TWU Hawk questions

[Seahawk]

I'm building the new Revell 1/72 Hawk as an early TWU aircraft, largely to avoid having to alter the rear fuselage.   A couple of early questions: there may be more later.

 

1.  Hawk gun pod.  The gun pod swells in the middle section.  In the initial Airfix boxing, this is a rounded bulge.  The current Airfix kit is similar but more understated.  The Revell parts show an angular rectangular, almost flat-sided swelling with quite abrupt transitions fore and aft.  Which is correct, please?  (I've had a look in walkrounds but as far as I can see all the featured aircraft are unarmed.  In most web photos the undercarriage doors obscure the contours.  There is one photo in Roger Chesneau's Aeroguide 1 but it is inconclusive - though inclining me towards the Revell interpretation, somewhat to my surprise.)

 

2.  Initially TWU Hawks' standard load was a CBLS under the port wing and a SNEB pod under the starboard but I recall someone on here saying this was discontinued because of airframe stress issues.  Whenabouts was this fit discontinued please?  And what replaced it please?  2 SNEB pods?  2 CBLS?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Giorgio N]

I had asked about the load when I built a TWU Hawk a few years ago and I was told it was the rocket pods that were discontinued from use in the mid-late '80s.

Regarding the replacement, I've seen pictures of Hawks in grey/green with 2 CBLS but I don't know if this was a typical load.

 

Regarding the pod, the area where the pod "swells" at the front is indeed quite angular. however I wouldn't call the swelling as rectangular, in plan view the area following the initial widening is quite rounded. I don't have the Revell kit yet (or better, not the latest box with the gun pod) so can't compare it directly to pictures. The pod is well visible in some air-to-air pictures within the book "Hawk Comes of Age", published by the RAF Benevulent Fund (that while not up-to-date, is a very nice book)

[Dave Fleming]

13 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

The pod is well visible in some air-to-air pictures within the book "Hawk Comes of Age", published by the RAF Benevulent Fund (that while not up-to-date, is a very nice book)

 

We really need an updated Hawk book!

 

There are some nice pics in the Chris Allan 'Fast jets' book of both green/grey and grey Hawks with the gun pod. The camo ones have no other weapons on the pylons and the grey ones have inert AIM9s (or launch rails)

 

@Seahawk Can you share a pic of the Revell pod? It's probably easier to say 'that looks right' than try and describe what the pod looks like!! 🙂

Edited July 16, 2020 by Dave Fleming

[junglierating]

Hmm take a look at phots of SHARs same gun ,similar pod and I would agree with Giorgio it swells in a rounded manner in the middle....simply because that is where the feed mech and ejector etc are fiitted ...to the front the barrel and blast suppresor and to the aft the ammunition tank 

Edited July 16, 2020 by junglierating

[tweeky]

twas the same gun 30mm Aden cannon

Edited July 16, 2020 by tweeky

[junglierating]

19 minutes ago, tweeky said:

twas the same gun 30mm Aden cannon

Well yes but i have a feeling the pods were different...port and stbd for starters ejector and link shoot were handed.😁

[tweeky]

Yeah all tho they dropped to one gun and an ecm pod in the other pod for the Falkland's war ib seam to remember or was that the GR3?

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by tweeky

[Des]

5 hours ago, tweeky said:

Yeah all tho they dropped to one gun and an ecm pod in the other pod for the Falkland's war ib seam to remember or was that the GR3?

 

'Blue Eric' ECM Pod ,from what I have read GR.3 only and even then it was not carried by all in the Falklands as only a few of the aircraft were wired for it.

[tweeky]

3 hours ago, Des said:

'Blue Eric' ECM Pod ,from what I have read GR.3 only and even then it was not carried by all in the Falklands as only a few of the aircraft were wired for it.

There was a massive push Working weekends etc to get the GR3 ready to deploy wiring for sidewinders etc  plus the actual clearance flights and live firings too.

Edited July 17, 2020 by tweeky

[Seahawk]

17 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

 

@Seahawk Can you share a pic of the Revell pod? It's probably easier to say 'that looks right' than try and describe what the pod looks like!! 🙂

It’s the obvious thing to do, isn’t it!  I’ll try and get a comparative photo of Airfix Mk 1, Airfix Mk.2 and Revell pods posted.  And maybe an Italeri one as well.

