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Stowage on tanks


nheather
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I see this frequently, in particular I’m currently building a Tamiya Sherman 105mm which comes with an extremely generous selection of boxes, crates, drums, ammo cases, backpacks, helmets.  The instructions shows these liberally scattered over the engine deck and and resting on the shelves on the front and rear of the hull.

 

They certainly do add some interest but I can’t help thinking that when this tank drives off it will leave a trail of paraphernalia behind it.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel 

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Many otherwise excellent models are spoiled by stowage with no visible means of support.  In some places like the M4 glacis things will stay in place by gravity against a plank held across the nose between the trackguards.  This is commonly seen in photos.  On the rear deck, commonly seen piled with stowage on Shermans, everything needs to be roped down or it will fall off as you suggest.  Sometimes under a tarp, but not always.  Likewise for the blanket rack on the hull rear.  Many British Shermans used upturned sand shield ends welded to the rear deck corners as stowage racks.  M4A2 and A3 had grilles that could not be obstructed.  Likewise the covered intake on the M4 and A1 and the small forward grille on the A4, although the latter was right under the turret bustle.

 

Around the turret some but not all Shermans were fitted with Foootman Loops on which stowage could be hung.  These were just little loops of metal rod a couple of inches log.  There were some of these on the hull top too.  Tool stowage straps and brackets were often used to tie down more stowage.

 

And then there is the comon sense of what is stowed.  No sensible tank crew will stow main gun ammunition or fuel on their vehicle as that invites disaster, although small arms ammunition was often carried.  105mm Shermans often towed an ammunition trailer as they were mostly used as SP artillery rather than assault guns, although the USMC did use them as assault guns in the PTO as the 105mm round was much more effective than the 75mm against Japanese bunkers.  Likewise you are unlikely to see personal water bottles, pistol holsters, crew personal weapons or some of the other items often included in stowage sets.  US tank crews did not wear the M1 steel helmet, although commanders often acquired them.  British tank crews were issued with the brimmed helmet but did not wear them as they were impractical inside the vehicle, and so are often seen hung outside.

 

As ever, the best reference is to do some Google surfing and find something to imitate.

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I'm with you, on that, Das Abtailung. So many models are showing, that those modellers never-ever had to strap anything to go any distance over the rough terrain, and would not even be good for a "so-so" country road. And the crew with a half of a brain would cover their "essentials" with some tarp, don't you think?

Funny thing is comparing the amount of stuff on Allied and Russian armour.

Everybody - just check your photos :-)

Happy glueing!

Zig

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It is the same with chipping, rust and weathering.

Some builds look like their vehicles have been sitting in a junkyard for decades instead of having been in use for a month or 2, yet I have yet to see a frontline soldier as dirty as the real thing after that same amount of time.

 

Let's just call it artistic license.

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10 hours ago, Tojo72 said:

Some model their vehicles with so much stowage they look like the Beverly Hillbillies truck.

"American TV show from 60's"

More like the Army Surplus Special from Wacky Races!

 

And yes, I remember the Beverly Hillbillies

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On the other hand I was always wondering, where those guys kept "nice uniforms" in, to be able to entertain French ladies during the rest days? 😍

My saved drawing shows all sort of things going into the stowage bins of various tanks (ie - 3 greatcoats). Nothing about spare underpants..

BTW. Does anybody have a a good info/drawing for stowage boxes on Firefly Ic?

Box for Vc does not apply there.

There was "something" on the port side rear mudguard / rear deck in those photos I've seen. Like a "slanted" box.

Z

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As I said, it was quite common British practice to take the back sections of the sand shields and attach them to the rear upper hull to make stowage "bins".  Like this below - but note differing angles.  I imagine this is what you saw.  Many Sherman kits include these parts and there are etched brass alternatives, but they are easily made from plastic card.  Value Gear do some as resin blocks with stowage, but their sandshields are rather too thick.

 

The square bracket on the rear in the left hand photo is for a rectangular funnel.  I have seen vertical planks across the back of the engine deck, held on by metal strips attached to the securing bolts along the top edge of the rear plate.

 

The subject has been covered on this forum before, here: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235035232-4th-armored-brigade-shermans/

 

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At first they were attached like this below, but putting them up on the deck as above became the norm.  Very occasionally you do see the front curved sand shield sections being used instead.

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Edited by Das Abteilung
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The 'nice uniforms' were never carried on the tanks. Crews kept their kitbags in rear echelon vehicles - trucks that belonged to the unit but stayed behind the lines. The crews only carried what was essential to keep themselves and their vehicle 'operational'. That might include food, tools, some small creature comforts and spare working clothes but not off-duty or smarter uniforms. The interpretation of what was considered 'essential' did of course vary from crew to crew and also depended on what the unit itself mandated or prohibited.

