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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/17/2020 at 3:30 PM, Stew Dapple said:

Looks good already Pete, and they'll probably look a bit less pronounced under the topcoat B) 

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

Thanks Stew - they actually don't look too bad. Up close they do look a tad over scale, but standing back they aren't too prominent.

 

I'm curious to see how they go with the masking and how the decals settle over them.

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Finally ready for some paint, almost. I just need to knock down a panel on the radiator that is too prominent. The ailerons needed cleaning up in the recesses for the hinges, and the hinges shortened slightly, then some plastic card shimming added, but they look okay-ish. The rudder is slightly too deep and needed a little sanding at the bottom but is otherwise a nice fit. The control horn is way over size and needs thinning - this was done by slicing the sides off with a craft knife and a new blade, then profiling with a little sanding. The rear part of the canopy is not a great fit being slightly too narrow along the bottom, and across the front, but I am spending way too much time on this kit - the stash is too large and my remaining years too few to be spending a huge amount of time on builds. The windscreen fits okay, but leaves a seam across the bottom front fairing which I filled with some water clean up filler (vellego). The mirror was poached from the new Eduard Mk I kit. Upper surfaces:

 

p?i=e2ed41f17a012786de39d3eda96214f5

 

I have finally decided this one will be P9495, DW-K. It was originally finished with black/white lower wings, so I have painted the wells appropriately. The belly light has a dab of liquid masking on it. Note the raised oval panel on the radiator - !? Jacking point also drilled in front of the tailwheel, and gun ports refined.

 

 

p?i=d45daf23c08c0bff67c607a7f77f50d2

 

This is a close up of the windscreen. You can lake out the filler in white across the bottom of the armoured plate. I have a feeling the rear section should be in silver, not green. Maybe for the next one. This also shows the rivet effect a bit better.

 

p?i=42be04c8fdd1562bb24608beecec3c42

 

 

 

 

Edited by Peter Roberts
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Excellent build Peter and worth following for all the small details you capture.

 

10 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

the stash is too large and my remaining years too few to be spending a huge amount of time on builds.

I've given up on my stash. A large part will never be built. Mainstream subjects get obsolete quickly these days. Replaced by better kits. At least this year I finished my late 90's Eduard Tempest and Tamiya F4U-1D.  I did spend a lot of time on them and glad I did. 

 

Ray

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1 hour ago, Ray_W said:

Excellent build Peter and worth following for all the small details you capture.

 

I've given up on my stash. A large part will never be built. Mainstream subjects get obsolete quickly these days. Replaced by better kits. At least this year I finished my late 90's Eduard Tempest and Tamiya F4U-1D.  I did spend a lot of time on them and glad I did. 

 

Ray

Thanks Ray - as with your Eduard build, lots of little tweaks you can choose to add that little extra 'bling'. All personal choice of course, but loving the focus at present on BoB subjects and all the little extra details I'm finding out about. :) 

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1 hour ago, Peter Roberts said:

It was originally finished with black/white lower wings, so I have painted the wells appropriately.

I'm pretty sure that the undersides of the Spitfire I'm building (slowly), R6691, was also painted black and white and I'll be doing the same with the wheel wells, the legs and the insides of the u/c covers. I've based this on what I can see of the Spitfire R6692 in the IWM maintenance film. This is an interesting detail that has emerged, for me at any rate, in this GB.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Johnson said:

I'm pretty sure that the undersides of the Spitfire I'm building (slowly), R6691, was also painted black and white and I'll be doing the same with the wheel wells, the legs and the insides of the u/c covers. I've based this on what I can see of the Spitfire R6692 in the IWM maintenance film. This is an interesting detail that has emerged, for me at any rate, in this GB.

 

From what I can see from photos, the outer wheel part of the well got repainted as well, this is a screen grab of R6692, from reel 5,  at 1.51, when it has been repainted into 'sky', note the roundel is grinning through the new paint,  and the well does not appear any lighter in tone, while the wheel hub has stayed white. 

50255159582_923c109264_h.jpgSpitfire Mk.I maintenance film Sky repaint reel 5 by losethekibble, on Flickr

 

if you at at reel 5, from 1.20 on,  while the port wing is in shadow, it has been repainted.  

