Dutch cam question : what looks the real camouflage beige like ? like ?

[christian Boehm]

 

 

Hello everybody

I am currently building 2 WW2 dutch 1/72 planes : Fokker D.XXI and Fokker G-1 , both from MPM. They will have both the 1940 cam : : Dk Brown undersides / Dk Brown – green – “beige” on topsides.

I have some interrogations about this “beige” color…

Some sources show a clearly yellowish ocher hue ( or even “heavy sepia”) : many profiles and even and the “replica built “ DXXI from dutch Soesterberg Museum show this strange bright color.

Other sources, quite serious, as the excellent IPMS Stockholm Study give a more “creamish-grey” ( or “greyish-cream”), which anyway looks more pale (as on the BW photos). The close but less grey observation can be found on the MPM’s box- back of the D. XXI. Per example, on the KORA decals sets for these planes, the corresponding FS595 tint  is 36360 (or 26360 because the gloss hue is not on reference). See your sample if you have one.

In Military Aircraft Monthly of July 2010 ( page 32) , an article about D.XXI profiles even gives a more grey tint , a little bit greenish and says about camouflage & markings : “some sources indicate that these 3 colors were of german origin and equate to RLM 61 , RLM 62 , RLM 63” , so the last one has to be the mysterious color…?

My opinion doesn’t join the last affirmation because the RAL german pre-war colors  are well documented and RLM 63 really looks as a pure grey , without any creamish or greenish shade

(2 Pictures following joined but may be modified by my scan ? please compare )

 

 

 

 

What is our community’s opinion? We sure have among us dutch members , not ?

I founded out that quite always the countries citizens knew the best about some things. I am personally french and could tell about the various and complicated cam colors you could find in 1940 on our planes ! So I could also tell the real truth is often impossible to find for WW2 frecnh planes.

I don’t think Dutch colors would present so many problems, so …

Thanks for helping

Christian

 

 

 

[alt-92]

36 minutes ago, christian Boehm said:

I don’t think Dutch colors would present so many problems, so …

 
whoopsie  - all kidding aside, the paints were generally Sikkens (later AKZO) made, and use that coding system. 

But the LVA did 'borrow' off the shelf - in typical dutch fashion trying to save a penny or two.
https://ipms.nl/artikelen/hints-tips-kleurtabel
some are absent but Khaki (LVA Kaki) is listed with its equivalences in that list.

It is open for debate whether they were semi-gloss or matt but the first seems more likely from photographic records.

They're listed in the D.XXI specific page as 

 

< K124> Camouflage bruin LVA; Dark brown FS~0059

< K66> Camouflage beige LVA; Light sand FS~6360*

< K89> Camouflagegroen LVA; Green gray FS~4077*

< K124> camouflagebruin (underside)

[Graham Boak]

RLM63 was not a pure grey, but did indeed have a  yellow/greenish tinge, although this did fade fairly rapidly.  Quite what this has to do with the Dutch colours is another matter.

[christian Boehm]

Hello both , hello alt-92 ( I hope it's not your age !) hello Netherland

 

thanks a lot

 

that confirms what I thought and the FS595 given codes are exactly these ones of IPMS Stockholm

 

I'm waiting to receive the Hataka paint set from a polish friend, hopping a good fit

I will post pictures when finished.

The "together projected"  MPM Fokker G1 is another type of challenge ...

christian

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Colour Coats have also done Netherlands colours at the request (and assistance) of Dutch sources, following their appearance in recent Dutch aircraft monographs.

[Peter Rozendal]

Hello Christian,

 

If you go the the Dutch IPMS page on the Fokker D.XX: https://ipms.nl/artikelen/nedmil-luchtvaart/vliegtuigen-f/vliegtuigen-f-fokker-d21 it has the colours mentioned by @alt-92 that you can click on to get to the nearest modelcolour matches Humbrol, Xtracolour, gunze and TAmiya among others are covered.

 

Good Luck with your model,

 

Peter

[christian Boehm]

hello Netherland again

thanks a lot

 

that's what I thought

Guys from the plane's country know the best

 

But I think you have to wait a little bit for the pictures

While working about the cockpit I unfortunately broke the canopy while sawing it ...

I have to get another one ; I asked MPM but after a week no answer ...

Do somebody know if they are kind about sending parts ? I told I would be ok to order something (that's the way a did once with Pavla)

 

Vacu canopies exists from Pavla I mean , not ?

 

And the engine looks bad , I didn't find another one in my bench cases ; I will buy the Kora extra resin engine

 

Doesn't matter ; I have to start the Fokker G1 as well and this will be a challenge , many faults , I know...

sleep well !

christian