 

John

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Thanks John for that clarification. I "sort-of" thought, that may be the option. They must be a "trusting lot" those days.

Pics from Das Abtailung above are showing much less of possessions, that your average tank model in 1:35, and confirming my approach:

You cover your stuff with some tarp. Wouldn't you? But we are talking about "artistic license" now.                                                                           

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Slightly veering off of the original topic, but as well as the usual items seen as stowage on the back of tanks, don't forget that crews quite often "liberated" stuff such as wine in crates, bicycles, baskets etc. But again, they need to be secured on the back of the tank. After all, if you've just got your hands on a few bottles of Chateau Rothschild, you don't want to see them lying shattered in the road!

 

John.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I agree that some kits have way too much stowage lying loose on the back. That is just not practical. I have however seen good depictions with stowage properly "tied down" which makes much more sense. Perhaps someone could point us in the right direction for proper scale model "rope" that looks right.

I also agree  about rusting. I think some modellers get carried away and want to show off their skills in rusting military vehicles. In real life, paintwork takes a while to rust unless it's chipped and most military vehicles would not be in service long enough to rust as much as some examples I have seen. Same with submarines. The rust would appear above the water line as it takes very much longer for rust to form under water. 

Edited by Sunna
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45 minutes ago, Sunna said:

I agree that some kits have way too much stowage lying loose on the back. That is just not practical. I have however seen good depictions with stowage properly "tied down" which makes much more sense. Perhaps someone could point us in the right direction for proper scale model "rope" that looks right.

A also agree  about rusting. I think some modellers get carried away and want to show off their skills in rusting military vehicles. In real life, paintwork takes a while to rust unless it's chipped and most military vehicles would not be in service long enough to rust as much as some examples I have seen. Same with submarines. The rust would appear above the water line as it takes very much longer for rust to form under water. 

This stuff...... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2M-Griffin-100-Natural-White-Silk-String-Cord-Thread-Stringing-Pearls-Beads/253497824617?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=552683245277&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

used here on the front bumper 

 

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Edited by M3talpig
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I used to work in a large quarry where the plant machinery would get very harsh treatment. You would not see much rust at all on the trucks and excavators. We had several very old pieces of plant which would show rusting but how many Sherman or Tiger tanks would serve that long?

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36 minutes ago, M3talpig said:

Now yer talkin'. That is a beautiful example of a Willys jeep tastefully done with the less is more attitude.

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10 minutes ago, Sunna said:

Now yer talkin'. That is a beautiful example of a Willys jeep tastefully done with the less is more attitude.

Beautiful model, and I agree the stowage improves it but it makes my point.

 

What is going to keep that tarpaulin on the bonnet/hood.

 

And the helmet and the satchel.

 

I guess you could argue the jeep is parked up and the driver have just left their helmet and satchel on the dash, but the tarpaulin, not sure about that.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

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1 hour ago, M3talpig said:

Have to get some of this.  The link goes to the 0.47mm stuff - is that the best size for 1:35?  That would make it around 16mm true size.  Is that a correct true size or is it something that looks better over scale?
 

Forgive me, I have no idea how thick ropes would be.
 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

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1 hour ago, nheather said:

Beautiful model, and I agree the stowage improves it but it makes my point.

 

What is going to keep that tarpaulin on the bonnet/hood.

 

And the helmet and the satchel.

 

I guess you could argue the jeep is parked up and the driver have just left their helmet and satchel on the dash, but the tarpaulin, not sure about that.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

its from this diorama and it is parked and the figure is indeed without helmet and the map case is out because there either routing traffic or just checking their position...the tarp on the bonnet is a screen cover and the real thing is an envelope for the windscreen so is pulled over and the weight of the screen hold them in place.

The driver will be stood just to the left of the jeep and waving to the crew of the sherman as they pass

you will notice also the individual c-ration box on the seat next to the driver indicating he was probably eating lunch as the convoy passed

I also made your point by ensuring the backpacks on the side of the jeep do in fact have straps which are wrapped around the roof bars 

 

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Thread here should you be interested   

 

Edited by M3talpig
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3 hours ago, M3talpig said:

Steve, is that stuff "fuzz" free. It would be very useful as the rope that I use at the moment, I have to run through some PVA glue to make the hairs lie flat.

 

John.

 

PS. How did you get on with Peddinghaus?

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36 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

Steve, is that stuff "fuzz" free.

pure silk so yes mate completely fuzz free and very very authentic looking...i dyed mine with yellow ochre oil and a little white spirit absolutely scale rope ...the size linked is good for light towing rope (ideal for willys jeep)or tie down rope on tanks.

 

Edited by M3talpig
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36 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

PS. How did you get on with Peddinghaus?

Will be mailing them this week ...will let you know if i get a reply.....have you got your decals yet John

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