EEC Lightning colours

[lesthegringo]

Hi all, I'm looking for a steer for the underside colours for the EEC Lightnings that have the single tone green upper surfaces. Photos and pictures I am finding have left me unsure as to whether the undersides were painted white or light grey, or left bare metal. Any advice given gratefully received, and for reference I use Gunze predominantly if that helps with specifying a particular hue

 

Cheers

 

Les

[Eric Mc]

Are you referring to the F2As based in West Germany in the mid 1970s? As far as I can recall they had bare metal undersides.

[71chally]

You do seem to be describing the F.2As of 19 & 92 Sqn RAFG in tactical scheme, Eric is correct, they had natural metal undersurfaces.

[Hook]

Also, there was a square natural metal panel under the wing protruding in the green portion of the fuselage:

 

https://www.raf-in-combat.com/downloads/august-2018-english-electric-lightning-f-2a-35-photos/

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[lesthegringo]

Great, thanks guys!

 

Cheers

 

Les

[stever219]

49 minutes ago, Hook said:

Also, there was a square natural metal panel under the wing protruding in the green portion of the fuselage:

 

https://www.raf-in-combat.com/downloads/august-2018-english-electric-lightning-f-2a-35-photos/

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

There are some super images there but there’s a gotcha.  Image 37 purports to show XN781/B of 19 Squadron but in fact it’s an F. Mk. 6; check the length of the cable duct below the cockpit and the ADEN installation in the front section of the ventral tank.  None of the F. Mk. 2As wore Dark Green and Dark Sea Grey camouflage.  The image was taken at Binbrook during the commemoration of the Lightning’s 25 years in service when the colours of every squadron that had operated the type were applied to a number of the jets; by that time the F. Mk. 2As had been withdrawn from service and XN781 herself had been scrapped at Leuchars.

[Hook]

46 minutes ago, stever219 said:

There are some super images there but there’s a gotcha.

Indeed. That event featured many strange combinations, and from wat I read extremely foul weather.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[stever219]

6 hours ago, Hook said:

Indeed. That event featured many strange combinations, and from wat I read extremely foul weather.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Andre I think that the image I referred to is the only one that I’ve seen that wasn’t taken in pouring rain.☔️☔️

 

[Wandering Minstrel]

 Just to throw the cat among the pigeons, XN776 at the National Museum of Flight, East Fortune, has Light Aircraft Grey undersides, thus:

 

 In the time I worked at the museum I had quite a few conversations about the grey rather than HSS undersides.

 

[tweeky]

Quote

Indeed. That event featured many strange combinations, and from wat I read extremely foul weather.

That was the last Lighting  show at Binbrook and the weather was very wet or normal for Binbrook.

 

[Hook]

On 7/21/2020 at 6:43 PM, Wandering Minstrel said:

In the time I worked at the museum I had quite a few conversations about the grey rather than HSS undersides.

Natural unpainted metal, not HSS. 😎

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Binbrooksumpy]

I spent 7 years working on Lightning Check 3 servicing at RAF Binbrook and can safely say I never saw any Lightning that had green/grey upper surface camouflage with its undersurfaces painted in any colour - always natural BARE metal. Indeed we got visiting ATC cadets to "wadpol" all areas of unpainted metal ( including inside the intake), mainly to keep the little blighers busy.  I also had many conversations with ex-Gutersloh Lightning F2A guys subsequently posted to RAF Binbrook who also stated undersides of camouflaged F2A's were natural metal (not painted at all).

Hope this helps

[Riksbar]

23 minutes ago, Binbrooksumpy said:

 Indeed we got visiting ATC cadets to "wadpol" all areas of unpainted metal ( including inside the intake), mainly to keep the little blighers busy. 

When I was at Binbrook as a 16 yr old Space Cadet the lineys had me pumping the Avpin for the starter 😮😮😮

I was obviously expendable!

[71chally]

1 hour ago, Binbrooksumpy said:

I spent 7 years working on Lightning Check 3 servicing at RAF Binbrook and can safely say I never saw any Lightning that had green/grey upper surface camouflage with its undersurfaces painted in any colour - always natural BARE metal.

I think that the only Lightnings that ever got painted undersides were the 'Air Defence Grey' scheme aircraft from the early 1980s? 

Even then portions of the belly tanks, gun packs and the fuselage hot panels could often be seen in natural metal.

 

[Filbert_Wang]

What an interesting thread and @lesthegringo thanks for starting it. 👍

 

Can I ask what thought you have given to painting natural metal? Have you found anything in the Gunze range?

