted their aircraft in the same 'Bristol' colours as delivered as SC was running on a pretty tight budget at the time and didn't want to pay for any fancy artwork. I have to admit when they started up they were pretty austere times so it does seem possibly correct.

 

SC's colours were mid/dark blue and natural unpolished metal with grey (sometimes) bars over/under the wing around the engine nacelles, presumably to protect against exhaust soot or ease of cleaning). 

 

Now here is the tricky and the 'leap of faith' bit. Looking at B&W photos of Silver City aircraft , a sister ship G-AIME and G-AGVC, the general layout of the livery is the same.  The shade (?) in the B&W photos are the same, or well similar to the Geoff Goodall pictures of G-AMIC. I willing to bet on a hunch the colourised photo of the car loading and crowd is probably correct and based on someone saying so who was there or some other bona fide reference they had.

 

Looking at the photo on the Goodall webpage showing the ship at Essendon and later at Cairns I am willing to bet that the livery is:

 

1. Upper fuselage over cockpit hump - white (Tropical coverage to reflect heat)

2. Lower fuselage, nacelles upper tail and upper/lower wings - natural unpolished metal (no grey nacelle or wing exhaust barring)

3. Upper fuselage (rear from wing trailing edge ) and upper broad cheat - dark blue (but not as dark as say Insignia Blue)

4. Upper cheat lower trim - red or light blue

5. Lower (thin) cheat line - dark blue

6. Signage and registration to tail and wings - dark blue

7. Signage to front port fuselage and listing of visited places - dark blue with red/gold lining to the name "Freighter."

 

Getting liveries correct is fundamental I know. And using b&w photos any colour reference is extremely inexact but then using old colour photos can be too.  I at least think these colours are very plausible.

Of course, failing that you could use you best guess scheme as you see it, display a finished model at a show and I bet someone will come up, have a look and say with great authority  "That's not right. It should be.... I know because I have a picture etc.etc. Bingo. (I say this jokingly).

 

The Aerospace Bristol page you want is here

 

Good luck David. 

Edited by chopper61
Additional paint details found from photographic evidence from Type 170 Mk21 Sales Brochure on EBAY UK - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRISTOL-TYPE-170-MANUFACTURERS-SALES-BROCHURE-FREIGHTER-WAYFARER-1951/193393684182?hash=item2d07296ed6:g:ybsAAOSw2j5ebnqK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The front and back covers of Aeroplane for Jan 30th 1948 has G-AIFF (Black letters) shown in colourised format. It is OA Silver with a wide dark red stripe/ flash, similar to the earlier illustration, from nose to tail, which then extends up the fin about a third of the fin/rudder height.  This Red flash has a thin Yellow stripe along it's entire lower edge. There is then a natural/Silver skin coloured space of about 3"s  and then a mid blue lower cheat line which mirrors  the Red and Yellow lines from nose curve to rudder. The Yellow/ Silver /Blue edge is repeated on the top of the extended Red band on the fin and rudder (only).  It also has yellow spinner front halves.

 Pre-war, the colour Black was often used on Bristol civil aircraft fuselages, as suggested in the earlier illustration. I can't scan it as Photobucket is still not working.

 

Addendum. The wide Red stripe actually goes over to cover the whole fuselage top aft of the raised cabin.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi John,

 

Is this the a/c you are referring to? This is a B/W photo of the sales demonstrator from Bristol for Silver City.

spacer.png

Bristol 170 (Mk21) demonstrator G-AHJC at Blackbushe

Reference - http://www.silvercityairways.com/the_company.htm

 

It does indeed look like it could possibly be a red cheat trimmed with black or dk blue trim and red lettering/reg. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes this is very similar but G-AILL had no Wayfarer script on the side and silver cowls. The Freighter gets a lot of coverage in the Aeroplane magazines of 1948. I remember as a boy, sitting on the fence at RCAF Langar (Nottinghamshire) watching the Canadian ones. Of interest is the Belgian Stirling in the background.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did the nose doors actually open on the Wayfarer version?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Eric Mc said:

Did the nose doors actually open on the Wayfarer version?

The Wayfarer didn't have nose doors.  The same shape, but no breaks, no hinges, etc.  You might think that made it a bit of an oddity in a world awash with second-hand Dakotas, and that probably explains why they hardly sold any.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, John Aero said:

Of interest is the Belgian Stirling in the background.

