Bristol Scout 1/32 first scratch build attempt

[bigbadbadge]

Great update and work on the fuselage.  It looks fantastic.  

All the best

Chris

[RichieW]

Thank you so much Ex FAAWAFU, those pictures are incredibly helpful. I took a load of reference photos a few weeks ago but all those beautiful oil stains were gone. It's so helpful to have photographs taken outside too, I'm hoping to capture the translucence your pictures show so well. 

 

Many, many thanks

Richie

[RichieW]

17 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

Great update and work on the fuselage.  It looks fantastic.  

All the best

Chris

Thanks Chris, I've been having a bit of a battle with making the top wing for a few days. I hope to be able to show some progress in a day or two.The shape of the side panels immediately behind the cowling is confusing the life out of me. Hopefully a few cold beers and a bit of head scratching will provide the answer soon.

 

Cheers

Richie

[RichieW]

WINGS AND THINGS

 

While I continue to ponder the shape of the fuselage sides immediately behind the cowling I thought I would have a play with the top wing.

The central section is level while the wings have a lot of dihedral. I thought starting with one piece, shaping the aerofoil then cutting out the central section would be a good way to ensure a constant shape. I did this with sanding, boiling water, bending and iced water. This is made out of 2mm thick styrene sheet so was hard work!

 

Top wing aerofoil shape sanded but warped. by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

As you can see there is a definite warp in the shape, so I taped it flat to my steel rule and treated it with boiling water followed by cold to set it in place.

 

Warp almost cured. by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

Not perfect but much better.

 

The centre section was cut out using a combination of Tamiya saw and scriber. I made a template for the wing edge then cut and shaped with a scalpel and sanding block.

 

20200731_112054 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

Perfect fit on the blueprints for outline and a pretty good match for the aerofoil shape. In my excitement I hurriedly cut out the right side. Except I didn't, doh!

 

20200731_112121 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

Amazingly enough no short, staccato Anglo Saxonisms were employed at this point, just gales of laughter at my own stupidity and a solemn vow never to rush again. Told you I was a newbie scratch builder!

 

To be honest I didn't fancy cutting, shaping and sanding more styrene, it produces vast quantities of plastic dust and is just hard work. I have ordered a sheet of balsa and will make the wing cores when it arrives. 

 

Now back to pondering how to shape the nose.

 

Best wishes all

Richie 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by RichieW

[RichieW]

It's been far too hot here to spend time at the bench today and tomorrow is forecast to be much the same. Yesterday I did manage to sit outside in the shade and have a whittle on a balsa sheet to see if I could make a wing core. The real challenge is to make it thin enough and retain symmetry.

I started with a single piece of balsa long enough to make all of the wings with a bit of excess in case of mishaps. By laying it out along a BBQ table top and sanding in long strokes with a curved sanding block I think I may have got there. It was a hugely time consuming process but I don't mind that as I have no work on at the moment and England were playing very poorly against Pakistan in the test match. I used a foam cored sanding block which was easily bent and held into the required shape.

 

Bristol Scout top wing balsa core and frame. by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

You can see how thin it is here. The edges have been reinforced with extra thin CA glue to hold them together.

 

Scout top wing balsa core and frame. by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

The shape of the fuselage side just behind the cowling has been bothering me for a long time. In the end I just filled the area with milliput and sanded back from the firewall and it automatically assumed pretty much the correct the shape. It's certainly good enough for me in my first foray into the mysterious world of scratch building!

I have no idea at all how I am going to skin the core, the options seem to be double sided tape which I'm not sure I fancy much, CA glue which I fancy even less. I am also a little conflicted about skinning with a single piece of styrene bent over both surfaces or separate top and bottom skins like I used for the tail feathers. I suspect I will stick with what I know here.

Many thanks for reading, please feel free to offer any advice or criticisms. I am not in any way precious about my hobby and am desperately keen to learn from the great modellers here.

Richie
 

 

 

[DMC]

Excellent problem solving and progress.  Re the wing: why not try a small piece shaped like the centre section and try the tape and skinning method.  You might find it’s not that difficult and would certainly be of use in future builds.  I’ve done a few, messed a couple up and had some luck with the others.  

 

Dennis 

[Marklo]

On the wings I tend to use a single folded skin ( ala Harry Woodman) then double sided sticky and secure the trailing edges with CA. All CA works two but working time is reduced and you need to place the skin correctly first time.

 

 

 

These are the wings for my 1/48 Albatross CIX. Might be harder to do for your 1/32 Scout.

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Marklo

[bigbadbadge]

Hi Ritchie

Great work so far, I love looking at the fuselage you have created and am keen to see how you solve the wing issue, as I would like to,one day progress onto a scratch build myself.  