Bear in mind the wells as delivered where underside colour,

48992641552_6ced809627_h.jpgSpitfire Mk.I maintenance film UC well colour by losethekibble, on Flickr

as clearly seen in the film,  so the repaint would have repainted those.   

 

One aspect not usually touched, given that the roundel is 'grinning' through  the 'sky' paint,  perhaps the black port wing should appear slightly darker?  

 

 

I have only ever seen one Spitfire photo where the well is clearly a different colour to the underside,  and that is an oddity.

this one

raf-spitfire-mk-v-sicily-774184.jpg&key=

 

from here

 

as with all these discussions,  I'm presenting observations and theories from what is visible, and what is known of painting practices, hopefully of interest and also to get other eyes looking for counter and confirmatory examples.

 

cheers

T

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3 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

From what I can see from photos, the outer wheel part of the well got repainted as well

Thanks Troy. I was thinking about the hanger shots and you have quite rightly drawn my attention to the later footage shot outdoors when the undersides had been repainted. I will take a longer look when I get to the wheel wells, hopefully before the GB closes!

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The repainting of Spitfire undersides from the Black and White to Sky is an interesting area that this GB build has thrown up.  I would go with the complete respray as most likely, but the above from Peter on the undercart assembly and wells remaining B and W gives pause for thought (and also raised by @Retired Bob as well).  The famous photo of QV -K seems to show a black well and possibly a black leg as well  (obviously in full shade however):

 

 

Spitfire-MkIa-RAF-19Sqn-QVK-Sqn-Ldr-BJE-Sandy-Lane-P9368-at-Fowlmere-1940-IWM-CH1367

 

There might also be a lack of stencils underwing, but that might be due to the quality of the photo, I remember a post from Edgar saying that the stencils would have been redone as well.

 

And all that ignores the 'controversy' around if the Sky was Sky or Light Blue or Light Grey or mixed combinations in Summer '40.

 

Fundekals posit that DW -K was possibly light blue, I was going to do my Tamiya Spitfire as DW-K, but Peter will be beating me to it.

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The RAF squadrons did not have spray equipment (I believe it was Edgar who pointed this out?) so I suspect that any front-line repaint would have been brush painted,  However a Maintenance Unit can be expected to have had proper equipment, but in either case there'd be no desire go spraying paint around inside an internal structure that has moving parts.  Or detachable/removeable parts: "Which idiot painted over these nuts?"  However there are photos of other repaints showing that maintenance stencils were not replaced: this may indeed be a difference between those done on squadron and those in an MU - it seems very unlikely that the Squadron would have any stock of spare maintenance stencils.

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24 minutes ago, Olmec Head said:

The famous photo of QV -K seems to show a black well and possibly a black leg as well  (obviously in full shade however):

 

 

Spitfire-MkIa-RAF-19Sqn-QVK-Sqn-Ldr-BJE-Sandy-Lane-P9368-at-Fowlmere-1940-IWM-CH1367

Is there a date for the photo? 

it's either after early August, when the underwing roundel came back in, or perhaps May/early June,  and the port wing is still black?

A quick check

"P9386 Ia 569 EA MIII FF 1-3-40 AMDP Airspeed trials with company test pilots 6-3-40 38MU 11-5-40 257S 18-5-40 19S 'QV-K' 3-9-40 152S 26-9-40 58OTU 23-3-41 Scottish Aviation 12-9-41"

 

So, both are possible dates. The light coloured spinner is a feature more associated with the early/Pre BoB era. 

Probably cobblers.    The outer ring of the roundel appears darker.  

9 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

The RAF squadrons did not have spray equipment (I believe it was Edgar who pointed this out?) so I suspect that any front-line repaint would have been brush painted,

But a fully equipped base would have?  

9 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

  However a Maintenance Unit can be expected to have had proper equipment, but in either case there'd be no desire go spraying paint around inside an internal structure that has moving parts.  Or detachable/removeable parts: "Which idiot painted over these nuts?"

Indeed, but. AFAIK the outer well section of the Spitfire is just a well.  no moving parts, and factory painted the underside colour.  

I'm sure there are variations. and they do tend to be in shadow, shame the sequence of R6692 being rotated is not clear, and that there is not a clear port view after the repaint.

9 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

  However there are photos of other repaints showing that maintenance stencils were not replaced: this may indeed be a difference between those done on squadron and those in an MU - it seems very unlikely that the Squadron would have any stock of spare maintenance stencils.