Certainly is, John! Is it likely to be PK148/G-AKPC/OO-XAM? If so, I don't think it ever got as far as Belgium because it was scrapped at Thame. Do you know if it ever carried its British registration though? I'm sure I've seen a pic of it carrying OO-XAM, probably in an old Aeroplane monthly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alan,

 

I too feel that I've seen a photo with the Belgian reg applied, It might have been in Aeroplane Spotter, or as you suggest in Aeroplane monthly. Either way it will take a bit of time to find. I wish that the Freighter picture was clearer, because it does appear to have the roundel missing.

 

In the meantime Photobucket has let me download the new version (which I like), hence the attached pictures.

 

John

Aeroplane magazine January 30 1948. Cover and back cover page

 

Scan030.jpg

 

Aeroplane Magazine February 20 1948 back cover.

 

Scan031.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hi John,

 

Thanks for the pictures. They are really very interesting. 

 

This rightly calls into question then the validity of my previous assumptions about the colours of G-AIMC that David was asking about.

Eric Mc/Lazy 8 - great question and response. While I knew the Wayfarer was the all-seater version I had never realised it had a 'solid' or non-functioning nose doors. Looking at my picture of the Wayfarer posted above I now see there are no hinges.  

Bristol offered the Wayfarer with both a 32 seat 'First Class' version and as a 44 seat 'Standard' or 'Coach class'. As you said Lazy8 trying to sell an all First Class configured Freighter does seem a stretch considering the amount of cheap DC3s there were around then. Even the Viking.

 

BTW there is currently someone selling a Bristol sales brochure for a Mk31 Freighter/Wayfarer on EBAY UK. He has kindly given some examples of the pages in the description which are as fascinating as they are informative.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRISTOL-TYPE-170-MANUFACTURERS-SALES-BROCHURE-FREIGHTER-WAYFARER-1951/193393684182?hash=item2d07296ed6:g:ybsAAOSw2j5ebnqK

  

Sadly, as fascinating as this all is I wish I could help David more in answering his OP. Sorry David. 

 

Cheers, Linz

Edited by chopper61
Edited for accuracy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Hi David,

 

Have you seen this photo of her G-AIMC at Rotorua, NZ during her tour? This is a very sharp, clear closeup and doesn't she look as bright as a button.

 

https://natlib.govt.nz/records/30653827?search[creator]=Not+specified&search[path]=photos&search[text]=british+flags++and+maori

 

If you look at the flags on the side and use them as a greyscale 'shade' reference, knowing the colour shade the red of the Union Jack and the blues of the NZ and Union Jack, could this help you discern whether she was wearing Bristol red or blue? Possibly could the 'Merchant Venturer' be in red and the cheat trim be in the gold?

 

Linz

Edited by chopper61
Remove italics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good call on the flag colours. I'd say that in this case the main stripe is Blue.

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers John. I hope this all helps David.

 

And may I say, a good call on the Aeroplane Magazine resource. 

The one thing I am truly thankful for in this forum is the vast wealth of knowledge of history, specs etc you and others have and such a huge range of subjects and your the willingness to share for the good of the community as a whole. Thanks, you certainly helped me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am pretty sure there was a photo of that Belgian Stirling in the Aviation News plans and related article from around 1973 or 1974.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks John, Thanks Linz,

All this has been incredibly helpful in informing my choices for G-AIMC.

My thinking is:

  • the pattern or a minor variation is the same on all the aircraft.
  • G-AIMC had a dark (B&W) trim colour edged in a light colour, in turn edged in natural metal and edged yet again in the trim colour.
  • Using the flags as a guide the main colour is too dark to be red and is possibly too light to be blue.
  • However, both flags are in shade cast by the wing while most of the trim above is unshaded and thus appears lighter.
  • Hence I think it is a safe bet that the main (and the outer line) colour is a dark blue.
  • John's post of G-AIFF suggests that the inner edging colour is yellow (too light for red) and that the lettering is yellow on the trim and yellow edged blue for the "Freighter" titling.
  • His image would thus show the same scheme, one in red and one in blue.

I have one further source I need to check but unless something dramatic appears I think this is as close as I will get.

Again, many thanks to you all,

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I would go with that David and add that the spinners are the same colour as the broad cheat, silver prop blades with yellow tips and maybe de-icing strips too. Again I am taking it for granted as they were most of the the time around then.

Possibly, the 'Merchant Venturer' could be in yellow?

 

If you are trying Aerospace Bristol then fingers crossed they can give you the real gin on the scheme. 

 

Good luck David.

Linz

Edited by chopper61
edited for clarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...