Will you be skinning with the plasticard and ball point pen method or a sheet and adding the rib tapes etc. Sorry if it is a silly question but I am a scratch build newbie wannabe!!!

Chris

[RichieW]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Excellent problem solving and progress.  Re the wing: why not try a small piece shaped like the centre section and try the tape and skinning method.

10 minutes ago, bigbadbadge said:

Hi Ritchie

Great work so far, I love looking at the fuselage you have created and am keen to see how you solve the wing issue, as I would like to,one day progress onto a scratch build myself.  

Will you be skinning with the plasticard and ball point pen method or a sheet and adding the rib tapes etc. Sorry if it is a silly question but I am a scratch build newbie wannabe!!!

Chris

Hi Chris and thanks for the compliment. It's definitely not a silly question re skinning the wings. I am a scratch building newbie myself!

 

Yes I will be using the styrene sheet and ballpoint pen method. Definitely have a go at scratch building, I am finding this to be challenging but great fun. No worrying over destroying an expensive kit either.

 

Dennis, many thanks as always. That sounds like excellent advice that I will certainly be following.

 

Thanks Marklo, those Albatros wings are excellent. Your method is clearly a very good one!

 

 

[DMC]

Hi Richie,

A couple of photos from my Macchi M.33 build.  Not show is the wing skin with the ribs embossed using a drafting pen.  I am inclined to favour the tape method over the pen.  Easier to correct mistakes...which I am prone to make.

 

 

I used an Ed an assortment of spacers, starting with the widest, to get the tapes the same on left and right.

 

 

Dennis

 

[RichieW]

Many thanks Dennis the Macchi Wing looks excellent. Does the double sided tape have to cover the entire core? The trick with the spacers and strips for the ribs looks great.

 

It's already too hot in my work space so i'm going to wait for the weather to break before doing any more. I might sit in the garden and carve a wood veneer propeller though but then the test match is nicely poised so I might just put my feet up!

3 hours ago, DMC said:

Excellent problem solving and progress.  Re the wing: why not try a small piece shaped like the centre section and try the tape and skinning method.

1 hour ago, bigbadbadge said:

Hi Ritchie

Great work so far, I love looking at the fuselage you have created and am keen to see how you solve the wing issue, as I would like to,one day progress onto a scratch build myself.  

Will you be skinning with the plasticard and ball point pen method or a sheet and adding the rib tapes etc. Sorry if it is a silly question but I am a scratch build newbie wannabe!!!

Chris

Hi Chris and thanks for the compliment. It's definitely not a silly question re skinning the wings. I am a scratch building newbie myself!

 

Yes I will be using the styrene sheet and ballpoint pen method. Definitely have a go at scratch building, I am finding this to be challenging but great fun. No worrying over destroying an expensive kit either.

 

Dennis, many thanks as always. That sounds like excellent advice that I will certainly be following.

 

Thanks Marklo, those Albatros wings are excellent. Your method is clearly a very good one!

 

 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, RichieW said:

Does the double sided tape have to cover the entire core?

No.  My roll is about 2cm in width, the plastic backing, but sticky part is only about 15mm.  I would on a, say, 1/48 wing, split it lengthwise into two 7mm strips.  With a  wider wing i’d Just use the the entire width.  Imagine the wing being split down the middle end to end.  One length is stuck in the middle of one half, another length on the other. They need not go right to each end.   On page 63 of your Woodman book there are good illustrations of my inadequate description.  

 

I have never put tape on a concave underside of wing and Woodman doesn’t say to do it either.   If his method on  pg63 is used there shouldn’t be any need to do that. 

 

Trust this his explanation has been of some use.   The wing in this series of photos is from my Macchi M.39 build.  

 

 

Dennis

[Marklo]

6 hours ago, RichieW said:

Thanks Marklo, those Albatros wings are excellent. Your method is clearly a very good one!

Thank you. As Oscar Wilde said ‘talent borrows, genius steals’ Harry Woodmans book is still the bible for scratchbuilding imho, it in the public domain, if you haven’t already downloaded a PDF I’d strongly recommend you do.

[RichieW]

Thanks Marklo, I picked up a second hand copy a few weeks ago. Fascinating stuff it is too. 

[Derek Bradshaw]

Hi Ritchie,

 

Good advice all round on wing skinning issues. I have had success with two adhesive types for attaching plastic sheet skins to balsa cores. One is using Araldite epoxy resin, which gives you lots of positioning time but does require good clamping to avoid movement whilst curing. The other is Copydex adhesive, which is a latex based contact adhesive, which, of course is a 'place it right first time' affair; however, it is plastic friendly.

 

Good luck

 

Derek

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Derek Bradshaw

[RichieW]

Well, it's been a difficult year to say the least! I have done an awful lot of drinking and absolutely no modelling since my last update but after a few dry weeks the world is a much better place and I have been back at the bench with my old enthusiasm restored.