[phantomphixxer]

The SNEB pods had been discontinued by the time I arrived at Chivenor (late 87).  The stresses imposed by firing them (rocket blast?) had caused cracking in the mainplane. To inspect & monitor the cracking, a "T" shaped area about 3"across & 4" down was stripped to bare metal then varnished. This allowed the cracks to be monitored without having to repeatedly strip then repaint the area. As memory serves, this was about 6" back from the leading edge, between the first & second leading edge triangular vortex generators. These were also bare metal. The cracks were logged in the A/C Form 700 & routinely checked. This was definitely on the camo T1A's & on the Air Defence Grey T1A's as well.

If you are are going for super accuracy, you might want to add a reinforcement plate to the rear of the baggage door under the cockpit, in front of the gun pod. Muzzle blast/shock waves. This was a continuing fix in the servicing hangar. 

I tried to find some pics but no joy. If I do find some, I will add them later.

Have fun!

 

[theplasticsurgeon]

Seahawk has asked me to post this photo of his gunpods.

He will be along in a few minutes to talk around them.

[Seahawk]

"Seahawk has asked me to post this photo of his gunpods."

 

Sounds almost indecent when he puts it like that.  Thanks to @theplasticsurgeon, a true gent.

 

What you see there are the gun pods, from top to bottom, for the original Airfix Hawk, the more recent, revised Airfix version (AX03085), the Italeri Hawk T.1/61/66 (IT0186) and the recently released Revell 04970 Hawk T.1, loosely aligned by the front of the pod.  The original Airfix pod has a fairly shapely but still gentle bulge.  The new AX Hawk is similar but with a less defined bulge and the IT one is less defined again.  Then we have the latest RV pod with its very pronounced and rather slab-sided bulge.  (Note also BTW how shallow the RV one is to the rear.)

 

So, which do Those Who Know, especially those with hands-on experience of the real thing, judge  to be the best representation of the real thing?

 

(PS Before someone asks, the AX Mk.1 pod is 47mm long, the AX Mk.2 42.5 mm, the IT 46.5mm and the RV 47mm.  I have compared with the drawings in the Linewrights book but the latter appear to be have been reproduced in a scale larger than 1/72.  I seem to remember some nice drawings in the first issue of the old Planes magazine back in the 80s.) 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Seahawk

[st george]

To me the top one looks the most accurate for the shape.

[Dave Fleming]

The Revell one is not right, it's not that angular. 

[Dave Fleming]

Don't know if you are on Facebook, but there was a post on the Official Fighter Control Group today of some nice shots of TWU Hawks in the 80-84 period. A couple have the early rear end with the curve and short fin. Weapons vary between twing.AIMs9s, just the missile rails, Twin CBLS and nothing at all

 

This may or may not work:

 

[Seahawk]

Lovely photo of a TWU Hawk in exactly the right period, full of useful detail.  I don't often wander into that dark bourn which is Facebook but I'll make an exception in this case.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Seahawk

[Antti_K]

Hello Seahawk,

 

comparing the real thing against the photo theplasticsurgeon posted earlier, the one at the top looks best. No contest really.

 

I checked some photos that were taken at RAF Brawdy during the summer of 1980 and it seems that a CBLS was carried under the port wing, gun pod on the fuselage center station and a rocket pod under the starboard wing.

 

Some aircraft carry 79 Squadron bars, some carry only the TWU crest on the sides of the nose and all aircraft carry white, three digit numbers on the fin. Numbers 188, 198, 222 and 261 were camouflaged and visible in the photos. Rather many Hawks on the flight line are clean; they aren't carrying external stores.

 

Cheers,

Antti

[Seahawk]

On 7/23/2020 at 9:55 AM, Antti_K said:

comparing the real thing against the photo theplasticsurgeon posted earlier, the one at the top looks best. No contest really.

That's the conclusion I've come to from input here and some excellent photos from @st george.  Actually it looks as if even the Airfix Mk.1 gunpod slightly underestimates the curvaceousness of the bulge.  For me the Italeri gunpod is livable with. especially if partly hidden behind the undercarriage doors.  Ditto, but less so, the Airfix Mk.2 though it's a bit short.  The Revell one is pretty horrible: angular slab-sided bulges and too shallow at the rear.  For that reason I think my route to the best 1/72 Hawk T.1 is to fit out the cheaper 4921 Red Arrows Hawk boxing (£7.99 v £9.99) with spare weapons from old Airfix Hawks.  Unless I particularly wanted the transfer sheet (Cartograph, very nice, perfect register).  BTW for an injection-moulded kit the Revell cockpit is very nice.

 

Thanks everyone for your input.

[TeeELL]

This is a late response - sorry.  I did the TAC Weapons course at RAF Chivenor in the summer of 82, SNEB had definitely been removed from the syllabus - much to our disappointment!