Or done on a main base?  R6692, filmed at RAF Northolt,  has been repainted during the filming.

The date is mid June, as the 1 Squadron Hurricane in Reel 5 shows, around 1.20,  1 squadron was only at Northolt very briefly after returning from France,  @JackG  posted up the dates in another thread, 16-23 June IIRC (I'll edit this if if i can find it)

As always, if it makes us look harder at what we have, then on occasion some new data comes to light.

@Peter Roberts. I hope the thread drift on your build is not too annoying! 

cheers

T

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Great discussion here, thank you guys for raising these points.

 

Great info here but I think Graham makes a good point re: available equipment. I am not convinced that every repaint job (from black/white to 'sky') was consistently the same, and I suspect there were variations in terms of what was and wasn't repainted from Squadron to Squadron and possibly aircraft to aircraft.

 

There is a nice shot of DW-K in the Fundekals info but unfortunately on a lovely sunny day so lots of shade covering up the lower surfaces. Without a good photo to go with, I've decided to go this route, with black/white wells but silver u/c legs and 'sky' u/c doors which will hopefully add some interest to the subject. As pointed out above, it has been suggested that 610 Sqn (and 32 Sqn) were finished in Sky Blue under surfaces, but sadly the evidence isn't presented so a case of putting your trust in Fundekals, but again, makes an interesting subject. Fundekals also go with an absence of stencils, and I'll be doing the same. When taking the photos I was struck by the glossy look of the white, then discovered I'd used (Tamiya) gloss white - doh! It will get a wash of flat clear with a little black to help age and dirty it up a little, but not too much - as seen in the maintenance video this area got cleaned out, but I'll bet not after every sortie, and would perhaps leave a slight patina over pristine white?

 

On a side note, I always thought QV-K was one of the Mk Ia's brought to 19 Squadron from a training unit to replace their Mk Ib's?

 

Appreciate all the information presented in the posts above chaps! :) Thank you

Edited by Peter Roberts
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Ever had one of those moments when you woke up in the early morning hours and thought "Oh crap", because you have had sudden clarity on something you have stuffed up? Had that this morning with DW-K. I've prepainted areas with Sky - radiator, oil cooler, around belly light - but realised this should be Sky Blue. DW-K was apparently different, along with other repainted 610 Squadron Mk I Spitfires. Of course it was - be recalcitrant!!

 

Not something I had bargained on. "Oh crap".

 

I now have to research a new subject; I have a few in mind.

 

Or repaint the interiors of the radiator/oil cooler; not sure I can do that. :( 

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11 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

Or repaint the interiors of the radiator/oil cooler; not sure I can do that.

A bit of careful brushwork?

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19 minutes ago, Johnson said:

A bit of careful brushwork?

Yep, that was what I was considering but having looked it over some areas are too hard to reach, but still visible. Looks like a new subject.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Paint and decals on. This one will now be X4179, QV-B, courtesy of Fundekals. F/Sgt George Unwin was apparently flying this aircraft on 15 September when he shot down 3 Bf109s. Fundekals provide the markings for this plane, and a photo. Unfortunately, having changed subject, I found the photo differed slightly in nose camouflage detail to the scheme I had painted so a bit of modification was required. I think this worked. When it came to the decals, the stencils came from the kit (Airfix), while the national markings, serial and codes were from Fundekals. All the decals performed flawlessly - after dipping in water, they were applied, pressed with a tissue and Mr Mark Softer washed over the top. In the case of the larger decals, a splash of Mr Mark Softer was put on the model before the decal was applied. All decals conformed very well to any surface undulations or bumps. The only concerns I have are with the large upper wing roundels; Fundekals have portrayed these as 55" when all my references suggest 56". Having built over 30 Spitfires I do notice the difference in size, but went with their portrayal. This meant having to elongate one of the wing walk lines on each wing. Another concern is the yellow of the gas detection patch - perhaps a bit too bright and yellow (?). The fin flashes are a tad too long for the Airfix fin, and didn't quite meet at the leading edge requiring some touch up with paint. And finally, the codes look a touch too light, though the colour does look quite a good match to Medium Sea Grey (!?) A small niggle also with the Airfix stencils; the little panel beneath the crank hole on the starboard cowling is portrayed as white when I think this should be brass. No doubt a cost issue. Pics:

 

p?i=8121f74502c5ef39e03cfc5c3eee26c7

 

Note the unusual position of the underwing roundels. These still need a gloss coat

 

p?i=51633979ce172287c1d14a8339512a58

 

Starboard side. The outer wing walk line needs elongating to meet the roundel. 