I burned out before by overthinking everything and worrying that the end result would be awful but I remembered that so long as I have fun and end up with something vaguely Scouty in appearance I will be very happy!

I made a start on the instrument panel, here is the original;

Bristol Scout 1264 by Richard Williams, on Flickr

I'll just go for a passing resemblance!


The base is plastic sheet with wood veneer over the top. I have no idea what the brass dome with a rocker switch is I made it with brass rod filed to a dome shape. I then drilled a hole for it and cut it to length, painted the aluminium 'sleeve' on and glued it in. I might CA a little piece of wire as a rock switch later, probably not though!

Likewise I have no idea what the instrument above is, I used brass tube filled it with Krystal clear and in it went to a pre drilled hole. Spare bits of brass etch were used to make the map frame (not very square!) the middle was painted. I shall cover the middle with gloss varnish. Next up the vertical tube (again no idea!) I just used brass rod and white paint. The pipe that comes from it is Maxima fishing line threaded through and again through a hole drilled in the panel. The white paper discs are just to give an idea of where the other instrument will go. I have some Airscale decals and some bezels are on order. I think they will be too big but I have a cunning plan if that proves to be the case.

To the naked eye it looked OK but in brutal close up, not so good! I don't mind though, I'm just pleased to be back! 

Scout IP progress by Richard Williams, on Flickr

I spent yesterday fussing over the wings, there was a lot of Mr dissolved putty and sanding involved. I think these are smooth enough to be skinned now so I hope to have them and a finished instrument panel to show you soon.

Scout reboot by Richard Williams, on Flickr

Many thanks for reading, all advice is very welcome. I am truly out of my comfort zone with this. Why, oh why did I not reach for the Airfix 1/72 hurricane instead?

Richie

[Marklo]

Looks good. If you’re skinning the wings you need to make sure the wing chord length of the core  is about 2mm less than the finished wing chord otherwise you’ll end up with thick trailing ended.

 

Also for scale WWI instrument dials I sealer by the Airscale decal sheets.

[RichieW]

Thanks Marklo, I have vague memories of making the wing chord a few mm short when this started so long ago. I just realised a problem ahead. I was going to just skin up to the point where the chord changes and then fill. This will leave the end of each wing short. I'm going to sleep on it for a few days. 

 

Looking forward to my Airscale goodies arriving. I hope it doesn't mean the parts will be greater than the sum! 😂

[Marklo]

I also find that if you use a liquid cement like Tamiya thin ( which I don’t really like) or plastic magic ( which I do) on the trailing edges and clamp them you can get a good sharp edge. 

[RichieW]

4 minutes ago, Marklo said:

I also find that if you use a liquid cement like Tamiya thin ( which I don’t really like) or plastic magic ( which I do) on the trailing edges and clamp them you can get a good sharp edge. 

 

Thanks Marklo, I really appreciate the tip. This step worried me into a 10 month absence!

[bigbadbadge]

Hi Richie 

It's great to see this back on the go again and hope you're okay fella.  I have not progressed to scratch building my own models yet , but still aim to one day, just got quite a few projects I want to get done first, that's my excuse anyway.   

Great progress and the IP looking good so far, it will be lovely when the gauges go on.

Looking forward to the next installment. 

Chris

[RichieW]

Thanks Chris, your kind words are much appreciated after a long struggle today!

 

I'm really enjoying the steep learning curve, definitely have a bash at scratch building. It's a bit daunting but great fun when something actually works! 😄

[RichieW]

Well I finished instrument panel, it's a bit rough and ready but good enough for me, what looks like a bug splat to the bottom left of the IP is my attempts at making a pulsometer from stretched clear sprue and bits of brass tube. Again a bit rough good enough for me considering I can barely see it with my awful eyes. It was fun to make.

I used Airscale decals on 2 of the dials, due to a lack of competence I only used one Airscale bezel. They are absolutely beautiful but I cocked up my measurements and forgot how cack handed I am!

 

Scratched Scout IP and Pulsometer by Richard Williams, on Flickr

 

I'm calling it a free improvisation on a Bristol Scout theme.

 

[bigbadbadge]

That looks good Richie,  you are doing a great job on the IP as you have on the fuselage and wings.  

It is all inspiring stuff to me and am lookforward to seeing it progress.

Great work 

Chris

[RichieW]

14 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

That looks good Richie,  you are doing a great job on the IP as you have on the fuselage and wings.  

It is all inspiring stuff to me and am lookforward to seeing it progress.

Great work 

Chris

That's very kind of you Chris, it's a bit of a venture into the unknown for me but it's good fun. I still have no idea how I'm going to attach the lower wings but I'll worry about once they're skinned and the cockpit is finished. Don't hold your breath though, nothing happens very quickly on my bench! 😄