 

I have been looking at the alclad metallics. Perhaps something like this over a neutral lighter primer? Alclad stainless steel

(I assume this rather than a very highly polished metallic?) 

[lesthegringo]

I use the Gunze range, and have used a number of their metallic lacquers for the majority of the underside, however for the really shiny stuff (nose intake ring, belly tank, patch under the wings) I have used the 'Molotov' brand chrome 'ink'. It's alcohol based and doesn't stand up to any handling, but if you use it as a last coat, it really looks like slightly dull chrome - and it sprays well using gunze thinners as well

 

Hope this helps!

 

Les

[Binbrooksumpy]

11 hours ago, Riksbar said:

When I was at Binbrook as a 16 yr old Space Cadet the lineys had me pumping the Avpin for the starter 😮😮😮

I was obviously expendable!

Well seeing as you got to the mess to hoover up all the snap before our shift ended, that was the intention. 😆

[Binbrooksumpy]

9 hours ago, 71chally said:

I think that the only Lightnings that ever got painted undersides were the 'Air Defence Grey' scheme aircraft from the early 1980s? 

Even then portions of the belly tanks, gun packs and the fuselage hot panels could often be seen in natural metal.

 

You're 100% correct, but as you say the belly tanks were often changed so we fitted what we received from The Tank Bay, so NM tanks seen on AD grey a/c and Light Aircraft grey on Grey/Green a/c . 

Also the LTF has a Mk6 on its strength but it's belly tank did not normally have the Aden canons fitted (a little more range) and acted as a supersonic target for tyro Lightning jocks.

And if anyone wishes to paint an unusual Lightning scheme, XR773 flew in primer yellow for air test on completion of its Check 3 in ASF. It was then painted grey/green .  Wish I had taken pictures.

Happy days

[Hook]

12 hours ago, Binbrooksumpy said:

And if anyone wishes to paint an unusual Lightning scheme, XR773 flew in primer yellow for air test on completion of its Check 3 in ASF. It was then painted grey/green .  Wish I had taken pictures.

Osprey's "EE / BAC Lightning" by Bruce Barrymore Halpenny has a photo of her in primer, p. 117.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Binbrooksumpy]

12 minutes ago, Hook said:

Osprey's "EE / BAC Lightning" by Bruce Barrymore Halpenny has a photo of her in primer, p. 117.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Thanks Andre

[DrumBum]

A perfectly timed topic as I sit down at the modelling desk ready to start spraying my F3 in LTF colors.

 

I am finding of all the kits I have built, the Lightning is the least represented on the interweb. 

 

The jet I am completeing, XR749 from the LTF has very few pics online and indeed I have found only one shot of it in service with the blue trim.

 

As best I can tell it is two tone grey top and bottom but no bare metal around the belly. But very dirty, which is good to practice my weathering. I suspect the Lightning leaked more fluid than it consumed!

 

As for the nose ring, I have always avoided bare metal before so this will be a first. I was going to try tamiya chrome silver through the airbrush but I worry that this will not really surfice and my foil application skills are really really bad.....

 

I bought some model master metalizer stainless steel and although the finish is 10/10 it is way too dark.

 

This is a first for me, pre shaded panel lines.

 

 

[PhantomBigStu]

If your doing XR749 in its grey guise @DrumBum  you can put the metalics aways aside from exhausts and nose rings, its underside and half of the fuselage in RAF Camo Grey and the top in RAF Medium Sea Grey 

[Pinback]

The one off tandem seat (as opposed to the side by seat) Lightning based in Cyprus in the late 1960's was silver and red paint.

 

Happy days!

 

 

 

[Hook]

Awww, that's so cute!

[71chally]

13 hours ago, DrumBum said:

As best I can tell it is two tone grey top and bottom but no bare metal around the belly. But very dirty, which is good to practice my weathering. I suspect the Lightning leaked more fluid than it consumed!

 

As for the nose ring, I have always avoided bare metal before so this will be a first. I was going to try tamiya chrome silver through the airbrush but I worry that this will not really surfice and my foil application skills are really really bad.....

 

This is a first for me, pre shaded panel lines.

It certainly looks like it had a grey tank etc, I think you're right to go with the panel shading and fluid staining as this great Phil Bradshaw image shows,

BAC Lightning F.3 XR749 from the LTF passes crash gate 3 at Binbrook before launching from runway 21, January 1986. by Phil Bradshaw, on Flickr

 

For the nose rings I use KitKat foil, applied over a very thin and tacky layer of polyurethane varnish.  It's dead easy to remove and do again if you mess up.

 

 

 

Love that pic from @Pinback!

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by 71chally