 

p?i=b5d1e1380ab6b69672b1a4b62a0d5aa2

 

Port side. Note the gas patch colour (?) Just needs gun patches and some final detail painting, then a flat coat before final assembly. Think I can make the deadline with this one! :) 

Edited by Peter Roberts
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Looking very good Peter, can I ask how you did the underwing gun vents please as I think the Airfix kit missed those off in both 1/72 and 1/48.  I still prefer the Airfix Spitfire to the newer Tamiya and Eduard offerings.   I hope the undercart finishes without any difficulties.

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Looking great Peter.

 

14 hours ago, Olmec Head said:

can I ask how you did the underwing gun vents please as I think the Airfix kit missed those off in both 1/72 and 1/48.

 

Also missing on the old 1/24 Airfix Spitfire! And looking back over your thread, I must remember to scribe in the flare chute while I'm working on the underside.

 

On 10/21/2020 at 6:08 AM, Peter Roberts said:

And finally, the codes look a touch too light, though the colour does look quite a good match to Medium Sea Grey (!?)

 

Always tricky but they look OK to me. I'm not a fan of the darker codes some manufactures have produced.

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18 hours ago, Olmec Head said:

Looking very good Peter, can I ask how you did the underwing gun vents please as I think the Airfix kit missed those off in both 1/72 and 1/48.  I still prefer the Airfix Spitfire to the newer Tamiya and Eduard offerings.   I hope the undercart finishes without any difficulties.

 

Thank you - the vents were made form sprue, first filed to a width and cut at an angle, then filed and carved to give an opening. I think I finished up making them a little too large, but fortunately the roundels on this subject are at the wing tips. :) 

 

The undercarriage leg fitment is coming up - I think I'll use epoxy, to get time for a bit of wiggle. The legs are a bit of a disappointment as they exclude the prominent u/c lock. I have an etch item but tossing up if I can be bothered adding it. Frankly, I'd go with the Eduard kit from what I've seen - too many dramas with this kit, and the Tamiya has some accuracy issues with the armoured plate over the fuel tank that stuffs it IMHO. Having said that, I have another Airfix Mk I in the stash that I am tempted to do as QV-H, another of Grumpy's Spitfires, just to keep them consistent, but I am not sure if I am that much of a masochist! I am quite happy with the rivet transfer detail which I think is a worthwhile addition to the Airfix kit, even if a little over scale. Good luck with build! A few more notes to come regards fit issues.

 

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2 hours ago, Johnson said:

Looking great Peter.

 

 

Also missing on the old 1/24 Airfix Spitfire! And looking back over your thread, I must remember to scribe in the flare chute while I'm working on the underside.

 

 

Always tricky but they look OK to me. I'm not a fan of the darker codes some manufactures have produced.

Thanks Charlie. I think Fundekals have got the shade quite close, but somehow it doesn't seem to match photos. Maybe my eyes, or other tricks at play (filters, sunlight, rain, wear and tear, film, etc?)

 

I have a pattern for the flare chute at 1/24 if you would like? If so, PM me your email and I'll send through a scan. Need this for the pair I have in the stash! :) 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Peter Roberts said:

I have a pattern for the flare chute at 1/24 if you would like?

Yes please! PM sent

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Managed to get all the fiddly bits done finally, and in time too! This Spitfire was only about a month old when George flew it, and from the photo seems to be quite clean so I kept wear and tear to a bit of a minimum. The pinned legs worked quite well with the use of some 5-minute epoxy, which allowed some final positioning using my Mk I eyeball. They still lack the prominent locking piece - I considered adding it from an Eduard PE set but i've just about had enough of this one. The wheels/tyres in the kit just look weird to my eye; they have a quite square profile so they were replaced by Eduard Brassin items that look the part. The main and tail wheel tyres were flattened and dirtied up. An Eduard Brassin exhaust set was used as I wasn't in the mood for working on opening these, plus I'm not very good at that, especially those fine thin outlets. The cockpit door was a Quickboost replacement, sans crow bar, and what a little gem this is. Just a beautiful moulding which I embellished a bit with some stencils from the Airfix kit. I forget the number, but they aren't mentioned in the instructions - two little red warning stencils. The seat belt was draped over the cockpit side, but needed a drop of super glue to persuade it to stay put. The mirror was chromed with a little strip of chrome decal, purchased recently from Hannants for some car models. The sliding hood was also given some treatment with the addition of the lock from an Eduard PE set, and the clear knock out panel was painted with the help of stencils from an Eduard stencil set (no. 52 from memory). The latter was initially done with clear flat but it didn't look like it was working so I added a little flat white and black bolts; it is perhaps a bit too prominent but some photos suggest it could be. Wingtip lights were painted in, the belly light refreshed and the tail light added from PVA. The spine light in the kit didn't fit and it was too small to mess with. I didn't want to start carving up an almost finished model, so I used a spine light from the old Tamiya Spitfire (you get two in these kits) which worked okay.The rudder actuating rod was attached. This plane was equipped with the later VHF radio so I removed the peg from the rudder and used a later aerial from an Airfix Vb as this aerial lacked the little triangle mounting for the wire pulley. Finally, undercarriage indicating rods were added to holes in the tops of the wings. These were little red strips that poked through the upper wing when the wheels were down, but red painted stretched sprue works ok in this scale (well, to my limited eye sight!) I made some notes during this build to capture some of the main things I found as below, in case of help for others:

 

Accuracy issues – raised Dzeus fasteners, seat back too long, panel line on upper cowl panel, electrical point on wing root, no flare chute door in belly, no heating vent outlets at outer wings, wrong profile tyres, raised line on elevator trim tabs, no u/c position indicators, thick wing trail edges, flap indicator doors raised, raised panel on radiator

 

Fit issues – fuel tank cover/forward cockpit part doesn’t fit properly, undercarriage legs give wrong geometry, lower cowl a bit too wide, belly signalling light recessed – should be flush, steps between upper and lower wings at wing root (near leading edge) and at wing tips, tail plane tabs need trimming, gap along upper tail plane joints, ailerons needed shimming and hinges shortened a little to get a good fit, large gap around carb intake, rear canopy section too narrow at front, tail wheel strut, aerial, spine light and pitot are too big for their recesses

 

Assembly tips – assemble carb intake and fairing before fitting to lower wing, carve a channel in the fuel tank cover to let it sit down over the instrument panel, assemble u/c legs and then cut and pin for later assembly of leg, thin inside of lower wing around belly light to allow it to sit flush with lower surface, thin inside of upper wings at wing tips to allow lower wing to sit properly, thin inside of wing trailing edges from ailerons to wing root for thinner trailing edge, check fit of tail wheel strut, aerial, spine light and pitot and adjust as necessary,

 

Replacements/additions: wheels/tyres and exhausts with Eduard Brassin parts, spine light from Tamiya Spitfire (first rendition), rear view mirror from new Eduard kit, cockpit door from Quickboost, instrument panel from Yahu, gun heater vents scratch built from sprue, flare chute scribed into belly, Eduard pe cockpit details and seat belts, rudder control rod from stretched sprue (aerial from Spitfire VB kit appropriate for this subject)

 

Overall I have to say the finished model does capture the look of a Mk I Spitfire very well. Parts of the build were very satisfying, and parts were very frustrating. I'm pleased with the outcome, even if I am left feeling a little exhausted. If you are a modeller who loves to tweak and fiddle with a kit as you go, you'll enjoy the challenges of this kit. If you want a quick and easy build, look somewhere else.

 

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Supermarine Spitfire Mk I, X4179, QV-B, flown by George Unwin, September 1940

 

p?i=60a43c3934624614265e1fa731a053c9

 

p?i=bd4e32e701f7a0459560973805ca5d3e

 

 

p?i=d1426631267ed73682bc7f7fa1619612

 

p?i=7b738830d921fd02b93e36d53630ebaa

 

I have lightened these photos a little and they don't really do the colours much justice unfortunately. They also don't pick up some of the finer details - sorry about that.

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  • Peter Roberts changed the title to Airfix Spitfire Mk I - FINISHED

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